Reasons the King James Bible is Superior to the "Originals"

Originally posted by dilly1

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by dilly1

 

You deliberately ignore all the obvious evidence that the KJB was translated and written under Sir Francis Bacons watch.

You mean all the 'obvious evidence' you never provided to back up your claims? Yes, we 'deliberately ignored' something that wasn't there, is that frowned upon these days?

Ahh, another christian scared of attempting objective research(WONDER WHY). Its ok if you need to be some one else's body guard. Should I call you Sir NOT?

It's not my job to 'research" and provide supporting links for YOUR statements, that's your job.

The burden of proof is always on the person making an assertion or proposition. Shifting the burden of proof, a special case of argumentum ad ignorantium, is the fallacy of putting the burden of proof on the person who denies or questions the assertion being made. The source of the fallacy is the assumption that something is true unless proven otherwise.

Shifting the Burden of Proof.

Especially troubling is when you made the comment that we Christians "IGNORING" a "huge amount of provided "EVIDENCE" that what you said was correct, yet you provided zero of this "EVIDENCE" to us to have allegedly "IGNORED".

reply to post by dilly1

And you keep posting subjective links as a source? As proof??

It's still A LINK. Where are your links????

HERE is a non-Christian source, scroll down to the subheading titled "MISCONCEPTIONS":

The Biblical Canon

Main article: Development of the Christian Biblical canon

A number of erroneous views have been stated regarding the council's role in establishing the Biblical Canon. In fact, there is no record of any discussion of the Biblical Canon at the council at all. The development of the Biblical Canon took centuries, and was nearly complete (with exceptions known as the Antilegomena) by the time the Muratorian fragment was written, perhaps as early as 150 years before the council, but more likely in the 4th century, specifically at the Council of Carthage in 397 and 419. In 331 Constantine commissioned fifty Bibles for the Church of Constantinople, but little else is known, though it has been speculated that this may have provided motivation for canon lists. In Jerome's Prologue to Judith he claims that the Book of Judith was "found by the Nicene Council to have been counted among the number of the Sacred Scriptures".

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by dilly1

 

And you keep posting subjective links as a source? As proof??

It's still A LINK. Where are your links????

HERE is a non-Christian source, scroll down to the subheading titled "MISCONCEPTIONS":

The Biblical Canon

Main article: Development of the Christian Biblical canon

A number of erroneous views have been stated regarding the council's role in establishing the Biblical Canon. In fact, there is no record of any discussion of the Biblical Canon at the council at all. The development of the Biblical Canon took centuries, and was nearly complete (with exceptions known as the Antilegomena) by the time the Muratorian fragment was written, perhaps as early as 150 years before the council, but more likely in the 4th century, specifically at the Council of Carthage in 397 and 419. In 331 Constantine commissioned fifty Bibles for the Church of Constantinople, but little else is known, though it has been speculated that this may have provided motivation for canon lists. In Jerome's Prologue to Judith he claims that the Book of Judith was "found by the Nicene Council to have been counted among the number of the Sacred Scriptures".

edit on 10-1-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

To respond both your posts:

Where did Wikipedia get there info?

Where did Philip Percorino get his info??

That's my point. We don't know and they don't know the actual accounts nor the facts. They think they do.. And so do you.

Wikipedia is the encyclopedia of disinformation. This rampant "link" trading is the problem with people being deceived with fabricated internet information.

I suggest you read the BOOK called "Forged" by Bart D. Ehrman,,,,its a great read and I guarantee you ,,it will open your eyes.

Originally posted by dilly1

I suggest you read the BOOK called "Forged" by Bart D. Ehrman,,,,its a great read and I guarantee you ,,it will open your eyes.

He won't. He always keeps attacking my Holy Book - yet when I tell him he should read it, he refuses to do so.

So he will refuse to read Prof. Ehrman's books too.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

It's not my job to 'research" and provide supporting links for YOUR statements, that's your job.

