Deputy Leader of UK calls Scots Extremists

reply to post by boaby_phet


From The Scottish Governments own website.

SCOTS STUDENT STUDYING IN SCOTLAND
What do I have to pay?

Eligible Scottish domiciled students studying full-time in Scotland are not required to pay tuition fees if studying for a first degree or equivalent

www.scotland.gov.uk...

I think the confusion here maybe about Tuition Fees

English University students not only have there normal expenses to pay for, the same as Scottish students, but also now they pay an annual sum direct to the University where they are studying at for their tuition.
There is no tuition fee for Scottish University students.
In addition, English students are charged tuition fees at Scottish Universities but Scottish students are not charged tuition fees at English Universities.

reply to post by bigyin


No problems - it seems we are all learning a few things today.

I think the confusion has stemmed from the term 'tuition fees' which Scottish students don't have to pay.

Of course Scottish students still incur an awful cost, a University education is never cheap - except for the middle classes upwards.

Please forgive me, I am American, who has been all over the world.

And to me, some of the English people, are the most arrogant people on planet Earth.

England, afraid that its once mighty empire might dissolve, into the true states that once existed, will go kicking and screaming into the night, forever cursing those, who would want to rule themselves.

Only my opinion.

always said liberals were the extremists,bigots and hypocrites the lot of them,oh and i forgot liars!seems mr clegg has proved my point,knob!

Scotland would be efficient in independence actually, think about it, the land is mostly nature. 5 million population. We could grow crops for ourselves easily = lower food prices and a better community. Thats one plus point for a start

reply to post by stumason

At the time of the Act of Union i am pretty sure it was Queen Anne that was sitting on the throne,not long after the death of the dutch William of Orange

Wheres Edward 1 Longshanks when you need him?

reply to post by Hendrix92TheUniverse



Sorry I don't mean to sound like a dick or anything but this is such a wrong view to take on things - Taring any population with a single tag is completely counter productive for sorting out the problems of the world - You're playing into the hands of TPTB.

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In England now you have to pay 9000k just to study, this is not including the money they loan to you for housing and books.

I went to uni 2010, I had to drop out because I couldn't support myself. Lucky for me, i only ended up borrowing 7k for a year. Now that wouldn't even cover getting to university, let alone the cost of living (which lets face it is also going through the roof). If i lived in Scotland, I would of been able to support myself.

-

The powers that Scotland had during pre-Labour government 1997/8 i.e under the Thatcher era etc were completely different, I know you mentioned the PollTax (riots happened here about that too).

I think the thing is, and its my only real point and I believe someone else said something similar - Westminster is not an English Parliament, Scottish, Irish and Welsh mps can vote on things solely effect England but English Mps due to devolution do not have a vote (say) in the running of these countries.

So Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland do not actually fair that bad in the whole thing - If you look at the social policies of these countries it is far better than what we have here in England.
Do I want a break up of the United Kingdom? No - I'm half Scottish and half English, we have a long history of unity, working together and a rich history - I don't see going back to the middle ages as something which is progressive. Though don't get me wrong I'm not a fan of centralisation quite the opposite, i think everything should be devolved to local level, but I don't see the plus side for the Scottish people in this.

Britain has a long history of the supresion of independence, from Egypt to Iraq. It is only once the occupation became to costly did the English release their subjects.

Originally posted by bigyin
This week theres seems to have been a raft of gaffs from senior politicians in Westminster.

Here is the latest one which I have a personal interest in. LINK

According to Nick Clegg (who ?) anyone who supports the idea of an Independant Scotland is an extremist.

I don't see myself as an extremist, I have been a card carrying member of the SNP for the past 30 years and have always called for an independent Scotland. For years I was in a minority in Scotland as most folk voted Labour. But for the past few years now the SNP has far and away been the most popular political party in Scotland.

Therefore Nick Cleg is calling the majority of Scots extremists.

The guy is a buffoon and totally clueless.

Methinks they are getting deparate.

Well at least youre better off than you were in the days of William Wallace and Robert the Bruce. Better technology is always a plus. I doubt you'll have to bring it down to violence this go around. There's alot of "new" countries being born from the ashes of old ones. My ancestors were Welsh but, good luck!

I can't wait to vote YES to independence.

Even though we have our own parliament and our own laws, it seems that WestminsterDICTATE the rules of this referendum vote. Yet David Cameron denies it? They want the referendum vote to happen in 18 months time...even though the SNP said in their manifesto that it would be 2014 during their next term.
Cameron "denies" dictating terms of referendum

Another thing that annoys me is that people say the SNP are basically another conservative party...even though they're social democrats. Anybody else had someone say this to them?

Clegg is a moron, the only good thing about him is he isn't very good at being a politician and hiding his true colours, it gave millions of students who were otherwise apathetic in this country a taste of the establishment.

I just thought of this random thought, though I'm not sure it will happen in this one.

