9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord ... hmmmmm ... Merc_... are you a disinformationist?

... hmmmmm ... Now we've got the admin directly asking me if I am a spook. Nope, I'm just a guy with eyes, ears, a brain, and a high enough iq to know what I am seeing and what happened is not right. It's why SOOOOOOOOOO many people question it and investigate it. All we want is answers. Show us the boeing. Can all those people be 'disinformationists'? No. They just know what they are seeing is not right. The behavior is suspicious. The motive is there. I hope I am wrong. But it doesn't look like it does it. You can try and convince other people of what they are seeing. But people aren't backing down. And niether am I.

Originally posted by Merc_the_Perp He left it on a highway, not a street Let's really see what happened...the photographic evidence: Click here for enlarged image Click here to see enlarged area and the cab that was moved. SO WHY IS THE TAXI MOVED???? Probably for the photo oppoutunity. Maybe to make the official account more believable in regards to Cab position. Here you can see the guard rail, no stonewall. You can see it even more when the camera man pans back, shown in the beginning of Loose Change 2: . . . Is it just me, or does anyone else detect a pattern here?

Yeah, the pattern is called "selective editing" Take a good look at that second photo, the one with the generator labeled on it. Look at the very far left edge of the picture. Do you see the beginning of the bridge abutment wall? Go back to these images that you linked: Click here for enlarged image Click here to see enlarged area and the cab that was moved. The cab was not moved. The angles between the two shots are different. The tree in the background of the first picture is the same one that is above the fire engine of the second picture. You can see both of the signs in both pictures. Both pictures appear to have been taken with powerful telephoto lenses. The extreme foreshortening of the depth of field is a characteristic of this type of lens. another view

wow. gooooooood research! i'm so glad you managed to survive the first couple days without getting excommunicated. you RAWK, dude!

Originally posted by HowardRoark Yeah, the pattern is called "selective editing"

very good, howard. i notice how you selectively ignored that all that famous eyewitness testimony was 'coincidentally' from 'republicans' and others who would support the pnac world domination agenda.

Originally posted by billybob

Originally posted by HowardRoark Yeah, the pattern is called "selective editing"

very good, howard. i notice how you selectively ignored that all that famous eyewitness testimony was 'coincidentally' from 'republicans' and others who would support the pnac world domination agenda.

No I was just addressing one issue of an overly long post. The photos were selectively editied to give the impression that the cab was moved, when it was not.

Originally posted by HowardRoark No I was just addressing one issue of an overly long post. The photos were selectively editied to give the impression that the cab was moved, when it was not.

Absolutely 100% incorrect. That cab was moved. There was no selective editing. Not one bit. It is clear when you examine the cab, should actually be BEHIND THE BUSHES. There is no angular tricks. It is plain and simple. That cab was moved. You must be missing something, because most people did when they first looked at it. Look at it again. You are seriously mistaken. Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link. [edit on 16/1/2006 by Mirthful Me]

Foreshortening. If you take a photograph of a number of widely spaced objects using a long telephoto lens you’ll notice that the objects seem to be crammed together in the final photograph. This change in perspective is called foreshortening of distance. A common example of this is a shot of cars on a busy road, which all look bunched together. A common cliché variant in 1970s movies was the ever-popular Hollywood street photo, in which lines of receding palm trees, all apparently crammed together because of foreshortening, vanish in the heat haze beneath the Hollywood sign. cf. focal length, telephoto lens. only problem is this is the exact opposite thing that happened. This would be "forelengthening". The cab was moved. No way around it.

Now address the damage to the cab or lack thereof. And his impossible account of what happened. [edit on 17-1-2006 by Merc_the_Perp]

Originally posted by Merc_the_Perp

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord Okay... I've changed it to our second most popular thread... one that inspired a "real spook" to join and attempt to debunk. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now we've got the admin/owner indirectly calling me a spook. comedy.

No, corncob - he wasn't referring to you. He was referring to the "real spook" that joined to post a rebuttal to that thread... www.abovetopsecret.com... I'm noticing that not only are you really defensive and troll-like, but you're extremely self-centered. hmmm.. I'm trying to remember what that all fits into...p-something. Don't worry, I'll think of it.

