Deputy Leader of UK calls Scots Extremists

Originally posted by YeshuaPiso

Those invasions had ZERO impact on English bloodlines!

In a forum of some rather ridiculous statements we may just have found a winner.

edit on 9-1-2012 by YeshuaPiso because: (no reason given)

Actually, he is largely on the money, although I wouldn't say "zero" like he did. 70% of the genetic makeup of the UK's population is "indigineous" with only 30% (varies depending on regions) made up of the variety of other people's who came here over the millenia. Studies bare this out.

Originally posted by YeshuaPiso
I'm talking of the period around the Wars of Independence - 400 years before the Union. You're the one who needs a history lesson.

Hmm, a period of much confusion over who was King, with the Scots inviting Edward (who was married to the only heir of Alexander III) to abitrate the warring clans over the Crown, who ended up getting involved himself. It isn't as cut and dry as "evil English took over Scotland" as many of your own Nobles got involved on both sides having had land in England as well as Scotland.

You may not be aware, but at that time there was no notion of a state, per se, but everyone was loyal only to their leige. It is complicated and you are over-simplifying it for the sake of trying to prove a point.

Even the great Robert the Bruce fought for the English at times, then the Scots, then the English... His loyalties lay with his own ambitions, who threatened his holdings and how much power he could grab at the time. Same with all nobles, they are like politicians..

reply to post by Vitchilo


And on what facts do you base that statement or is it just more of your anti-English rhetoric?

Do you actually know anything of the Scottish people's wishes?
Have you actually met a real Scots person?
Do you know anything about The Union and it's history.
Do you know anything about Westminster and Holyrood, their roles and relationship.
Do you know who King James I of England was or King James VI of Scotland?
Do you know anything about the Scottish or UK economies?

Or is it just that you dislike England for some reason?

reply to post by YeshuaPiso


I beg your pardon!

Jeebus...Sorry for the typo's and spelling errors... At least I am consistent, in which case I would only lose one mark in a test...

reply to post by stumason


I'm very much aware of the period and the various machinations of the Scottish nobles and Edward. I'm glad we are in agreement that Scotland was then, for a short period, a vassal state of the English king.

However, you need to be wary of embracing some kind of 'Mel Gibson' history.

There is very little reliable evidence that Robert the Bruce (ie. Robert I of Scotland), as opposed to his father or grandfather, 'fought' for the English. At most, when his father was appointed Warden of the Western Marches, he helped to protect Carlisle from elements supporting the Balliols and Comyns - the other claimants of the Crown of Scotland.

In the 'Battle of Falkirk' depicted in Braveheart - not only was the Bruce not present but he sent a detachment of his men to fight on Wallace's side. He, however, did not fight with the Scots army - as you say, to protect his own interests and power.

reply to post by stumason


And Robert Bruce was of Norman ancestry - the direct descendant of the Robert de Brus, 1st Lord of Annandale - so no more Scottish (or British) than the English kings!

(as inded was Alan fitz Flaad - progenitor of the Stuart kingship

reply to post by stumason


I also notice that you support the fight for English Democracy - as do I.

Presumably, you believe in the principle per se and not just as something that applies to Englishmen. In that case, we have no argument - for that is all my countrymen seek.

I also speak as the father of three English sons - so no one needs to explain to me about the relative purity (or otherwise) of indigenous bloodlines.

Maybe its time to call in those of Scottish descent from around the world to come and swear allegience to the clans that have been holding ground in the homeland. I would swear allegience to Clan Frazier. I'm all for a revolution. Even the Romans couldn't beat the Scots, they just built a wall....

reply to post by bigyin

Independance for scotland boils down to this simple question

Does more money flow south than north?

its a fact that money flows south and we get some if not most of it back but if scotland was leeching as some would say was really the case then sorry, westminseter would be forcing a referendum not trying to derail one.

simple as that

"This is interesting, there seems to be a large orange hedge moving towards us"

"That not a hedge....it's the Scots"

reply to post by PapaKrok


Sorry, I really don't mean this as a personal insult but do you realise how much of an idiot that post makes you look, especially to Scots.

reply to post by Essan



Indeed, which just highlights the fact that portraying the whole episode as "English vs Scots" is disengenuos, as everyone had mixed loyalties, origins and interests.

reply to post by YeshuaPiso


Indeed I am, well, in a form. All I seek and what the English Democrats seek is an English parliament to deal with English issues. See my post about Tuition fees, for example. I actually don't want to see an end to the Union, but rather a better deal for England, which has been given the short end of the stick and suffers from EU attacks on our national integrity as they try to break us up into regions...