2005 - Blair promised a referendum on EU
2010 - Cameron promised a referendum on the EU

Not an expert on devolution or Scottish law - Didn't finish my politics degree and only studied it at A level but i'm pretty certain (at least I know for a fact in English Law) that no party has to even follow their election pledges.
Meaning - This whole talk of independence could be complete and utter rubbish/lies and when the time comes which is what 2014? They could either brush it under the carpet or come up with some other reason.

I'm a bit of a cynic and pessimist don't trust any of these Governments and don't think the Government that we see is elected or anything of the sort - The shadow government decides who gets put into power, so TPTB want SNP in power.

reply to post by RebellionOutlaw

Do I want a break up of the United Kingdom? No - I'm half Scottish and half English, we have a long history of unity, working together and a rich history - I don't see going back to the middle ages as something which is progressive.

Aye because we really enjoyed being forced into a partnership!

Things change...first the empire goes, now it's the commonwealth (Jamaica, Australia, Canada etc.)... next it's the Union. There is no need for it, and we have our own law and parliament. We can take care of ourselves.

And when we do leave the union...we're taking our oil, gas, gold, our clean water, our offshore windfarms, and any other natural resources.

Good luck in providing energy for your country of 51 million.

Scotland was raped years ago, you don't have anything worth having, you weren't forced into a partnership, like I shown earlier, It was a Scottish King which laid the foundations for Great Britain, the last prime minister of Great Britain was Scottish, its not like it was say in the days of the Empire and even in the days of the Empire, Scotland benefited greatly from being within the United Kingdom. I don't think a referendum will bring about a yes vote anyway.

If Great Britain never happened, Scotland would of ceased to exist - It was a positive thing which helped your country become something Great on the world stage, one of the major players in the industrial revolution.

We wouldn't of been locked in oil wars for the past thirty years if there was so much of for grabs in Scotland. Yes you have good renewable energy - this doesn't go into any grind within England. Nationalism is a negative force in this world, which is anything but progressive or a force positivity - I think the SNP vote isn't even a vote for Scottish nationalism but a two finger salute to EU-Nazi-Technocrats + They only got in power due to economic crisis and a rubbish Labour party.

Also, even if the referendum vote is a yes which at present is very unlikely - they will just do what they done in Ireland and split the Highlands and the Lowlands and redraw the map so Scotland wouldn't exist with the same border it has now.

BTW - have fun paying over inflated price for cheap energy
www.guardian.co.uk...

The Scottish people would have to face more cuts than we are facing here in England if independence were to take place, Scotland would be in a very bad place - We need each other for our own survival and we have done for generations upon generations upon generations.

Think its important to add this - Even though I hate Clegg.

Election turnout for 2011 - 50% therefore half of the eligible voters didn't vote, the SNP had a majority, so lets just say thats 25% - therefore of all the eligible voters Clegg is calling a quarter of Scots extremists.
en.wikipedia.org...


Just checked it, they got 45.39% of the vote - which means they didn't even get 25% of the overall eligible votes (if you include the other 50% who didn't take part in the elections).

If you check the graphs out, Labour party wasn't even that far behind SNP - If the Labour party had its act together doubt SNP would of even got into power - I doubt the SNP will win the referendum and when they lose it their party will be destroyed.

reply to post by HallamFoe

Aye because we really enjoyed being forced into a partnership!

Scotland wasn't forced into anything.
A Scottish King was on the throne of both England and Scotland at the time and the Scottish nobility had suffered the ignomy of The Darien scheme which had almost bankrupt the country.

Things change...first the empire goes, now it's the commonwealth (Jamaica, Australia, Canada etc.)...

We gave The Empire back.....something which Scotland was a full and active partner in.
Scotsmen were at the heart of The Empire and Scotland prospered thanks to the trade it generated.
Dundee and Jute is just one example that springs to mind.

The Commonwealth is thriving and none of the countries you mentioned have seriously considered resigning from it.
In fact nations like Cameroon which have no colonial links to the UK continue to seek membership of The Commonwealth.

next it's the Union. There is no need for it, and we have our own law and parliament. We can take care of ourselves.

I sincerely hope that The Union is maintained and we work together to change our countries and united nation into something we can all be proud of.

I don't doubt for one minute that England will survive....a totally independant Scotland would be in real danger of being swallowed up by the Euro monster.
And is survival the summit of your national ambition?

Personally I believe the UK has the talent and wherewithal to flourish and thrive again on the world stage and if we work together develop a united kingdom to be proud of.

And when we do leave the union...we're taking our oil, gas, gold, our clean water, our offshore windfarms, and any other natural resources.

All been covered before in this thread.

Good luck in providing energy for your country of 51 million.

Zzzzz.
We'll be fine.

Although Clegg is a complete uselss person and his comment should be ignored
we should let Scotland be independent and get them away from the rest of the UK.