That, friend, is the self same argument I get from Christians all the time. "It's not my job to research my religion and Bible." "I don't have time for that." "It is a sin to question the word of God."

This is called Blind Faith. There is actually a great deal of evidence that Sir Francis Bacon did in fact have at least some input with the authorization of the King James Bible of 1611. Some men had to write it, because God did not write any books, and you know that as well as I do.

King James I and Sir Francis Bacon

Francis Bacon and the King James Bible

Now as for the Kabbalaistic influences in the KJV Bible, having studied the Kabbala, I can see it in there myself. I have read a lot of books written by men, and I have to tell you, that does not make them all true.

I JUST WANT TO ADD ANOTHER POINT ABOUT WIKIPEDIA:

Wikipedia speeds up the dumbing down of America. Every lazy American school kid, who needs to write a paper, will look at the Wikipedia entry first, copy it down, and then it's the end of so-called "research." Dumbing Down of America: Mission Accomplished. Jimmy Wales, you should be SO proud...

5 Additional Reasons why the King James Bible is Superior to the "Originals"

6. God Himself said His words would never pass away. All the originals are GONE. They are either destroyed, burned, buried, eroded, corroded, decomposed, or just plain missing. So either God lied and His words really did "pass away", or we still have God's very words as He wanted us to have them:

Malachi 3:6
"I am the LORD, I change not."

Matthew 24:35
"..the Lord Jesus said, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

7. The KJV is the only Bible on the English "market" that does not add made up words to the text in order to avoid copyright infringements from other publishing companies!! Can you imagine one publishing company suing another over printing the Bible? Well, it happened, that is why all new bibles must change a certain amount of words in order to not infringe on another english perversion.

Revelation 22:18-19, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Proverbs 30:5-6, Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

8. The Dead Sea Scrolls. Many of these scrolls match WORD FOR WORD with the King James Bible's translation of the text, and even whole Books of the Bible. That should be all that needs to be said about this subject.

9. The italic words in the KJV. These words that appear as italics were placed in the translation to show the full meaning of the original language word. The KJV translators had enough honesty and integrity to show a difference in the text they had to provide by italicizing it.
But the biggest and most incredible discovery about the italicized words of the KJV translators is that the italicized words are themselves inspired by God as well!!!! Proof? ↓↓↓

The below verses are from the Old Testament that the KJV translators used italicized words in. The verses to their right are New Testament verses that DO NOT have italicized words in them, yet the people quoting them USE THE ITALICIZED WORDS of the old Testament!!! How can this be unless God directly guided the hands of the KJV translators in order to provide an accurate and complete translation BETTER than the originals.
Look up these verses if you are a Christian and be amazed:

Isa. 28:16 → I Pet. 2:6 → Peter quoting the KJV translators!
Deu. 25:4 → I Cor. 9:9 & I Tim. 5:18 → Paul quoting the KJV translators!
Psa. 82:6 → John 10:34 → Jesus Christ quoting the KJV translators!
Deu. 8:3 → Mat. 4:4 → Again
Psa. 16:8 → Acts 2:25 → Luke quoting the KJV translators!

If the KJV is good enough for Paul, Peter, Luke and Jesus Christ, its good enough for me!

10. And lastly, one of my favorites, since many of you didn't seem to understand the importance of Jeremiah 36 of God not caring about His "originals" being destroyed...I decided to give you another account of God's "originals" being destroyed....but this time by GOD HIMSELF!

Remember after the king burnt the original in Jer. 36 and God told Jeremiah to write down another copy that He gave him? Well what God told Jeremiah to write is giving in Jeremiah chapters 45 through 51. So what does God do when He is done with giving the original and Jeremiah spoke these words to the king? Why look below to find out! ↓

Jeremiah 51:63
"And it shall be, when thou hast made an end of reading this book, that thou shalt bind a stone to it, and cast it into the midst of Euphrates: "

So where did we get the copy of Jeremiah 45-51 that we read today out of the KJV? Why it came from ANOTHER COPY OF A COPY! Original manuscripts mean less to God than a highly educated college professor. They are all counted as dung to Him.

