51% See Occupy Wall Street Protesters As Public Nuisance

sorry if this was posted already, long thread and i didn't read it all.

occpy rap sheet, sorry, but this is way to long to post..

Originally posted by FugitiveSoul
51% still believe voting counts, Congress and the President have control of the country, and that Wars are waged for oil and spreading freedom dust. If people are getting annoyed with Occupy, then it's working, otherwise they're just people in a park. For notice to be taken, for change to be kickstarted, some tail feathers are going to have to get ruffled.

Various OWS chapters have remained active in their own respective areas, choosing their own focus within their communities. Spring will see an upsurgence of activity, and there will be no way to ignore this movement in an election year.

That "likely voters" almost invariably means "heavily old" should just completely be ignored.

It's not actually a representative sample of the nation at large. It's a representative sample of people over 35.

I haven't seen much coverage of what the average OWS protestor is even saying!
Are they for legalizing drugs? Communist revolution? Idk, because. like the Tea Party, ALL that is said about them in the media is how they have crazy hygiene, crazy backers, or are racists and OF COURSE have; The black bandanna-covered, agent provocateurs who break stuff or start fires.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by JBA2848

 

The national survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted on January 3-4, 2012 by Rasmussen Reports.

It was a Republican pole only Republicans can vote for there Primary.
So now we know half of Republicans support Occupy Wallstreet.
Good work Occupy Wallstreet. Even Republicans like your style.

It was a telephone pole of likely voters. I’m pretty sure the phone company is unaware of your political affiliation, so to call it a Republican poll is silly!

Nice try though!

edit on 9-1-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)

But the phone company knows if I am a likely voter or not?
Yeah, something is missing from your logic there.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


All I'm trying to do is refute the claim that Occupiers claim that the represent 99% of the population, it's not what the saying means at all.

We are the 99% is a political slogan widely used by the "Occupy" protesters.[1] It was originally the name of a Tumblr blog page launched in late August 2011 by an anonymous 28-year-old New York activist named "Chris."[2][3][4] The phrase indirectly refers to the vast concentration of wealth among the top 1% of income earners compared to the other 99%, and reflects a commonly held belief that the common people ("the 99%") are paying the price for the mistakes of a tiny minority.[5][6][7] The phrase was picked up as a unifying slogan[8] by the Occupy movement.[9] According to the Wall Street Journal, a person needs to earn at least $506,000 annually to be in the top 1% of the income distribution in the United States.[10]

wikipedia.org

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by jacktherer

 

The day they get 10's of thousands to "occupy DC" and actually have a clear and concise message and plan for reforming our corrupt government, that's the day I will join them and stand proud. Until then, I will view them exactly as I have stated.

So you agree there is a problem. You agree someone should be protesting something. But until the right people are protesting the right things, you are going to sit and wait? Huh? Why are you waiting for someone else to start doing anything first in order for it to motivate you?

Anyone that wants a protest but is sitting online just complaining these protests are aimed wrong really have no point. I cannot figure how OWS is preventing any of you from getting up off your own ass and perhaps doing it yourselves. Maybe the right just cannot form a protest without the Koch brothers printing up signs for them and Glenn Beck telling them where to meet?

Regarding OWS: I'm part of that 51% (if that 51% included Canadians).

I'm skeptical of any movement that thinks the only way to fix things is to tear everything down, and that sentiment is what i've been hearing from OWS supporters and OWS GA feeds, as well as OWS actions like declaring their camps police-free zones. Historically, tearing everything down hasn't ended well (see: probably every revolution ever), as the end result is a bigger jerk taking power. I'm not unsympathetic, but I don't think OWS is going to get anything done if they refuse to work with the system in any way.

And now someone's going to come and tell me that they can't work with the system because it's broken. Well tearing down the system isn't going to work, you need to be willing to work slowly towards eventual change. That's how we see positive lasting social/cultural change happen, over decades not over a few years.

---

Regarding the sample size issue - if you survey 1000 people in a population, you can fairly accurately reflect that population. It depends on the demographics and the question(s) asked and so forth, but you can't dismiss a survey only on the basis that they asked 1000 people.

See janda.org... for a longer discussion - most relevant part is:

"Surprisingly, however, once the survey sample gets to a size of 500, 600, 700 or more, there are fewer and fewer accuracy gains which come from increasing the sample size. Gallup and other major organizations use sample sizes of between 1,000 and 1,500 because they provide a solid balance of accuracy against the increased economic cost of larger and larger samples. If Gallup were to - quite expensively - use a sample of 4,000 randomly selected adults each time it did its poll, the increase in accuracy over and beyond a well-done sample of 1,000 would be minimal, and generally speaking, would not justify the increase in cost."

reply to post by Kafternin


If your post is refering to me.I already answered that.
www.rasmussenreports.com...

After the surveys are completed, the raw data is processed through a weighting program to insure that the sample reflects the overall population in terms of age, race, gender, political party, and other factors.

raw data is processed through a weighting program to insure age, race, gender, political party, and other factors

Rasmussen Reports is also not a phone company. They do robo calling.

