Gay marriage is a threat to humanity, claims Pope

It sounds like he's saying if it's not a man/woman relationship, then they don't have the values and principles to correctly raise a child. Of course, let's ignore all those dysfunctional families that have abusive mothers and/or fathers. As long as two people care for each other and want to raise a child in a loving environment, it's none of his damn business.

reply to post by orangetom1999


So your argument is that rational thought is always bad, and religion is always good? What about religious extremists and zealots throughout history ( and including today) that have murdered millions in the name of God?


There are bad people in this world who do bad things - some of those people are "rational" (i.e., not religious) and some are just religious nuts with no rationality. And, there are plenty of decent people who harm no one and are not religious.

Originally posted by deepankarm
reply to post by PapagiorgioCZ

 

Its my pleasure to discuss different topics with people of different nationalities particularly western nations.
sincere thanks to internet for that....
now, i am not a religious person as in your definition.
I dont believe in male, female deities.
they might exist, but they are not my goal.
my god is one who cant be defined by me.
he is beyond my senses.

I don't believe that anything can be beyond your senses. And if you do, then you are putting inaccurate limits on your ability to sense things.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by grahag

 

Only rational thought can save you.

Excuse me grahag, save you from what? Death? Hell? Running out of chicken nuggets? What do you think an individual needs to be saved from? A way of thinking you don't like?

I'm really not trying to be a wise guy, I'm just not used to seeing 1) that rational thought is "saving" and 2) belief in God prevents rational thought when that kind of thought is needed.

I agree with both of you to a degree - grahag and Charles - or at least I think I do.

I do think 'rational thought' can save us from quite a bit. Simply taking the time to slow down and think things through saves a whole lot of discomfort on a daily basis in my estimation.

I also defiantly agree that the belief in 'god' (with a small G and not a Christian capitol G) can be considered 'rational thought' as well. I believe in the divine and I regard this belief as rational. After all there are clear signs of the divine all around me, how could I not believe. As such how is such a belief un-rational?

Anyway, I just thought I would share my own point of view.

Cheers.

reply to post by captaintyinknots

Dear captaintyinknots,

I'm glad you found my comments interesting. I can assure you that they would have been even more interesting if you hadn't misunderstood them. I did not say that which you attribute to me, please allow me to repeat it.

1) I am not used to seeing people write that rational thought is "saving." (Saving in the context of this thread has a spiritual connotation. I was asking what grahag meant.)

2) I am not used to seeing people write that if you have a belief in God, you are unable to think rationally about other things.

so you accept without question the statement that jesus saves, and challenge the thought that rational thought does?

That is nowhere near what I said.

If you now understand what I said and would like to make a pertinent comment, I'd be happy to respond.

Best wishes,
Charles1952

God said in Genesis, produce and multiply. Paul said the opposite and also was considered some what sexist, interesting enough Thecla followed him till the ends of the earth due to his celibacy proclamation. Paul created majority of the catholic church doctrine, Look no women in it. Also if you go to the core of christianity during ancient times it all was started primarily by women and got hijacked by man

Gnostics on the other hand believe we are in hell, but there are too many good things on planet earth for that to be considered in my opinion.

Behold the power of bacon!

Gay marriage is a threat to humanity, claims Pope

I think we've taken on an incorrect approach to the issue of homosexuality from the very beginning so, I can't really agree with the Vatican on this, either. We've treated the subject as being a natural course of human life when it should be getting far more focus as a disease or genetic ailment.

I often get hammered for saying this but I am neither anti-gay or, more politically correct, homophobic. In fact, I support their right to wed and don't see any reason to fear such. But I also recognize nature's reason for gender separation and bi-identity so I feel there should be more science directed at the cause, or causes behind homosexuality. Then if someday we discover why it happens, we might find a cure and then begin a debate whether or not one should even be offered.

In sum, I think it is unfortunate that we ignore an entire segment of this subject while zooming in on another. These are people just like the rest of us so... there's no reason to treat them as anything less than human beings.