Originally posted by Valhall No, corncob - he wasn't referring to you. He was referring to the "real spook" that joined to post a rebuttal to that thread... www.abovetopsecret.com... I'm noticing that not only are you really defensive and troll-like, but you're extremely self-centered. hmmm.. I'm trying to remember what that all fits into...p-something. Don't worry, I'll think of it.

Gloves are off again... Oh look at the mature moderator going against exactly what I was told not to do. Corn cob? Get a life you X-files trekkie reject. Look at who is the goddamned troll. First response from you and it's dripping in troll saliva. I get it. Push my buttons until you deem it necessary to ban me. Nice. And look at you morons. "Real spooks". Please tell me what a "real spook" is. What a joke. Now you guys know you've got "real spooks" oooooh. Exciting. Just like Mulder and Scully. Look, when you figure out what's really pissing you off( probably that I've dropped more relevant information about the Pentagon than you guys have done in the history of this thread), step away from your mega-transistor alien communicator, get out of the trailer, stretch, and take a walk through the desert and work it out. That Area 51 air does a body good. Mmmkay? I'm ready for my banning Mistress. [edit on 17-1-2006 by Merc_the_Perp]

You've been given TWO opportunities to click a link and - gawd forbid - READ - you can't, can you? You still haven't comprehended anything that has been said to you. Put some more pictures up because that's the level you're at, apparently. here's your third try www.abovetopsecret.com... CLICK THE LINK! If you need help reading, or even understanding what you are reading - please feel free to contact any of the most helpful mods on this board - EXCEPT ME! because I've decided you're a hopeless cause! You apparently do real well with pictures, so if you need some one to convert this message to a click and sniff picture, please feel free to let us know. I know some people who can help you... ** [edit on 1-17-2006 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Merc_the_Perp Now address the damage to the cab or lack thereof. And his impossible account of what happened. [edit on 17-1-2006 by Merc_the_Perp]

The windshield was smashed. What else do you want? If you look at both pics, the cab was not moved. Like I said, the extreme telephoto makes the signs and bridge abutments look a lot closer then they really are in the first photo where they line up behind each other. The second photo shows the actual distance between the objects.

Originally posted by Valhall No, corncob - he wasn't referring to you. He was referring to the "real spook" that joined to post a rebuttal to that thread...

Maybe a bit off-topic, but I don't think a "real spook" would tell you up front that he works for a government office. Sort of counter-productive there; a sort of conflict of interests for a genuine agent. You wouldn't realize a real agent being here except for his posting habits and particularly cunning way of presenting or hiding or distracting information. But then you'd have to pay extra good attention, know the material like the back of your hand, objectively know what makes sense and what doesn't, and maybe even have a little background in psychology if you want to take the extra step. This is the biggest conspiracy site on the net, is it not? Even without having experienced decepting posting habits first-hand on this board, use some common sense. If this is the biggest conspiracy board on the net, and they need their bases covered, which board are they most likely to come to if they have to pick just one? Eh? You would have to either deny the existance of such programs or else think they have their heads up their butts to believe there are not agents whose only function is to deceive you here. But it's getting off-topic.

Originally posted by Merc_the_Perp Look, when you figure out what's really pissing you off( probably that I've dropped more relevant information about the Pentagon than you guys have done in the history of this thread), step away from your mega-transistor alien communicator, get out of the trailer, stretch, and take a walk throught the desert and work it out. That Area 51 air does a body good. Mmmkay?

lmao Dude, what is it with you and your wanting to be some sort of martyr? I have to admire the gonads, but it makes me sad. ;( PS - Literally laughing out loud at the irony of Howard posting amidst discussions of "real spooks" - LOL [edit on 17-1-2006 by bsbray11]

I am SO glad he was ready for his banning. At least he won't be wearing the Just Got Caught Pumping The Neighbor's Cat look when he comes trolling back this way.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by Valhall No, corncob - he wasn't referring to you. He was referring to the "real spook" that joined to post a rebuttal to that thread...

Maybe a bit off-topic, but I don't think a "real spook" would tell you up front that he works for a government office. Sort of counter-productive there; a sort of conflict of interests for a genuine agent.

Where the heck were you through it all? After all, you're one of the "they did it all" group. You should pay better attention. He changed his bio on the web the day before he posted here. He was a specialist in bio-chem warfare. He put himself off as nothing more than a FEMA/OEMA worker. And he came here to debunk a thread against the agency he checked out to work for. You're proving that when the dream comes true - you can actually screw it up by both not paying attention, and then rejecting it when it happens - right in your own living room. *sigh* Your whole lot confuses me.