Originally posted by JBA2848
reply to post by Kafternin

 

If your post is refering to me.I already answered that.

I am not sure what post you are referring to. Sorry?
I clicked the link to see what you replied to and that post was directed at a specific person and really had nothing to do with what you just posted. I am sorry if there is some confusion.

reply to post by Kali74

Fair enough... It just wasn't that long ago that the signs and the protesters were saying the 99% meant the population. It's sobering to see how smoothly and quickly that has changed. Oh well... I'm not writing Occupy off until I see what reconstitutes, if anything, in the Spring. It seems about done in the cities for anything more than an endless war of attrition through endless protest, and criminal charges actually make that a little short of endless to their benefit any time they want to push.

We'll see in the Spring.... I still hope Occupy finds a way to work. I just have precious little expectation left. It's a year for strange things though, right? I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

a] I would bet money that 80% of the crimes that Occupy members have been accused of, are utterly false. The police and governments are going to look for literally any BS excuse they can to get rid of them; sanitation in particular has been a favourite strawman of the authorities.

b] Demographic polls are easily rigged, and are therefore largely meaningless. With that said, I don't believe that Occupy represent the majority, either; the radical Left, which is who Occupy are, at least at a leadership level, (and don't fool yourself about them being "leaderless") do not constitute the majority.

To me, the most amusing things of all is that OWS simply doesn't go nearly far enough, and yet, it is still so disliked. We should have been rolling heads a while ago, and cleaned up our government, and ended the Federal Reserve, and brought our troops home, and on and on. We could have saved ourselves.

Now we have people trying to point out how screwed up the system is taking direct abuse from the police, including this new targeting by name thing going on since the NDAA, and people are simply annoyed at these people taking abuse for trying to stand up for the rapidly swelling MASSES of poor all over the Earth.

OWS doesn't go nearly far enough, but it shows just how far most Americans have fallen.

To imagine this massive outcry caused of actual suffering as some of the things that people buzz word out, and not simply what it is, shows a basic lack of human sympathy and understanding and some unfailing ability to imagine it's only going to happen to someone else.

OWS should have swelled and changed this nation peacefully. You thought by waiting you would be safe? That people trying to mass and form some resistance was stupid?

Well you're waiting yourself, right into their hands. 2012 will be a year of awakening due to suffering.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Kali74

 

Fair enough... It just wasn't that long ago that the signs and the protesters were saying the 99% meant the population. It's sobering to see how smoothly and quickly that has changed. Oh well... I'm not writing Occupy off until I see what reconstitutes, if anything, in the Spring. It seems about done in the cities for anything more than an endless war of attrition through endless protest, and criminal charges actually make that a little short of endless to their benefit any time they want to push.

We'll see in the Spring.... I still hope Occupy finds a way to work. I just have precious little expectation left. It's a year for strange things though, right? I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

It has been this from day one, I'm surprised you're confused by this considering you were at a camp for a while. Why wait til spring? Next week is supposed to be a large event in DC.

And for the 1 trillionth time...99% doesn't not mean 99% of the population. It means the 99% who control 47% of the wealth compared to the 1% who control 53% of the wealth.

reply to post by Kali74


Isn't that the same thing as 99% of the population? I mean if 99% control 47% of the wealth, then those of us who are not a part of the 1% must be the other 99%. Since I am part of the 47% wealth control, that puts me into the 99% group, which I do not agree with, therefore it cannot be the 99% vs. the 1%.

Still a major fail. And according to their demands, they are still looking for freebies. Their declaration reeks of tree huggers and la la feel good kumbya hippies. The reality of the world doesn't even come close to allowing their declaration to even remotely have a chance of coming to fruition. They should try being realistic. And yes, they are targeting the money makers, and not government...hence their name...OWS!

Originally posted by Kali74

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Kali74

 

Fair enough... It just wasn't that long ago that the signs and the protesters were saying the 99% meant the population. It's sobering to see how smoothly and quickly that has changed. Oh well... I'm not writing Occupy off until I see what reconstitutes, if anything, in the Spring. It seems about done in the cities for anything more than an endless war of attrition through endless protest, and criminal charges actually make that a little short of endless to their benefit any time they want to push.

We'll see in the Spring.... I still hope Occupy finds a way to work. I just have precious little expectation left. It's a year for strange things though, right? I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

It has been this from day one, I'm surprised you're confused by this considering you were at a camp for a while. Why wait til spring? Next week is supposed to be a large event in DC.

Yeah... Not half as surprised as I am to suddenly be told the 99% doesn't really represent the 99% at all...but some % of a % of a formula. This is a crock, Kali. Someone called you on the this survey for half of the results showing a total lack of tolerance for Occupy at this point.

Next you're saying 'the poll doesn't matter (agreed there) but if it DOES matter, well, see, we don't REALLY represent the ACTUAL 99% anyway, and so..see..the numbers don't matter for that reasons...and and and ..'