Always remember peoples.....God does not, nor ever preserved any "original" manuscripts OR the language they were written in....what God preserves are the very WORDS themselves....which He INSPIRES as they are translated. Thus the King James Bible has a "double coat" of inspiration on it, and is FAR "Superior" than any originals.

P.s. Here is a little extra bit for you Christians out there. The Bible only uses the term translate three times. Each time, it deals with an original being made into something BETTER!
Your Christian lesson for today: A translation isn't only as good as the originals....it in fact can be better. The verses in question are:

II Samuel 3:7-10
Colossians 1:13
Hebrews 11:5

Look these verses up for a blessing.

reply to post by autowrench

That, friend, is the self same argument I get from Christians all the time.

So what at you trying to argue, that:

A: Shifting the burden of proof is not a fallacy of logic, therefore irrelevant? or
B: Christians are exempt from the fallacy and are required to provide the burden of proof for another person's arguments?

Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by KJV1611

 

A lot was lost in translation, because the original letters and language hides codes and revelations that the word for word translation misses.

There is a depth and structure that exceeds the mental capabilities of us mere humans and that identifies the true author.

Thankfully, we have most of both the "originals" and the translations.

May God grant you wisdom from all scriptures.

... and happy birthday to one of the most profound compilations of thought, heart and truth.

edit on 9/1/2012 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)

chr0naut shoots, he scores!!! Best reply to KJV1611 yet on this thread.

This is the only valid reason for holding on to the original autographs. They do in fact, hold a deep coding, as discovered by Ivan Panin, which indicates and proves their Divine Authorship. This is not the ELS coding so in vogue these days. KJV1611 states that it is only important for God to preserve His Words. Well, Panin demonstrated that the mathematical coding enabled the exact, perfect reconstruction of the original autographs, that is to say, God's Words. Yes, we can have our cake and eat it too.

Originally posted by KJV1611

5 Additional Reasons why the King James Bible is Superior to the "Originals"

6. God Himself said His words would never pass away. All the originals are GONE. They are either destroyed, burned, buried, eroded, corroded, decomposed, or just plain missing. So either God lied and His words really did "pass away", or we still have God's very words as He wanted us to have them:

Malachi 3:6
"I am the LORD, I change not."

Matthew 24:35
"..the Lord Jesus said, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

7. The KJV is the only Bible on the English "market" that does not add made up words to the text in order to avoid copyright infringements from other publishing companies!! Can you imagine one publishing company suing another over printing the Bible? Well, it happened, that is why all new bibles must change a certain amount of words in order to not infringe on another english perversion.

Revelation 22:18-19, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Proverbs 30:5-6, Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

8. The Dead Sea Scrolls. Many of these scrolls match WORD FOR WORD with the King James Bible's translation of the text, and even whole Books of the Bible. That should be all that needs to be said about this subject.

9. The italic words in the KJV. These words that appear as italics were placed in the translation to show the full meaning of the original language word. The KJV translators had enough honesty and integrity to show a difference in the text they had to provide by italicizing it.
But the biggest and most incredible discovery about the italicized words of the KJV translators is that the italicized words are themselves inspired by God as well!!!! Proof? ↓↓↓

The below verses are from the Old Testament that the KJV translators used italicized words in. The verses to their right are New Testament verses that DO NOT have italicized words in them, yet the people quoting them USE THE ITALICIZED WORDS of the old Testament!!! How can this be unless God directly guided the hands of the KJV translators in order to provide an accurate and complete translation BETTER than the originals.
Look up these verses if you are a Christian and be amazed:

Isa. 28:16 → I Pet. 2:6 → Peter quoting the KJV translators!
Deu. 25:4 → I Cor. 9:9 & I Tim. 5:18 → Paul quoting the KJV translators!
Psa. 82:6 → John 10:34 → Jesus Christ quoting the KJV translators!
Deu. 8:3 → Mat. 4:4 → Again
Psa. 16:8 → Acts 2:25 → Luke quoting the KJV translators!

