Do gun owners need to get permission to defend ourselves?

I came on to write this one up if it was not already posted, just saw this and thought that it spoke to the highest order of not only Motherhood but also the importance of home protection.

Now off to read this thread.

reply to post by RedParrotHead

McKinley said that she was at home alone with her newborn that night because her husband just died of cancer on Christmas Day.

Wow... I really hope a LOT of people get together and help this woman out. Unreal.

And no, we don't need permission but if you have a chance to ASK on TAPE? DO IT! Might as well cover all your bases!

GOOD ON HER!!!

peace

reply to post by silo13


What if the 911 dispatcher had advised her NOT to shoot...but instead to take her baby and hide until the police arrived (no doubt too late)?? In this case: the ends (safety for herself and her child) justified the means (deadly force).

Just an addendum to this story. Here's a snippet:

No charges for teen widow who killed intruder
Authorities don't plan to file charges against an 18-year-old Oklahoma widow who fatally shot a New Year's Eve intruder at her house while she had a 911 dispatcher on the phone.

However, the intruder's alleged accomplice has been charged with murder in connection with the death.

The whole report is here on msnbc news.

Summary: Authorities have investigated and decided that Mrs McKinley will not be charged with anything. (Good!) But more than that, the other guy who was also trying to break in and ran away after his accomplice was shot, has been charged with 1st degree murder -- on the basis that if a death occurs during the commital of a first-degree felony, then the perps are liable to be charged.

So, the low-life that Mrs McKinley didn't shoot is going to be held liable in a court of law for the death of his accomplice.

Now, that's what I call justice!

And to the original query: I agree that she did not need permission to defend herself, but that (as others have stated), it was good thinking on her part to make sure the 911 operator knew exactly what the situation was. In my opinion, the perpetrator who died only got what he deserved, and as for his accomplice, I hope that (if found guilty) he spends a long time behind bars.

Also, I wish that Mrs McKinley and her baby a safe and peaceful future, with plenty of community support and love around them. She's been through enough already and well deserves some good to come her way.

And it's true: when a mother needs to protect her children from serious harm, she is the most dangerous and determined human there is -- and she deserves to be supported by the law in whatever she does to give her children that protection!

Mike

Great to hear.
The calling of 911 was a good move on her part, it created audio evidence for when the scumbags family takes her to court in an attempt to sue her for damages.

Hey, I have always stated Doom on those that enter someone's house.

reply to post by silo13

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by RedParrotHead

 

McKinley said that she was at home alone with her newborn that night because her husband just died of cancer on Christmas Day.

Wow... I really hope a LOT of people get together and help this woman out. Unreal.

And no, we don't need permission but if you have a chance to ASK on TAPE? DO IT! Might as well cover all your bases!

GOOD ON HER!!!

Something tells me that this woman can take care of herself. Wish some people I know twice her age had half as much smarts, resolve and moxy as Mrs. Mikinley.

reply to post by _R4t_

I spontaneously answered "Ohhhh its not for sport I'm going seal hunting up north" GAWD you should of seen her little attitude change... She almost started crying on the spot...

Off-topic, but still hilarious. I am going to visit San Francisco for the first time next month, and my friend there wants to be a good host. He has promised to take me to all the touristy spots. His favorite restaurant over-looking the bay, the home of the giant burritos out in his old neighborhood, alcatraz, clubbing seals, etc. We were both having the conversation, and the same thoughts at the same time, so it was all stated so matter-of-factly, and we didn't even notice the gasps and stares from the people in the next booth.

Of course, I'm not going to really club any seals.

I would say Yes and No .. depending on the situation.

Her situation warranted this action ( shoot the firearm ).

Lets say your a 300lb body builder and some strung out 17 year old girl comes into your house loaded with a pocket knife. Do you guys still think it would be ok to blow a few holes in her body ?

Ok..lets look at a few more situations .. ( feel free to comment on each or all of them ).

I will preface this with Call 911 as soon/if you can without giving away your position ( call and keep the phone on line or just call and whisper "help" ).

Q. Your a single mother with an infant ( or toddler ) and brandish a shotgun when someone Breaks in your house.
A. Hide with your kids and shoot to kill at the FIRST chance you get. Wait for a while to make sure there are no more intruders. ( if you have a cell phone call 911 at the first opportunity. You dont have to say anything other then a quite "help" .. dont hang up ).

Q. Your a single female with a handgun ( Im sure its not a .44 magnum ) and someone breaks into your home.
A. Fire All rounds ! Just keep shooting until your empty. Some may say that you keep a few rounds to shoot "warning shots" into the wall or the roof after the intruder was killed/shot .. bad Idea to do this. You dont need to lie with bullets. Forensics will pull Every bullet and find that you tried to manipulate the situation. Not very good for your defense if you need it.

Q. I have a wife and 2 small children .. someone just broke into my home.
A. As a husband with 2 small children I can say only one thing. Someone will be killed...Period !