Originally posted by Valhall Where the heck were you through it all? After all, you're one of the "they did it all" group. You should pay better attention. He changed his bio on the web the day before he posted here. He was a specialist in bio-chem warfare. He put himself off as nothing more than a FEMA/OEMA worker. And he came here to debunk a thread against the agency he checked out to work for.

Big whoop. I don't see how you can seriously believe a pro would be that sloppy, and I'm certain that if an agency put him behind it, you wouldn't be able to trace him to anything indicative of a government establishment. The whole point is to come across as a normal individual! That includes look-ups and any way to identify anything about who they really are! I seriously doubt they would just go willy nilly sending ex-military dudes onto sites with no training or etc. so that they could be nailed so easily, unless to distract from actual agents, and I even doubt that. That he was ever shown to be connected with any government agencies shows that he wasn't a "spook."

You're proving that when the dream comes true - you can actually screw it up by both not paying attention, and then rejecting it when it happens - right in your own living room. *sigh* Your whole lot confuses me.

What "dream" would come true for me with a disinfo agent coming here? What makes you think I ENJOY pointing out this kind of poo? I hope you're just on a bad trip from Merc, because that remark seriously pisses me off and I don't much appreciate it at all. I didn't say a single disrespectful thing to you in that post. I was simply pointing out that real agents aren't going to wander on the site in some drunken fashion without covering their tracks. You have one dancing in your face right now and can't tell the difference, and then start on how I would just *LOVE* to prove my crazy-assed theories right (what a dream for a loser like me!!), but am too damned stupid to! Like I said, I hope you're just on a bad trip from Merc. And I think it's disgusting that you get special priveleges here, as evidenced by the apparent fact that nothing results from your failure to abide by the same terms that Merc was having so much trouble with.

2.) You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link. [edit on 17/1/2006 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by bsbray11 I hope you're just on a bad trip from Merc, because that remark seriously pisses me off and I don't much appreciate it at all. I didn't say a single disrespectful thing to you in that post. I was simply pointing out that real agents aren't going to wander on the site in some drunken fashion without covering their tracks. You have one dancing in your face right now and can't tell the difference, and then start on how I would just *LOVE* to prove my crazy-assed theories right (what a dream for a loser like me!!), but am too damned stupid to!

And who's that then? Howard? So anyone that disagrees with your view or finds evidence going against what you want to believe is automatically an Agent are they? It doesn't occur to you that maybe, just maybe, some people hold a different opinon to you and actually have a good reason for it? I'm getting pretty sick of this dumb labeling of people just because they hold a different view, it because of an attitude like that I started becoming so bitter in the first place. Personally I'm pretty sick of idiots referring to me as an agent just because it's in my screen name or because I find aspects of some of the alternative theories preposterous. Next minute you'll be saying you fell for the photo crap that Merc posted. Another shining example of how people will allow what they see to be changed in order to fit with their ideas. As for the ex-military guy, as you say I doubt he was supposed to be an undercover agent, it was far to sloppy. But there is a possibility he was told to come on here. The oddest thing was the way his biography was changed from a rather detailed breakdown of his war efforts into one or two lines. Sloppy for professionals but still odd behaviour, personally I saw his history as a positive thing, but he didn't seem to think people would. But regardless of that, the point still stands that a highly professional and decorated individual connected with FEMA and the camp in question actually saw fit to alter all his online details and actually come on ATS to rebut an article on here written by Val, that in itself is something. As for looking for agents, I personally think that there are more likely candidates in people like Merc, and a couple of other long-term members who shout from the conspiracy side of the fence. I can't believe anyone apparantly so intelligent and committed to the 9/11 truth movement will keep everyone busy after 5 years talking about technicalities which cannot be proved when there are more serious matters to be discussed. I think the constant accusing of people being agents is part of a smoke screen to conceal their own identities and true motivations.... Food for thought.. "Merc_the_Perp BANNED MEMBER" Beautiful............