If the KJV is good enough for Paul, Peter, Luke and Jesus Christ, its good enough for me!

10. And lastly, one of my favorites, since many of you didn't seem to understand the importance of Jeremiah 36 of God not caring about His "originals" being destroyed...I decided to give you another account of God's "originals" being destroyed....but this time by GOD HIMSELF!

Remember after the king burnt the original in Jer. 36 and God told Jeremiah to write down another copy that He gave him? Well what God told Jeremiah to write is giving in Jeremiah chapters 45 through 51. So what does God do when He is done with giving the original and Jeremiah spoke these words to the king? Why look below to find out! ↓

Jeremiah 51:63
"And it shall be, when thou hast made an end of reading this book, that thou shalt bind a stone to it, and cast it into the midst of Euphrates: "

So where did we get the copy of Jeremiah 45-51 that we read today out of the KJV? Why it came from ANOTHER COPY OF A COPY! Original manuscripts mean less to God than a highly educated college professor. They are all counted as dung to Him.

Always remember peoples.....God does not, nor ever preserved any "original" manuscripts OR the language they were written in....what God preserves are the very WORDS themselves....which He INSPIRES as they are translated. Thus the King James Bible has a "double coat" of inspiration on it, and is FAR "Superior" than any originals.

P.s. Here is a little extra bit for you Christians out there. The Bible only uses the term translate three times. Each time, it deals with an original being made into something BETTER!
Your Christian lesson for today: A translation isn't only as good as the originals....it in fact can be better. The verses in question are:

II Samuel 3:7-10
Colossians 1:13
Hebrews 11:5

Look these verses up for a blessing.

6- how do you know what god said? You don't ! So you use faith as support

7- this statement is an oxymoron. The fact that no one knows where or whom wrote the original scriptures and the KJB was written under Bacon's watch and the existence of different bibles ,,acknowledges the obvious conclusion that you all christian base everything on a delusional hunch. Or as you call it faith.

8- how do you know the words of the DS-scrolls match word for word in the KJB? Can you translate it yourself? How do you know the DS scrolls weren't created 100's of years after jesus? You don't ,, you don't!!! So you use faith as support.


9- inspired by god as well?? You show no proof of god. All you show are people writing words. Where do you see god!!!!!!!! You are in a delusional state.

10- you don't know what you read happened(s) as fact. All you do is hope what you read is fact. Supported by faith. You don't know Jeremiah wrote anything, nor god talking to Jeremiah. You just HOPE it happened.

And the proof why you are crazy and delusional is for this statement:

**"original manuscripts mean less to god than a highly educated college professor"**

WTF ???

How do you know what god wants to preserve?? Because you read it somewhere??.. Again supported by faith



Why don't you anwer my questions for a blessing.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by autowrench

 

That, friend, is the self same argument I get from Christians all the time.

So what at you trying to argue, that:

A: Shifting the burden of proof is not a fallacy of logic, therefore irrelevant? or
B: Christians are exempt from the fallacy and are required to provide the burden of proof for another person's arguments?

Listen egghead.

ALL faiths , including faith in science/aliens ,, has to provide real ,un-fabricated, proof. Which none ever do.

You(christians) just like"alien ufo idiots" do not nor will ever have proof of whom wrote any freakin scripture or when the bible was assembled. Your faith in scripture is just as pathetic when one posts a moronic ufo video or an eyewitness account or some document from the military. Its ALL BS!!!!!!!!!!!!

You think you have found it . You think you have the answers . You haven't . No one has. Not even I .


You can't prove anything. So why even bother? Because deep inside you are scared. That's why.

Ouch

reply to post by dilly1


Red Herring.

What in the world does that rant have to do with your attempt to shift the burden of proof to me to provide support for your counter-claims to the translators of the KJB? I'll address the same question to you since the other member has abandoned the thread:

A. Are you trying to argue that shifting the burden of proof isn't a fallacy of logic?
B: Are you trying to argue that Christians are exempt from the fallacy and must provide supporting evidence for another person's claims?

