Police Officers Against NDAA

I’ve read a lot of speculation about NDAA here on ATS. The actual verbiage in the bill does allow for the detention of US citizens. In fact, Obama recently made the following statement:

“Moreover, I want to clarify that my Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens. Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most important traditions and values as a Nation. My Administration will interpret section 1021 in a manner that ensures that any detention it authorizes complies with the Constitution, the laws of war, and all other applicable law.”

link

By saying he “will not authorize” directly implies that he believes HE DOES have the authority to do so under these new provisions. This opens the door for this president to fill the FEMA CAMPS with anyone he deems a threat to this country.

The only way this law can be used in an illegal and malicious manner against US citizens is if law enforcement and military members comply with unconstitutional orders. There has been much speculation on ATS about whether or not they would. Today I came across the following letter written by an Ohio police officer. This is very promising and I hope to see more of this from law enforcement and military leaders in near future:

This letter was written to raise awareness of the ominous problems in the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012. Because Jim Singleton is a State chapter officer for Ohio Oath Keepers and is Ohio’s Peace Officer Liaison, this letter will be circulated within LE communities around Ohio.

Greetings and Salutations,

It’s unfortunate that I have to write this letter, however in light of current events it is inevitable. Just days ago the United States Congress passed the NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act) this in itself was necessary. However in this bill was an insidious piece of verbiage that for all intents and purposes destroys the foundation of everything we believe in and took an oath to uphold. To me the possibility of those citizens and others under my protection being spirited off in the middle of the night by agents of the military, then being summarily incarcerated without access to judge or jury are insufferable and intolerable acts.

It will be argued that this only applies to foreign persons or others suspected of terrorism, but there are far too many avenues available to apply this to any group to which any administration may take umbrage with. When growing up and especially during our training in the academy we are instructed that the constitutional rights of all must be upheld at all times, as well as the respect for all people we come in contact with or represent. This section of the NDAA attempts to remove those rights which are enumerated and given to us by our creator, and places them in the hands of the office of the President of the United States to be disregarded at his whim.

So it appears that at least some in law enforcement GET IT. Some of them will not follow orders in clear violation of the constitution. Here is the best part:

I believe that if and when those orders come, I cannot in good faith and in strict observance to my oath, allow myself to be a part of them. I would hope that members of our military in accordance to the articles of the UCMJ, would also refuse them as well. When that time comes I will do exactly as I have sworn to do, I will serve and protect those under my care, so help me God.

link

Unless many more LEO’s and military members take a stand like this officer we may very well be in big trouble? Can any of you provide examples of LEO’s or military members standing up against this tyranny? This thread can be used to post anything ANTI-NDAA. Maybe if we compile enough examples of people against NDAA we can do something productive with the info.

I think for every 1 cop or soldier that would stand up against the NDAA, there's 100 more willing to enforce it. The cops in my town for example are so young and power-hungry, I'm sure enforcing this bill would fill them with glee. People join the police force for ONE reason: power. Nobody ever joined the police for the paperwork, or to be spit on, or clean up a drunks puke. They all just want power.

I wonder how long it will be before they start losing their jobs like the cops who speak out in LEAP, Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.

These people in law enforcement are looked at the same way mainstream Republicans look at Ron Paul. They're not real.

reply to post by seabag


Greetings,
I myself have heard much speculation regarding this bill from local radio host Bob McClain and others calling into his show. To answer Your question, YES ! We have a Sheriff Richard Mack here in S.C. who is actually going to be doing a seminar with local police, sheriffs , troopers etc. I believe it will take place this month. Seats are $10 and I have thought of offering to purchase the tickets for my locals here in Cowpens. It will mainly address their roles as Oathkeepers and just what that oath they swore to entails. Hope this helps
Semper Fi

reply to post by seabag


This is the actual seminar here that Richard Mack of SC will be hosting.

OFF SITE CONTENT
www.facebook.com...

once again
Semper Fi

Emily Kagan the new supreme court judge has stated that she would consider international (UN) law in addition to our laws.

Originally posted by piercebitchone
reply to post by seabag

 

Greetings,
I myself have heard much speculation regarding this bill from local radio host Bob McClain and others calling into his show. To answer Your question, YES ! We have a Sheriff Richard Mack here in S.C. who is actually going to be doing a seminar with local police, sheriffs , troopers etc. I believe it will take place this month. Seats are $10 and I have thought of offering to purchase the tickets for my locals here in Cowpens. It will mainly address their roles as Oathkeepers and just what that oath they swore to entails. Hope this helps

Semper Fi

Dude, I LOVE Bobby Mack. He and I have been friends for several years, Lisa Rollins too. Russ Castle however, is a first-class know-it-all wiener - and a liar to boot. I wish I was able to get to the seminar, but I've moved to Michigan.