Originally posted by AgentSmith

Originally posted by bsbray11 I hope you're just on a bad trip from Merc, because that remark seriously pisses me off and I don't much appreciate it at all. I didn't say a single disrespectful thing to you in that post. I was simply pointing out that real agents aren't going to wander on the site in some drunken fashion without covering their tracks. You have one dancing in your face right now and can't tell the difference, and then start on how I would just *LOVE* to prove my crazy-assed theories right (what a dream for a loser like me!!), but am too damned stupid to!

And who's that then? Howard? So anyone that disagrees with your view or finds evidence going against what you want to believe is automatically an Agent are they?

Why, yes. That's exactly what I said. Everyone that disagrees with me is an agent. I especially like how you put that quote there before saying that, to show exactly that I said just that.

Personally I'm pretty sick of idiots referring to me as an agent just because it's in my screen name or because I find aspects of some of the alternative theories preposterous.

Well maybe you should bring that up with them and not me. I don't appreciate the association.

As for the ex-military guy, as you say I doubt he was supposed to be an undercover agent, it was far to sloppy. But there is a possibility he was told to come on here. The oddest thing was the way his biography was changed from a rather detailed breakdown of his war efforts into one or two lines. Sloppy for professionals but still odd behaviour, personally I saw his history as a positive thing, but he didn't seem to think people would. But regardless of that, the point still stands that a highly professional and decorated individual connected with FEMA and the camp in question actually saw fit to alter all his online details and actually come on ATS to rebut an article on here written by Val, that in itself is something.

Something on the level of a lone nut coming on here and posting, yes.

As for looking for agents, I personally think that there are more likely candidates in people like Merc, and a couple of other long-term members who shout from the conspiracy side of the fence. I can't believe anyone apparantly so intelligent and committed to the 9/11 truth movement will keep everyone busy after 5 years talking about technicalities which cannot be proved when there are more serious matters to be discussed.

Well maybe you can shed some light on who's behind the disinformation program that's against the American populace despite the federal government. Is it the Soviets? Does al Qaeda have a disinfo program up and running? Maybe with some help from the CIA, but then that would rather defeat the whole argument that the government wasn't in on 9/11.

I think the constant accusing of people being agents is part of a smoke screen to conceal their own identities and true motivations.... Food for thought..

The only person I'm accusing of being an agent is HowardRoark, and not as an attack, but rather matter-of-factly. Actually, when I first joined ATS, one of the first things I was told in private discourse with a certain other, very respected member here is that there was a strong suspicion that something with Howard was especially dishonest. As an example I can give you, Howard still plays to not understand the very arguments he's been trying to debunk for God-knows-how-long as the circle goes around each time. The argument that the towers fell symmetrically while ejecting debris in an even radial fashion within a center of gravity within the building has been dissected by Mr. Roark a number of times to make it seem as though we demo theorists contradict ourselves, along the lines of "how can the buildings fall into their own footprints AND most of the debris be ejected outwards?" Of course the argument does not contradict itself in the least, as the center of gravity is within the footprint and no one is claiming that the majority of the mass landed within it. Now I hope you will agree that this is not fair play. Neither can it be claimed that Howard does not properly understand the argument, because, as I've said, it's been clarified for him time and again every time the circle goes around, and he's probably even addressed the point from another light to show his understanding of it. I'm sure you realize how intelligent he comes across. It's not mistake that he continually misses the point and plays ignorant. If you'd like, I can go through his posts and point out such behavior as we've seen it from our "side" for months. I've seen him post as if he were outraged at commercialization of the Constitution, by Amazon.com charging money for a copy of it (which of course suggests that he's a deeply patriotic, or at least moral person, no?), but then in a later he would refer to the Vice President as "Cheany." That comes from being insincere, and again, I could go through and find all sorts of these types of things that just make you go "huh??" He'll commonly create a line of inquiry that leads a topic right away from where it was originally headed, such as when someone questioned whether or not either Flight 11 or 175 actually hit the WTC, and Howard cleverly responded "Looks like a 767 to me," with a photo to accompany. And you'll hardly ever catch him responding to something to which he can't, or responding to any posts that call out misleading or outright false information. He once claimed that the smoke in the WTC did not darken as time went on. In a subsequent post I showed conclusively that this was not the case and that Howard had lied outright. But Howard did not respond. This is typical; it goes on all the time and you never notice it because you're on the other side of the fence, so to speak. It's a combination of all sorts of misleading and selective responses and subtle psychology and etc. Whether or not he is actually an agent, this behavior would nonetheless be quite becoming of an agent. And again - this IS NOT meant as an attack! These are just my observations, as well as the observations of many others that have been debating Howard. I'll reserve names, but off the top of my head, including myself, I can think of six people that I've had communications with that agree with this idea. And Smith, you'll be glad to know that none of them think you are an agent. It's actually become common knowledge between a number of us, as I've discovered through U2U's with various people on our "side" that Howard is an unusual exception to the masses of people that reply to the 9/11 conspiracy threads from a view of the official side. It isn't a matter of just disagreeing. It's a matter of leading lines of questions down dark alleys, so to speak, and subtle uses of psychology that provoke one answer that is in a totally opposite direction than a more relevant one, etc. I've studied psychology. Howard uses it, among other tactics as you can find listed through Google searches, and I suspect he knows exactly what he's doing. Regardless - his behavior is absolutely uncanny and consistent and he's much too intelligent to not know what he's doing, and he knows the material too well, and thus my suspicion. And that is, again, a rather common, though little spoken-of, suspicion here on this part of ATS. I hope that clears things up a bit, as to exactly what criteria I go by for making such claims. I obviously was not referring to you, Smith.