Got excuses? This is why Occupy is losing what respect and credbility it had...and it never had half as much as those in it would have loved to think it did anyway. However, you know darn well I was a volunteer in Occupy and lived in a camp, and you're saying I really never understood....the whole CAMP in St Louis, never really understood we weren't really representing 99% of the population, but a subset of a %????

No... I'm sorry, but I''ve got no back up on this. At best, Occupy camps have radically different concepts of what this is about, and that there is a terminal problem for the movement itself. The idea that I misunderstood is absurd. I helped write the material while I was there and I sat through the presentations and Indoc sessions they called 'Teach-Ins'. It was VERY clear....ALL of it.....on the point that "the majority of wealth is concentrated within 1% of the human population and that 1% is the controlling influence and problem in the world around us today."

Occupy never used to make excuses like this...THAT is what I found sad and somewhat depressing to note had changed and shows a general decline across the board from what Occupy was...to what it's become.

the majority of wealth is concentrated within 1% of the human population and that 1% is the controlling influence and problem in the world around us today

Well that is the problem isn't it? Do you find that sentence acceptable? The whole point is that the majority of the population whether they agree with it or not are getting taken to the cleaners by a select few that have been running the show since at least 1492. The books are cooked towards their favor and they hold all the cards. If you think it's a problem of "crooked politicians" and not a systemic problem then you'll be in for a rude awakening once the current crop of corrupted officials get replaced by the next crop of corrupted officials.

No one is asking for total income equality (which would make no sense), but the gross inequality that has been going on for decades cannot continue. The money that's in politics must not continue. The banking practices currently accepted cannot continue. Current Wall street deregulation cannot continue. The worship of the infinite growth economy (which matters above all else according to our rulers) cannot continue. The gross waste and environmental damage cannot continue. The elimination of "the commons" cannot continue. The buying of shared resources vital to human survival by private interests cannot continue. The perpetual war climate cannot continue.

This isn't a band-aid problem.

reply to post by haarvik


No it isn't the same, I truly don't understand the confusion, lol. Thanks for the insults though, I'll just bypass the shower on my way to the drum circle as I hum Kumbayah*. I'll also be sure to tell my comrades we can stop protesting the NDAA, SOPA, PIPA, money in politics, corruption, Citizens United et al...because someone on the internet says we're doing it wrong.

reply to post by Kali74


Excellent!
Maybe then they'll get the point that the majority of Americans (yes that includes your 99%) do not view them in a favorable light. OWS is an exercise in futility until they can get focused, with leaders, and a REAL set of goals and a plan to accomplish them.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by Kali74

 

Excellent!
Maybe then they'll get the point that the majority of Americans (yes that includes your 99%) do not view them in a favorable light. OWS is an exercise in futility until they can get focused, with leaders, and a REAL set of goals and a plan to accomplish them.

Focused...we are on many things. Maybe this is the cause of confusion, people that have the ability to focus on many targets. So many of the issues are tied together than it's like a hydra, attack one head and another appears...attack them all then get to the beast. But, this isn't magic...there's no fast, easy way to do this.

Occupy Wall Street has changed the National conversation

New York City lashes out over Citizens United decision

LA and OccupyLA agree it's time to end corporate personhood

The Occupied Amendment



I think someone already posted this in this thread but...looks like goals and solutions to me.

There is a Solution! Register to vote at www.the99declaration.org and then elect one man and one woman from each of the 435 congressional districts plus Washington, D.C. and the U.S. Territories, during the weekend of March 30-April 1, 2012. Voting is through a secure online system and, if possible, by telephone and at local polling places. March – July 2012, delegates draft a list of grievances and solutions with input from their constituents. The week of July 4, 2012, delegates meet in Philadelphia for a National General Assembly (NGA) to ratify and sign a final petition on July 4th for a redress of grievances. The ratified petition is served upon all three branches of the government and all candidates running for federal political office in 2012. Candidates will be asked to respond to the petition, and their responses will be shared with the voting public. The National General Assembly gives the 113th Congress, President and the Supreme Court time to act upon and redress the grievances listed in the petition. If the grievances are not redressed to the satisfaction of the NGA, delegates reconvene to organize a new grassroots campaign for political candidates who publicly PLEDGE to redress the grievances. These candidates will seek election for all open Congressional seats in the mid-term election of 2014 and in the elections of 2016 and 2018.

the99declaration.org

Prior to Obama signing the NDAA there were Occupiers being arrested outside the Whitehouse demanding he not sign it. After signing there was a small protest inside Grand Central Station, NYC informing people what the NDAA meant, because Americans seem to know less about the NDAA than they do about Occupy. OccupyKST has been protesting lobbyists.

Something else to consider is that here we can't post a lot of information because they are posts on forums which is against T&C's. The info is out there, you have to look for it. Not that you will or even read any of this.

In the end maybe we won't have accomplished much (I think we will) but at the very least we have the courage to try and refuse to accept this fascist tyrannical corporatocracy America is becoming/has become.