I'm not going to meet you on your fallacy, it's your claim, so it's your responsibility to back your claim up.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I'm not going to meet you on your fallacy, it's your claim, so it's your responsibility to back your claim up.

Proverbs 26:4-5
4 ANSWER NOT a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

He is an angry little kid isn't he

Smells like fear to me

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by dilly1

 

Red Herring.

What in the world does that rant have to do with your attempt to shift the burden of proof to me to provide support for your counter-claims to the translators of the KJB? I'll address the same question to you since the other member has abandoned the thread:

A. Are you trying to argue that shifting the burden of proof isn't a fallacy of logic?
B: Are you trying to argue that Christians are exempt from the fallacy and must provide supporting evidence for another person's claims?

I'm not going to meet you on your fallacy, it's your claim, so it's your responsibility to back your claim up.

I am not drawing attention away from the issue.

Your boyfriend KJV is not answering us doubters reasonable questions. He's is so aloof as if he is participating in a christian "only" forum....lol

At least you have "cojones".


First of all (A) is solely based on your misconception of reality. You have to prove it not I.

I all ready told you : you cannot prove anything biblical,, as a fact; in any aspect.

I don't have to prove anything because I am not talking about glorifying some deity or representing a dogma of any sort.

And second ,(B) , anyone who tries to discuss using faith as proof is doing an injustice to us all for the sake of a debate. WE are here to debate right?? I know I am. Which equally goes for science or alchemy or those ridiculous UFO's... There must be undeniable proof... Which christians do not and will never have.

My claim is a logical observation. Which is something you continuously abandon.

But I truly enjoy slugging it out with you. Can't say so much for your BF.

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I'm not going to meet you on your fallacy, it's your claim, so it's your responsibility to back your claim up.

Proverbs 26:4-5
4 ANSWER NOT a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

He is an angry little kid isn't he

Smells like fear to me

edit on 11-1-2012 by KJV1611 because: more sarcasm

Why do you assume I am scared? Because I raise my voice so frequently?

I have asked YOU over 20 questions ,and not once you have attempted to respond. And you call me scared.

How ignorant

Can we Please stop the Personal Sniping and Off Topic remarks.

TIA

dilly1 sez:

"...anyone who tries to discuss using faith as proof is doing an injustice to us all for the sake of a debate. WE are here to debate right?? I know I am. Which equally goes for science or alchemy or those ridiculous UFO's... There must be undeniable proof... Which christians do not and will never have."

Laz replies:

Pardon me...but there is undeniable proof, which this Christian does have. I mentioned in my post above the mathematical codes discovered by Ivan Panin. The Hebrew alphabet has three levels of meaning, the phonetic level, the pictographic level, and the numerical level, in which each Hebrew letter is used as a number, since Hebrew, like Greek or Latin, had no separate set of numerals. Greek has two, maybe three - I'm not sure if Greek has the pictographic level. With me so far? If we look at the Biblical text as a string of numbers, then extremely complex patterns and sets of numbers emerge, most of them factorable by seven. In fairly short texts, at least three dozen levels of coding can be demonstrated. Anyone who has written verse with grammatical meaning, a rhyme scheme, and a regular "beat" can well understand how difficult this really is. A classic Latin poet of antiquity said a good day was two lines, and that took in only THREE levels of coding. What I am describing is far beyond human ability. The coding is coherent, consistent, and runs all the way from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21.

This proves certain things with mathematical certainty:

The Bible is a single, unified document - there is very, very little wriggle room for human intervention.

Each book was written virtually at the same time - if the Author lives outside space/time, we would expect this.

The Author is of more than human intelligence - there is just no getting around this, if you're honest.

The original wording can be restored with the use of the codes, so God's Words are NOT lost.

Given all that, what God tells us in the Bible is true to an absolute degree, based on the solid rock of non- falsifiable mathematical analysis.

The denials of skeptics and scoffers will not hold up. They are wood, hay, and stubble!