Originally posted by Animal
I also defiantly agree that the belief in 'god' (with a small G and not a Christian capitol G) can be considered 'rational thought' as well. I believe in the divine and I regard this belief as rational. After all there are clear signs of the divine all around me, how could I not believe. As such how is such a belief un-rational?

Anyway, I just thought I would share my own point of view.

Cheers.

edit on 20-1-2012 by Animal because: (no reason given)

What's your definition of "divine"? There may be those of rational thought that would say there are other explanations for what you call divine, which means that divine is just part of a belief system not necessarily based on rational thought.

reply to post by kaylaluv


To me divine = over-arching architecture / consciousness / being.

I am not exactly sure what it is but I believe that I know it to be there.

To me it represents the convergence of 'rational' / 'scientific' thought and 'belief' / 'religion'.

Does this make sense?

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by grahag

 

Only rational thought can save you.

Excuse me grahag, save you from what? Death? Hell? Running out of chicken nuggets? What do you think an individual needs to be saved from? A way of thinking you don't like?

I'm really not trying to be a wise guy, I'm just not used to seeing 1) that rational thought is "saving" and 2) belief in God prevents rational thought when that kind of thought is needed.

My comment was firmly tongue in cheek about how someone puts down someone else's God in favor of their own, when both are clearly irrational given the absolute trust in faith that is required for their religions to work.

It is not rational for someone to believe in a God based off faith and the collected works of men.

For people to take the word of the Pope as canon is just asking for trouble. Wait until he says that Homosexuals need to be killed or it's now okay to have sex with children.

reply to post by grahag

Dear grahag,

I have no idea why, my feeling makes no sense to me, but I like your style. Thanks for writing.

If I understand you, you make two points:
1) Written things, and faith, are insufficient for a rational belief in God.
2) Papal Infallibility may lead to some wrong beliefs.

1) The collected works of men are sufficient for us to have a belief in Aristotle, Homer, Socrates, and hundreds of others. Christians are just saying that the collected works of men are also sufficient for us to have a belief that Jesus lived and that he did certain things.

2) These statements from the Pope don't come out everyday, the last one concerned Mary and was over 60 years ago. There are various safeguards, I only know a couple. The Pope's stament may not contradict the Bible or the tradition of the Church, an individual's informed conscience is the final judge of any teaching, and the worst that happens to you if you disagree is that you're not Catholic anymore. I don't have the same worries that you express (tongue in cheek?).

With respect,
Charles1952

Newsflash you silly Pope with such a silly hat! Traditional families are no longer traditional. Geez! I think its great that the Vatican announced the possibility of alien life but its the damn homosexuals that will bring the end of civilization. Where else can we get such great entertainment. And the church wonders why their losing their youth and pews continue to remain empty; well, besides that little raping little children thing.

And now for some fun via Bible Babble...

The killing of homosexuals is condoned and encouraged in the wonderful laws of Leviticus. Leviticus 20:13 clearly states "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Well there you have it, Homosexuality is wrong, and they must pay the ultimate price... IN THE NAME OF GOD!!!

Who else shouldn't people do?

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)

Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9) Have you ever done that?

If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10). I wonder if Dr. Laura would like that one to be enforced?

If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death. (Leviticus 20:11)

If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death. (Leviticus 20:14)

If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed. (Leviticus 20:15-16). I guess you should kill the animal since they were willing participants. Are they crazy?

If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)

Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)

If a priest's daughter is a whore, she is to be burnt at the stake. (Leviticus 21:9)

People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)

There are also some funny "rules" about owning slaves and shellfish. Good stuff.

Bible Babble

reply to post by Cosmic911

Forgive me, you thought Bible Babble was fun? Considering the rules for an ancient tribal people, thousands of years ago, even after they had been put aside and lost their relevance as rules for living, is fun? Maybe it's like having fun with old American laws that no longer apply?

Maybe it's supposed to make a point? That rules change over millennia? That God can say "you had rules to get you to this point, now you need to switch emphasis?"

I would be pleased if you went through the New Testament with the thoroughness with which you went through Leviticus. Better still, don't take highlights from a website, read it for yourself.