They are a pointless country with zero to offer on the world stage. On their own they could neither
prosper or defend themselves or offer assistance to any other nation.

Scotland is a place where poverty and disease run rampant. they contribute nothing to the world stage
and without them no one and i mean NO ONE in the UK would bat an eyelid - except the scots. But who are they?

Scotland had no choice to trade far from home in other countries due to the Parliament of England passing the "Alien Act 1705".

England bans Scottish imports unless union talks are held

And...

Scotland bribed into unification

Even more direct bribery was also said to be a factor. [21] £20,000 (£240,000 Scots) was dispatched to Scotland for distribution by the Earl of Glasgow. James Douglas, 2nd Duke of Queensberry, the Queen's Commissioner in Parliament, received £12,325, the majority of the funding. (Some contend that all of this money was properly accounted for as compensation for loss of office, pensions and so forth not outwith the usual run of government. It is perhaps a debate that will never be set to rest. However, modern research has shown that payments were made to supporters of union that appear not to have been overdue salaries. At least four payments were made to people who were not even members of the Scottish Parliament.)

Like oor Rabbie said:

"We're bought and sold for English Gold,
Sic a Parcel of Rogues in a Nation."

Originally posted by YeshuaPiso
You're particular brand of 'lucky bag' history is beginning to grate a little bit...

As much as the tired old nonsense trotted out time again about how the English have oppressed the Scots? Maybe you can appreciate why the English get so rield up on this topic? And it's hardly "lucky bag", but granted I have simplified it for ease of communication and to not derail the thread with off topic discussions going into great depth about 1,500 year old history.

Originally posted by YeshuaPiso[/
The 'Scots' didn't exist then..... the OP obviously meant the tribes inhabiting Scotland at the time (and you are correct, they were the Picts) but if we are going to use technicalities to pick people up - then the Scots (ie. Yscoti/Scoti/Scots) did 'exist' at that time - in Ireland.

They didn't call themselves that though, did they? That's like saying the "English" existed in 200BC. Technically, they did, as various Germanic tribes who would, much later, migrate and blend together with each other and the natives of these islands.

For someone who threw a hissy over my spelling of independence earlier, bitching about me using "technicalities" is a bit rich.

Originally posted by YeshuaPiso
You do support 'democracy' but in a limited way you seem to be saying - ie. English independence from Europe but no Scottish independence from the UK.

Your assertion that England has always gotten the short end of the stick will, quite frankly, be laughed at in Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales.

You have got totally the wrong end of the stick, mate. I support the UK's independence from Europe, not just England. For England, I want a Parliament where we can decide our own laws. At the moment, we cannot without Welsh, Scots and Irish MP's having a say as well. I am pro-Union though, but if we're going to have devolution then we need it in all member states.

As a Scot who is obviously up in arms about the English telling the Scots what to do and who would certainly be upset if English MP's sat at Hollyrood, I think you should be able to appreciate the English position.

Originally posted by YeshuaPiso
And your xenophobic undertones about 'Continentals' explain why English audiences always equate Scottish independence with anti-Englishness when this is clearly not the case. It is merely the wish of a people to have control of their own affairs - just as you wish to achieve.

Hardly xenophobic, I was just lumping all of them into one basket rather than whining about a particular nation in Europe as it is the whole institution of the EU I have a problem with.

As for my equating of Scottish independence to anti-English, well, the two go hand in hand as you can see from this thread. Scots want independence and in doing so, always take the chance to rubbish the English and spread falsehoods about us, the oil, history and who pays for what. I never took the offensive in this thread, but rather went on the defensive to counter some right silly comments about the English and this whole affair.

As I have stated, I have no problem with the Scots. I work with them, I have family who are Scottish, I think the country is very nice and I have no problem with your Parliament. What I do have an issue with is Scots sitting happily with their own Government while England remains without it's own Parliament, all the while bitching about how bad we make your lives.

Originally posted by EvanB
I just hope that the dirty scummy EU keeps its dirty fingers off any part of this island.

That is my only fear

That is my biggest worry. Divide and rule, that's the game. The EU has been rubbing it's hands with glee at the prospect of the UK breaking up. It's even been producing documents for the last several years that has all but wiped England off the map, instead bunching us all together into regions, with the Southern ones being part of regions HQ'd in France! If the EU can break the UK, then it's game over.

Originally posted by DAZ21
It feels like getting stabbed in the back by a friend.

That is pretty much the sentiment in a nutshell.

reply to post by Freeborn

 

Again, sums it up nicely as well. What really gets my goat about this whole affair is everyone bending over backwards to make the Scots feel happy, grant them their own parliament, give them a referendum.

Where's ours? Why won;t anyone listen to us? Why are we being marginilised in our own country?

I don't expect Scots to understand though, they get what they want, are allowed to be proud of their nation and they have escaped the bad reputation the UK may have accumulated over the years, despite a heavy involvement, while the English carry the can, get called racists and pay the bills.