Cowpens is an appropriate venue for taking a stand for the Constitution. It was at the Battle of Cowpens that South Carolina Militia turned the tide against General Lord Cornwallis during the Revolutionary War; the famous end battle in the Mel Gibson movie "The Patriot."

The next episode of my show deals with the NDAA, and I have calls out to local prosecutors and the County Sheriff as well in order to get their input. So far, they have not called me back. I'd really like to know how they feel though, and if I find out I'll be sure to share it with you.

Very good timing, the posting of this thread.

I recently had a converstaion about NDAA with a police officer, and he was incredulous. He had never heard of it, and he was actualy shocked when I told him the implications therein.

He had also no idea that under Social Security, the "US citizen" is no longer protected by the Bill of Rights.

Maybe I should shut up...

reply to post by seabag


I am not American, but to be honest, if I were, this piece of legislation would give me horrible nightmares. The way it's worded (Don't tell me there aren't capable and better writers than the ones who penned the law)terrorizes the average person imo, regardless of what the Pres says his current intentions are. Good for Oathkeepers who are informing others and keeping watch!

An aside/ Since corporations are now people too, (gawd, how obscene!) perhaps another amendment to the law should be that corporations be arrested before citizens are? I can think of a few some such I'd like to see closed down in the middle of the night.

reply to post by Adyta

I think for every 1 cop or soldier that would stand up against the NDAA, there's 100 more willing to enforce it. The cops in my town for example are so young and power-hungry, I'm sure enforcing this bill would fill them with glee.

I have a feeling you may be right about this; maybe not 1 for every 100 but definitely a lot. I’ve known a lot of Marines that would follow orders without thinking…

Instant, willing obedience to orders is the Marine Corps’ definition of discipline.

People join the police force for ONE reason: power. Nobody ever joined the police for the paperwork, or to be spit on, or clean up a drunks puke. They all just want power.

I disagree with this assessment. I have several friends and relatives that are LEO. They are not on a power trip. They joined to serve their country and fellow citizens. There are some like you described, for sure. There are bad apples in every bunch.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

I wonder how long it will be before they start losing their jobs like the cops who speak out in LEAP, Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.

I hope this is not the case. Sometimes when you make a stand it can have negative affects on your career though. I think this is why many military leaders refuse to stand up….they want to hang on long enough to retire and don’t want to ruffle feathers.

These people in law enforcement are looked at the same way mainstream Republicans look at Ron Paul. They're not real.

My main reason for the thread was to show that LEO’s are not the enemy of Americans or simply NWO pawns. A vast majority are good people…

I’ve heard enough garbage out of OWS about the evil cops, so I wanted to show that there are cops and military members out here who don’t agree with this agenda.

Originally posted by aboutface
reply to post by seabag

 

I am not American, but to be honest, if I were, this piece of legislation would give me horrible nightmares. The way it's worded (Don't tell me there aren't capable and better writers than the ones who penned the law)terrorizes the average person imo, regardless of what the Pres says his current intentions are. Good for Oathkeepers who are informing others and keeping watch!

You’re right, it’s wording is ambiguous at best – purposely misleading at worst. It can be interpreted in different ways to suit various agendas. TPTB don’t do anything unintentionally.

This is a very scary piece of legislation. It’s even scarier when you consider they are now pushing this new SOPA legislation. We already have the Patriot Act, NDAA and Agenda 21 to worry about. These things combined paint a picture that many people don’t want to see…

reply to post by seabag


Individually there are good ones. Perhaps plenty of good ones.

Institutionally, however, there are not.

Originally posted by Aqualung2012
Very good timing, the posting of this thread.

I recently had a converstaion about NDAA with a police officer, and he was incredulous. He had never heard of it, and he was actualy shocked when I told him the implications therein.

He had also no idea that under Social Security, the "US citizen" is no longer protected by the Bill of Rights.

I know how you feel. I have a few very close buddies who I served with who have NO CLUE about the subversion going on in America. My brother-in-law is a cop and he is even more oblivious than them!

Believe me, I will be forwarding a link to this article to every oath keeper I know. The more people are aware the better our chances of beating back this BS are.

I’m starting to know how Ron Paul feels…..every day is like an uphill battle trying to get the message out to people!