Originally posted by gimpy327
Old testament God is a God of war, an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. New testament God says turn the other cheek.

Actually, that Eye for an eye thing was the "Code of Hammurabi", an enemy of Israel and not a prophet or king of Israel. He was a pagan and at odds with the Jews.

Just sayin'

And as to the KJV. What a hack job was this! Put together for King James' birthday by a bunch of zealots who wanted to support this Protestant king's politics. Curiously, it came as a change to the long held Vulgate and this change came in the latter days, just like Paul warned Timothy it would happen and he said to avoid it.

Oh, and BTW: Use of dead languages, like Latin for the Vulgate was considered preferable, because it was a DEAD language. The meanings don't change with time. In English, there is huge room for error because the words of the language are in constant flux. Consider the word "gay" for instance, totally different meaning and intent for that word since just a few years hence.

By their fruits: since it was published, there have been well over 30,000 different sects that have formed and all say that they have the right interpretation of the Bible and all say that they are "Holy Spirit Inspired". The Holy Spirit is unity, not discord and dissent as has actually been the result of this Tome.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
dilly1 sez:

"...anyone who tries to discuss using faith as proof is doing an injustice to us all for the sake of a debate. WE are here to debate right?? I know I am. Which equally goes for science or alchemy or those ridiculous UFO's... There must be undeniable proof... Which christians do not and will never have."

Laz replies:

Pardon me...but there is undeniable proof, which this Christian does have. I mentioned in my post above the mathematical codes discovered by Ivan Panin. The Hebrew alphabet has three levels of meaning, the phonetic level, the pictographic level, and the numerical level, in which each Hebrew letter is used as a number, since Hebrew, like Greek or Latin, had no separate set of numerals. Greek has two, maybe three - I'm not sure if Greek has the pictographic level. With me so far? If we look at the Biblical text as a string of numbers, then extremely complex patterns and sets of numbers emerge, most of them factorable by seven. In fairly short texts, at least three dozen levels of coding can be demonstrated. Anyone who has written verse with grammatical meaning, a rhyme scheme, and a regular "beat" can well understand how difficult this really is. A classic Latin poet of antiquity said a good day was two lines, and that took in only THREE levels of coding. What I am describing is far beyond human ability. The coding is coherent, consistent, and runs all the way from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21.

This proves certain things with mathematical certainty:

The Bible is a single, unified document - there is very, very little wriggle room for human intervention.

Each book was written virtually at the same time - if the Author lives outside space/time, we would expect this.

The Author is of more than human intelligence - there is just no getting around this, if you're honest.

The original wording can be restored with the use of the codes, so God's Words are NOT lost.

Given all that, what God tells us in the Bible is true to an absolute degree, based on the solid rock of non- falsifiable mathematical analysis.

The denials of skeptics and scoffers will not hold up. They are wood, hay, and stubble!

AND because of THAT, those three levels(which means nothing to someone who could careless) is the reason,the validity, that God had something to do with the bible's inception;;;; Not man???????????

Ivan is a mathematician and he discovered something created by "individual(s)" to be more transcending,, more awesome than Pavin's own intellect. Ivan's epiphany , his own "Shock" moment, basically made him stupid. He was so egotistical(and rightfully so,he was a genius) that he would rather say God was the holy influence than glorifying another human with equal smarts as himself created the coded "three levels" within your unified document.


Sir Francis Bacon ,probably the smartest human to date ,supervised and influenced the KJB. It wasn't God. You can't handle the obvious truth,, so like Pavin you turn to faith to mask the extreme vertigo when people like yourself collide with realism.


-the Bible is not a single unified document. There is nothing unified about it.... You want it to be unified, or you need it to be unified.

- you have no clue when anything was written in antiquity. The bible could have been created in the early 17th century and none of us would have never known. That's why faith is so dam important to christians.

-I am beyond honest and logical. You on the other hand believe blindly what you read . Your perspective is based on hope. The author(s) of the bible are human using human intellect. Nothing more. Codes do not make it God like. Why you would think that is a bit delusional.