Q. I'm a single male and someone just broke into my home.
A. You have every right to use force. However .. you can protect yourself without unloading a semiauto at the perp as opposed to females.

Q. Someone broke in to my home .. when he saw I was standing there with a gun he ran .. but I shot him.
A. Never Ever Shoot someone in the Back !!. There was another poster that suggested a door closed when he got his shot gun and killed the guy through the door ( could not happen through a door ). Main point is You can Never shoot someone in the back.

As far as another poster suggesting that some police officer told her to "drag the body inside the house " when killed Outside ..Um.. that's just almost the Stupidest thing I have ever heard of !! Ever !!

The smartest suggestions I have read on this thread is ..

1. Guns are made to KILL .. not wound .. or mame ..KILL. If your not willing to Kill then dont have a gun.

2.When you point a Gun at someone .. KILL them.

3. Take a firearm safety course.

4. Know your weapon and how to use it.

5. Go over it Again and Again in your Mind.

For those that Do NOT want to kill someone there are effective ways to Defend against Intruders.

Ammonia in an empty dish soap bottle works wonders when you have the chance. Squirt that on an intruder and they will not be able to do much of anything.

JG.

Here in UK as you know, guns are relatively rare (let's save the gun debate for another thread). We are allowed to use reasonable force though it's a bit of a grey area. But for me as a single female I have to say I would count it reasonable to strike first and with something guaranteed to cause serious harm. I can't put myself at a disadvantage by waiting politely to see if he has a violent intent. The intruder who is in MY home uninvited is responsible for whatever ill befalls him - not me.

reply to post by AwakeinNM


It wasn't something I was told by a friend, I think i saw it on a 'worlds deadliest 911 calls' or some crap like that... lol. I personally think it's ridiculous. haha

Distantly related ATS thread. Why you will give up you guns...

Why you will give up your guns link

Does it matter if it is the cops or the bad guys breaking in to your house?

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reply to post by jaduguru

A. Never Ever Shoot someone in the Back !!. There was another poster that suggested a door closed when he got his shot gun and killed the guy through the door ( could not happen through a door ). Main point is You can Never shoot someone in the back.

The other poster was me, and it did happen, in the same state as the woman in the OP, and he spent 2 months in jail while the police sorted out the details. He didn't answer the door with the gun in hand (he should have), but the gun was behind the door. After the attacker hit him in the head with a hammer (don't know how many times), he was able to grab the shotgun and shoot as he lost consciousness. The police found him unconscious, the attacker in the front yard shot in the back, and the door damaged by the gunshot. It looked like he shot a fleeing attacker in the back through a door, but that wasn't the whole story.

Also, with all of your other scenarios, I partially agree, but they are over-simplified.

So, you are a 250lb bodybuilder, that knows karate, and you are asleep in your own home. A 17 year old tweaker finds a door unlocked, and sneaks in. Sure, you don't have to shoot her to defend yourself, but what if she just keeps fighting you, and fighting you, and fighting you, and you have to inflict a lot of damage on her before help arrives, and then as soon as the police get there, she claims you dragged her into the house against her will!! No witnesses, a battered young woman, and you left stuttering to defend yourself! Much simpler to shoot her. It isn't OK, it isn't fair to anybody, but it is the way of the world today.

OR, what if you are able to control her and you're waiting on the police to arrive, and you don't realize she has wiggled to find a pointy nail file in her pocket, and as you let your guard down for a split second, she shrieks and stabs you in the jugular vein and then runs out the back door. Now you are lying, dying, over nothing, and they don't even have a decent suspect to chase.

OR, what if you subdue her successfully, she goes to jail for 30 days, then gets out, then gets a couple of her tweaker boyfriends, and breaks into someone else's home, and they are not a bodybuilder, and they don't have a gun, and they end up dead. That blood is partially on your hands no? You could have ended the threat early on, but you chose not to.

If someone breaks into your home, they mean to do someone harm, and they are a threat to you and society, and you should shoot them.

Bump this thread for every uninformed poster who questions why Americans own guns and thinks there is no need for them. It's called self defense! 911 equal dial a prayer. Armed mother equals god/source helps those who help themselves!

She was 18 years old and a new mother. Good for her. I'd want her as my neighbor anytime. She didnt need permission...but out fo terror and fear...she wanted some reassurance. And at 18 years of age...I wouldnt blame her.

Good for her! Too bad for him. He got what he deserved. And he wont do that again.

reply to post by ditchweed


Thanks very much, the last obnoxious, filled with malice prick around here, left when I divorced him many years ago.lol
Farmer 2 miles down has shot 7 cougar this year. Don't know what is going on with the wildlife this year, even had my dog attacked by a raccoon, dog won eventually but wow what deep scratches!

In the USA,
You don't need permission to defend yourself,
but you should know your rights and know what is considered defense as defined by laws in your state.
That would be your responsibility to learn,
especially if you are a gun owner.