All the Sheriffs throughout this country Are the Law, and at any time they feel threatened have the Authority to remove the threat by all cooperation throughout their ranks justifiably, which at this moment is Obama and the members of his dictator#

If they were truly that concerned don't you think they would have done something about it????
I think they are just blowing wind and waiting for their project money, like every other corrupt politician

I believe it will be all left up to the citizens to forcibly take back this country and put an end to the corporate hijacking and governmental tyranny

reply to post by sweetnlow


I think you just misunderstand the chain of command and what’s expected of them. LEO’s and military members are taught to instantly obey orders given by their superiors. They don’t have the power to change laws and many won’t speak out against things like this for fear of retaliation or negative effects on their career. Besides, no orders have been given….yet. I think we'd see mass defection from their ranks if TPTB tried to exercise this new authority.

The fact that some are speaking out now is a good thing, and just like TTP and OWS, hopefully this movement will gain some steam in the LE community. Once TPTB realize they won’t have any willing accomplices or pawns to carry out their subversive plans they will be powerless.

regarding this issue, im from britain and i havnt really read upon the matter so im not sure on detail ect.
so bare with me please i may be well of the boil. lol

were i live on the news the other day was a matter which shocked me apparently the could be upto 1 million asylum seeker's that we have deemed MISSING in britian, Imagine how many asylum seekers we have that aint missing and add tem ect.

160.000 jobs have been taken up by asylum seekers. Which leaves me to suggest pretty much all the asylum seekers are taking welfare.

how many pose a threat? everyone who is missing and more,

so if you took this and placed this in america im pretty sure the numbers would be great ofcourse, they may have enter'd diffrently but they still manage it.

so say america have some how monitor'd all networks ect and more, Collected evidence and are waiting for a day to collect all suspects and detain them on a huge scale because you couldnt do half at a time becuase your leaving yourself vunarable. This could take a long time to get through hence the possibilty of long term prison.
if this is never done then in a genaration the fight against terror would be usless as its spread in every neighbourhood all over america, we would have a bigger problem with working out who is and isnt.

this has to be done now. but at the same time as fighting terror the people want guantanimo bay closed. where do the people go? send some to britian ect?.

if the goverment/politics was see through we would know all intentions but it isnt and we dont know.
if we left it and carry on as we are and didnt chase them or catch them were losing the battle.
and further more the fema camps ect could just be a back up plan incase something goes wrong against terror and america is attacked or a virus spread ect?,

i think there has to be a law that states if your are suspected or proven terrorist then imprisonment is key im affraid. we are not dealing with normal criminals, these people may not all be terrorists but those who are dont mind killing themselves,a potential life time jail is nothing but a deterrorent in my eyes. if you put them in jail and release them what happens? they get more annoyed or convert and then want revenge, if something like this is never tryed or tested the war on terror will never finish or atleast never be more than a few feet away from all of us. its not a nice way but maybe be the only way to dealing with it?

what the plans are now might not be nice or normal procedure but may well be the only way to tackle a worm that is eating away at every nation and is winning.

i see it like a filter, put everything through it and the let the good guys go after taking details and keep the good guys for answers. its pretty standard but just on a bigger scale. ruthless is sometime the only way. otherwise the world has no chance of surviving. sacrifice a genaration for whole future is worthwhile.

reply to post by seabag


Retired Marine Corps General Charles Krulak spoke out against NDAA last month, so at least one prominent military figure is on board. Notice I said RETIRED:

This budget bill — which can be vetoed without cutting financing for our troops — is both misguided and unnecessary: the president already has the power and flexibility to effectively fight terrorism.

One provision would authorize the military to indefinitely detain without charge people suspected of involvement with terrorism, including United States citizens apprehended on American soil. Due process would be a thing of the past. Some claim that this provision would merely codify existing practice. Current law empowers the military to detain people caught on the battlefield, but this provision would expand the battlefield to include the United States — and hand Osama bin Laden an unearned victory long after his well-earned demise.

NY Times

I went to the store earlier and saw a State Trooper I met earlier last year. I went up and asked him if he knew about the NDAA and he did. In fact, he was fairly knowledgeable. We discussed the issue for about five minutes, but it was the end of the conversation that chilled me to the bone.

After defending the idea of warrantless arrests and indefinite detention "in the interest of the many," I finally asked him "Is probable cause enough to take the life of an American Citizen?" He looked right at me with those beady little eyes and appropriate Hitler mustache and said, "Yes." He was serious and it was scary.

Discretion being the better part of valor, I refrained from throwing him a Nazi salute saying, "Seig Heil. You'll make a wonderful storm trooper." I hope his beliefs are the exception and not the rule.

reply to post by OldCorp


I hear you, brother. Me too. As I've stated, I know a lot of cops and military people (about a dozen I am close with) all of them are good people with the best of intentions. There will obviously be a good number of 'not so good guys' in any group...look at how many people still support Obama after 5 trillion of debt, obamacare and NDAA!

Nothing we can do but hope for the best and prepare for the worst, ya know?