Originally posted by EvanB

Enough of that ...... somebody answer the question ...... is it extremist to want independence for your own country ?

reply to post by bigyin

 

Absolutely not!

I cant wait for the day when we get our independance from the EU too.

It will be like the good ole days again.

Thank you and I admire your ambition.

You see this is what gets me about English people and some of the things they say. I don't think they are even aware of how they sound, but English are constantly telling Scotland how it can't run itself, it will fail, it can't manage anything, they cost a fortune, they are subsidy junkies, etc etc. If anybody was to come on and say the same or similar things about England there would be all hell break out and the op would be decried as a lunatic.

But the English seem to think it's alright to denegarde Scotland all they like and we Scots are just supposed to take it and stfu.

Well tbh we don't care what English think Scotland can or can't do. It doesn't matter to us. If we want independence then we will have it and no amount of whinging and whining by any English person will make any difference.

Notice how if the EU or any european comes on and says anything about Britain or England which the English don't care for there is an outcry. The tabloids go nuts, they start talking about good ol blighty, and mention the war and dunkirk and fighting on beaches and all manner of jingoism.

No the English do not like anybody telling them what to do ...... quite right I say.

So how come the like to put down Scotland at any opportunity.

Btw my wife was born in Liverpool, and she supports SNP and indepence. In fact I know loads of English people who have moved up here and they are more independent minded than some of our an folk.

Go up the North of Scotland on the West Coast and just about every single person living up there is English.

Originally posted by PapaKrok
Even the Romans couldn't beat the Scots, they just built a wall....

Hmmm...

The "Scots" didn't exist in Roman times, it was the Picts around then. If you bother to look it up, you'll find the Picts themselves were taken over by Gaelic/Anglo-Saxon people's and none remain today.

reply to post by bigyin


For me, this isn't about telling you what to do, but rather trying to make you see you have been sold a pack of lies by a politician trying to feather his own nest and dillusions of grandeur.

The Union is strong when we work together. Our countries have done more for the world, relative to our size, than almost any other nation on the planet. Breaking us up only serves one interest and that is the wet-dreams of the EU federalists who have been trying to break apart the Union and eat us peicemeal for years...

If Scotland falls, so does England. And I can only see Scotland falling because it serves the EU's interests and they will make it happen. We have far more in common with each other than we do those continentals.

reply to post by stumason


Well I have met Alex Salmond on several occassions and I think he is a very genuine person. I don't think he is feathering his nest or has delusions of grandeur.

Quite the opposite, he has worked tirelessly for the SNP for a very long time, he comes from humble roots and he wants to see Scotland prosper and have a fair society for all.

It's due to this outlook that he has become popular in Scotland.

Can you say the same about Thatcher, Blair or Cameron ?

Actually I liked Mrs Thatcher, but thats another story.

btw SNP and independence is not a new phenomena. The party was formed in 1934.

Oh please hurry and let Scotland gain independence!!

Then we can finally watch them calling for our aid when they lose all their little perks.

One being no more free University. They want independence, then let them have it In every way.

Then watch as the Scots run to emigrate to England like the rest of Europe, wonder why?

had to laugh there .... on the news they pointed out that there are more Giant Panda's in Scotland than Tory MP's !!

reply to post by DAZ21


We don't have free university, so you don't know what your talking about

reply to post by stumason


You're particular brand of 'lucky bag' history is beginning to grate a little bit...

The 'Scots' didn't exist then..... the OP obviously meant the tribes inhabiting Scotland at the time (and you are correct, they were the Picts) but if we are going to use technicalities to pick people up - then the Scots (ie. Yscoti/Scoti/Scots) did 'exist' at that time - in Ireland.

After some internecine friction, the Scots and Picts united under Kenneth MacAlpin - first King of Scotland.

However, I'm more interested in your other posts which reveal more.

You do support 'democracy' but in a limited way you seem to be saying - ie. English independence from Europe but no Scottish independence from the UK.

Your assertion that England has always gotten the short end of the stick will, quite frankly, be laughed at in Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales.

And your xenophobic undertones about 'Continentals' explain why English audiences always equate Scottish independence with anti-Englishness when this is clearly not the case. It is merely the wish of a people to have control of their own affairs - just as you wish to achieve.

reply to post by Freeborn


And you, my friend, only want one thing from Government - your mail.

In that case, why do you have any interest in how the rest of us choose to be governed? Or is it just a catchphrase, like 'Chase me' or 'Shut that door'?