Deputy Leader of UK calls Scots Extremists

Oh dear what a thread.

Have read every page in this tit for tat, anti English, anti Scottish thread.

As Cameron would say calm down.

As for the topic of discussion.

So what is the problem with Scotland becoming independent?

The country would be the exact same as any other who is in the Commonwealth. I have never heard anyone whine, moan cry, whenever any other country that was part of the Old British Empire, (Which I may add, is now dead buried forgotten about), became independent.

Besides if Scotland became independent, why not Wales next, then England have its own parliament once again.

The rhetoric being played out by these politicians does not do anyone any favors. It will just add to any future conflicts or disputes both countries have in the future.

How ever I will state, if The United Kingdom is to be broken up, then all of the UK should have a say on it. Not just Scotland.

After the vote anyways then let the bickering fighting start.

reply to post by EvanB


Scotland will be Europe's bitch?

Isn't England's history full of successful invasions by whatever European tribe fancied a piece of the action? The Romans, The Vikings, The Jutes, The Angles, The Normans?

With all that foreign blood down there, we may indeed be Europe's bitch but at least we're not mongrels.

As for dimwit Nick Clegg, what do you excpect since hardly anyone in Scotland voted for any of his parliament MP's, both south and north off the border.

Message to Nick Clegg, Dont come to Scotland no one likes you here.

Originally posted by bigyin
It is sad there is so much bickering between Scottish and English. I don't think it needs to be that way.

Indeed. I like Scotland, I have family there, it's a lovely country...But, I have encountered so much vitriol from Scots simply because I am English due to misconceptions and, to be honest, downright falsehoods about history.

Originally posted by bigyin
Yes the SNP got in due to the failure of Labour. However, prior to this the population of Scotland was wary of the SNP and didn't know whether to trust them in government or not. Since getting in they have done such a good job that now the vast majoirty have lost their previous fear and are quite happy to let Big Eck run the place.

Indeed again and I have no issue with whatever the Scots decide. But remember, Scottish spending is, per capita, some £1500 higher than in England. Scottish spending outstrips the potential tax base and then some, meaning it is subsidised by the rest of the Union's taxpayers.

On top of that, Scottish MP's are the sole reason we in England have tuition fees, despite Labour promising in the previous election not to bring them in.

The vote was passed in the UK parliamant by a majority less than the amount of Scots Labour MP's that voted for it, meaning if English and Welsh MP's had a vote without Scottish MP's present, voting on an issue only affecting England and Wales, then it wouldn't have passed!

Originally posted by bigyin
Yes North England has had a rough time of it as well, so has Wales and other places. That is not for Scotland to worry about. The English should govern themselves and sort out their own problems.

Oh, we'd love to, but England is the only nation in the Union not to have a say in it's own affairs without everyone else chiming in. See above and it's not the only example.

Originally posted by bigyin
The place I see nationalistic tendancies the most is in England. I was in Newcastle last week and saw loads of cars going about with England flags on them. We don't do that in Scotland. We know who we are and don't need a flag to remind us.

No, you guys just attack people with English flags instead! There were several cases during the last world cup were English in Scotland were physically assaulted simply for being English. It's a bit of a generalisation to claim Scottish aren't nationalist.... There is definately a strong undercurrent of it that rears it's head quite often. Also, just watch next time Scotland gets into a major tournament, you guys come out with the tartan and St Andrews cross just as much as we do...

Originally posted by bigyin
I would challenge anyone to name a country on the planet that has a much resources as Scotland for such a small place. It's not just oil, we have wind, wave, tidal, hydro, nuclear, coal, gas and even timber to produce energy.

What a rediculous assertion.

Firstly, tidal is expensive, not proven and of questionable value. It remains to be seen if anyone can make good on any investment in tidal. That said, we have tides too!

Wind is unreliable, expensive, poorly implemented and wthe Grid hates it. They simply cannot budget for wind power on any large scale, simply due to its tendancy to blow, not blow, blow, not blow, stop blowing altogther for ages, blow to strongly for ages, not blow....

Nuclear, you have 2 reactors, both due to be decomissioned by the end of the decade with Alec Salmond saying "No!" to any new plants.

Coal and Gas, well we have ample supplies of them too. But these are going out of fashion and are likely to not be a reliable revenue earner in the future.

As for your size and relative resources it is a bold claim to make that your are the richest in the world, based on size. It's all very well having these "resources" but the big question is whether you can actually make economic use of them. Banking your whole nations future on unproven and costly technolgies is a risk, a big risk.

Originally posted by bigyin
We have agriculture and livestock to feed ourselves, as well as fish stocks.

I would be very surprised if Scotland could feed itself on it's agriculture. The whole of the UK can only produce around 60% of it's food needs. Plus, how much cereals does Scotland farm? Certainly not enough to feed everyone as the bulk of it goes to making your whisky.

Originally posted by bigyin
Enough of that ...... somebody answer the question ...... is it extremist to want independence for your own country ?

It is when you're lying through your teeth to sell people a pipe dream that won't happen. Scotland is, by no stretch of the imagination, self-suffcient.

reply to post by Laurauk


LauraUK, I admire your measured approach but would like to make one point only.

We are not talking about the breaking up of the Union but the reassertion of a nation state's independence - indeed, the reassertion of Europe's oldest, territorially-intact, nation state.