Again you don't know if God or Gods or Goddesses deal and interact with humans using codes!!!! Lol

The only "absolute degree" is your faith is based on God concocted a coded message for all of us who have seen the true light..... What a crock of poopoo...lol


You see I can touch and feel wood,hay and stubble. I believe in those three things more than the jargon stipulated in your unified document.

PS- and by the way chicks love stubble.

Originally posted by dilly1

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
dilly1 sez:

"...anyone who tries to discuss using faith as proof is doing an injustice to us all for the sake of a debate. WE are here to debate right?? I know I am. Which equally goes for science or alchemy or those ridiculous UFO's... There must be undeniable proof... Which christians do not and will never have."

Laz replies:

Pardon me...but there is undeniable proof, which this Christian does have. I mentioned in my post above the mathematical codes discovered by Ivan Panin. The Hebrew alphabet has three levels of meaning, the phonetic level, the pictographic level, and the numerical level, in which each Hebrew letter is used as a number, since Hebrew, like Greek or Latin, had no separate set of numerals. Greek has two, maybe three - I'm not sure if Greek has the pictographic level. With me so far? If we look at the Biblical text as a string of numbers, then extremely complex patterns and sets of numbers emerge, most of them factorable by seven. In fairly short texts, at least three dozen levels of coding can be demonstrated. Anyone who has written verse with grammatical meaning, a rhyme scheme, and a regular "beat" can well understand how difficult this really is. A classic Latin poet of antiquity said a good day was two lines, and that took in only THREE levels of coding. What I am describing is far beyond human ability. The coding is coherent, consistent, and runs all the way from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21.

This proves certain things with mathematical certainty:

The Bible is a single, unified document - there is very, very little wriggle room for human intervention.

Each book was written virtually at the same time - if the Author lives outside space/time, we would expect this.

The Author is of more than human intelligence - there is just no getting around this, if you're honest.

The original wording can be restored with the use of the codes, so God's Words are NOT lost.

Given all that, what God tells us in the Bible is true to an absolute degree, based on the solid rock of non- falsifiable mathematical analysis.

The denials of skeptics and scoffers will not hold up. They are wood, hay, and stubble!

AND because of THAT, those three levels(which means nothing to someone who could careless) is the reason,the validity, that God had something to do with the bible's inception;;;; Not man???????????

Ivan is a mathematician and he discovered something created by "individual(s)" to be more transcending,, more awesome than Pavin's own intellect. Ivan's epiphany , his own "Shock" moment, basically made him stupid. He was so egotistical(and rightfully so,he was a genius) that he would rather say God was the holy influence than glorifying another human with equal smarts as himself created the coded "three levels" within your unified document.


Sir Francis Bacon ,probably the smartest human to date ,supervised and influenced the KJB. It wasn't God. You can't handle the obvious truth,, so like Pavin you turn to faith to mask the extreme vertigo when people like yourself collide with realism.


-the Bible is not a single unified document. There is nothing unified about it.... You want it to be unified, or you need it to be unified.

- you have no clue when anything was written in antiquity. The bible could have been created in the early 17th century and none of us would have never known. That's why faith is so dam important to christians.

-I am beyond honest and logical. You on the other hand believe blindly what you read . Your perspective is based on hope. The author(s) of the bible are human using human intellect. Nothing more. Codes do not make it God like. Why you would think that is a bit delusional.

Again you don't know if God or Gods or Goddesses deal and interact with humans using codes!!!! Lol

The only "absolute degree" is your faith is based on God concocted a coded message for all of us who have seen the true light..... What a crock of poopoo...lol


You see I can touch and feel wood,hay and stubble. I believe in those three things more than the jargon stipulated in your unified document.

PS- and by the way chicks love stubble.

You're "logic" that you use to come to the conclusions that Christianity is a crock of poopoo and that 9/11 was some kind of conspiracy, is not actually logic. Just personal, paranoid beliefs.