Why BSB, I'm flattered that you think so highly of me. Although how you get that I am somehow dishonest because I misspelled the Vice President's name is beyond me.

I'm so jealous man, I need to try harder.. Still, at least it looks like my cover is safe still.. DOH! I shouldn't have said that.... I can't speak for Howard, but having observed his posts over the last couple of years, his behaviour could easily be interpreted as someone who has got fed up with ignorance, insults and is frustrated with spending hours conducting detailed research only to have some upstart come along and poo-poo it without any real knowledge and experience of their own. That would make sense to me, I often feel that way myself... I often find that I just can't be bothered to do the research like I used to because I know there is little point, but I'm too attached to just let it go. I keep telling myself to stop wasting time with pointless arguments, but I can't help coming on and reading to keep up, unable to stop chiming in when I spot a real blooper. I guess that's why I get annoyed because trying to keep off the whole thing allows you to take a more balanced view on things, otherwise you are effectively brainwashing yourself and it's easy to become a nervous wreck that suspects everyone and everything. It also means that evidence of extreme paranoia and illogical thinking stand out even more, but when you try and point this out you usually get a barrage of insults from some nervous twitch accusing one of being on some sort of payroll. It's actually quite pathetic. As was brought up in another thread, the famous 'tell tale signs of a Dis-information agent' can be applied to anyone really. The whole guide is not something that can really be used and is little more than amusement, if not a dis-information campaign itself designed to provoke confrontation in the first place. The point is, most of these 'signs' can easily be applied to people for other reasons, and are by no means a sure indication of anything. As to who else could be behind a dis-information program, without even going into alternatives it could still be Government or one of it's agenices if oyu want ot go down that route. Someone as intelligent as you should easily be able to see how and why it would be the case, unless it's getting to close for comfort? While everyone is arguing about things which are almost trivial to the grander scheme, proper attention is being diverted away from avenues which could provide real evidence one way or another. For instance more people could be pooling together and trying to get FOIA on the video tapes from that day like on flight77.info , but they are too busy arguing about bs explosives. Even if explosives were used then so what? No one will actually be any nearer to finding out who did it and why exactly than before. Meanwhile years have passed and it'll be too late to do anything. So don't try and poo-poo the idea that if there was involvement from supposedly friendly entities, they would be the last people to propogate wild theories, because they would be amongst the first. As I said, people like you can easily be dis-information agents yourself, designed to keep people occupied. Of course you will deny it, but then you would, wouldn't you? You and your colleagues quite often show traits common with the 'dis-information guide', so you either have to accept that it's crap, or you have to accept that you are as high on the suspect list as anyone else. Of course you will either deny this profusely, trying to ridicule the whole idea, or you will use reverse-psycology by agreeing that it is possible and hold your hands up to it in an attempt to lower people's guard. Maybe you will ignore it.... Of course you may just be an unwitting shill, brainwashed using conventional methods without the use of drugs or technology, who is simply a puppet serving under an unknown puppet master, the most secure of disinformationists as they do not even realise they are one themselves. Plausible deniability, if you don't realise what you are, then when you deny it you will be truthful.. I know your game........... [edit on 17-1-2006 by AgentSmith]