And did India, the United States or any other former colony ask the permission of the UK when they opted for independence?

Originally posted by YeshuaPiso
reply to post by Laurauk

 

LauraUK, I admire your measured approach but would like to make one point only.

We are not talking about the breaking up of the Union but the reassertion of a nation state's independence - indeed, the reassertion of Europe's oldest, territorially-intact, nation state.

And did India, the United States or any other former colony ask the permission of the UK when they opted for independence?

Since when was Scotland a British colony?

Originally posted by YeshuaPiso

Scotland will be Europe's bitch?

Isn't England's history full of successful invasions by whatever European tribe fancied a piece of the action? The Romans, The Vikings, The Jutes, The Angles, The Normans?

With all that foreign blood down there, we may indeed be Europe's bitch but at least we're not mongrels.

I was just waiting for someone to be a plank and start this side of the coin up....

Firstly, lets go back to the Roman period, when we can safely say the inhabitants of these isles were the "originals". The Picts, the ones in Scotland at the time, were virtually wiped out by Irish Gaelic invaders, who make up the bulk of the Highland population now.

The Lowlanders, especially around Edinburgh, are Anglo Saxon in origin. Why do you think Edinburgh is called such? It was a town in the Kingdom of Northumbria, an anglo-saxon kingdom. Later taken over by Scottish invaders.

Vikings? You'll find that many of the islanders, especially Orkney and such, will have Viking descent.

And the modern "Scots" language? You'll love this one, being a proud, "pure" Scot, but it's actual an Anglo-Saxon dialect stemming from the Northumbrians.

Not mongrels....

You're like the rest of us matey, we're all mongrels!

One of the oldest tricks Government (rulers) use. When people are discontent and angry with their leaders the leaders will do everything they can to divide the people and pit them against each other. This changes the focus of the people's anger and also creates a false perception of these leaders being the "good guys" in trying to solve the rift they created.

Originally posted by YeshuaPiso
reply to post by Laurauk

 

LauraUK, I admire your measured approach but would like to make one point only.

We are not talking about the breaking up of the Union but the reassertion of a nation state's independence - indeed, the reassertion of Europe's oldest, territorially-intact, nation state.

And did India, the United States or any other former colony ask the permission of the UK when they opted for independence?

India was promised independance for it's part in WW2.

The USA was kind of forced into it, but didn't really want to until it was the last straw.

The rest of the colonies were granted indendence due to committments we made at the end of the War to decolonise.

Buit of a useless and moot point, especially as Scotland was never a colony and actually requested to join the Union in the first place, while a Scottish King sat on the throne of England no less!

reply to post by EvanB


Never. However, whether we like it or not, for various short periods, we were a vassal state of an English King.

I referenced the US and India as colonies - not Scotland.

Originally posted by YeshuaPiso
reply to post by EvanB

 

Scotland will be Europe's bitch?

Isn't England's history full of successful invasions by whatever European tribe fancied a piece of the action? The Romans, The Vikings, The Jutes, The Angles, The Normans?

With all that foreign blood down there, we may indeed be Europe's bitch but at least we're not mongrels.

Purlease!!

Those invasions had ZERO impact on English bloodlines! But if we are all mongrels here, then thats ok; mongrels are clever, free of pedigree disease and

our

mum would not be our sister

With Germany selling it's six-month bonds with a negative yield, I would say that at the moment perhaps the question of Scottish independence might end up being shoved onto the back burner if the EU crashes and we, as a nation are forced to work together to survive, nothing like a bit of adversity to help seal bonds of friendship.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Or not.. as the case may be

reply to post by stumason


Again, I never referred to Scotland as a 'colony'.

And I believe our American friends would object to your statement that they were 'forced' into independence even though they didn't really want it.

reply to post by YeshuaPiso


You really need to stop drinking the SNP kool-aid and avail yourself of the historical facts, mate!

Vassal of an English king? Maybe, occasionally, but by and large you were independant and warred with us frequently. Like I said above, at the time of Union, we had a Scottish King on the English throne!

Those invasions had ZERO impact on English bloodlines!

In a forum of some rather ridiculous statements we may just have found a winner.

reply to post by stumason


I'm talking of the period around the Wars of Independence - 400 years before the Union. You're the one who needs a history lesson.

Originally posted by YeshuaPiso
Again, I never referred to Scotland as a 'colony'.

When you say "When did India, the USA or any other former colony.....", you are at least implying that Scotland was one as well.

Originally posted by YeshuaPiso
And I believe our American friends would object to your statement that they were 'forced' into independence even though they didn't really want it.

Any one of them that knows the truth as opposed to the chest thumping "we beat the Brits" stuff will agree. The colonies originally just wanted some self-governance or representation in Parliament, which was denied them. War was seen as a last resort and wasn't largely supported by all colonists. A good many actually fought for the Corwn and many more moved North to Canada or to the Carribbean to leave the "traitors".

I like History.....

Politician being a POS... what's new?

If the Scottish people choose to gain FULL independence, more power to them.

reply to post by stumason


And I did try to avoid this (I hate pedants) but please try to spell independence and independent correctly.

Originally posted by YeshuaPiso

Those invasions had ZERO impact on English bloodlines!

In a forum of some rather ridiculous statements we may just have found a winner.

edit on 9-1-2012 by YeshuaPiso because: (no reason given)

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