Jesus Christ is the son of the one and only God, our creator.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by yourboycal2

 

Oh i've tried that plenty of times . . .

I think it is more of a lifetime experience and I don't put much into the idea of there being some sort of immediate experience. I think it is a gradual sort of thing where your thoughts slowly change from what they were about previously and are directed into a more useful sort, at least that is the way I have thought about it. There are more dramatic type things and in my own life these were caused by my own foolishness or whatever but God had to step in many times to save my life. I think that God does good things for us for the sake of Jesus in that he was someone God found worthwhile to save from death and by our relationship with Jesus, Gods sees us in the same sort of light.
Like I said, personally I have experienced miracles and healing of a profound nature. I can not touch you and bring you back to life if you were dead, as far as I know but I could tell you Jesus did that for me and maybe you may believe and when the time is there for you, then it will happen and that is what is important.

edit on 2-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Well i've heard many say its a immediate effect , espically with " as i was praying before bed"... and bam. Magico , then others it takes a few days gradual thing.

Surley you would agree those that get ir sooner , vs that get it later is unfair! and raises suspicion in one , while the other has instant gradiciation and subjective confirmation. If not then , thats some favor playing and intervention . Steps in sometimes , and other times delays .


the healing thing , there far to many fakes, out there . Alot of times our minds , want it to be a spirtual intervention , but thats unfair to the other events that don't get it lol. If you can call it on demand at a spirtual healing thing. Then so should the averge joe!


When we talk about these miracle fixes and what not , some big claims lol.

but if they can do it , why can't the averge joe with some really strong belief! if its possible to raise dead , give sight to the blindess, then what v.i.p access do you need to tap into this ? when bible makes hints at moving mountains , drinking poison you'll be fine lol

reply to post by Akragon


Like i said that was a differnt question , then i asked about NT ? Why is this so difficult to comprehend?


you did notice i was posting to other ppl right ? Many convo's went on between there.


thanks for the defintion . Whos going to read that lesson ? and what will they take away from it ?

Is it a positive one ? I don't think so . This is clearly something i would consider a "satanic verse" injected.

Originally posted by yourboycal2
reply to post by Akragon

 

Like i said that was a differnt question , then i asked about NT ? Why is this so difficult to comprehend?


you did notice i was posting to other ppl right ? Many convo's went on between there.


thanks for the defintion . Whos going to read that lesson ? and what will they take away from it ?

Is it a positive one ? I don't think so . This is clearly something i would consider a "satanic verse" injected.

edit on 2-1-2012 by yourboycal2 because: (no reason given)

Why would i read what you post to other people if i was talking to you in this thread? You didn't ask me anything about the NT.... why is that so hard to comprehend?

It does have a positive message... which i already gave several interpretations for...

Again.... you really don't read anything i write do you?

reply to post by Akragon


I try too . we might have had a miscommunication and i apologize.

reply to post by yourboycal2


Its quite alright.... happens all the time in religous threads

reply to post by Akragon


as i was saying .

this is just a situation ,

If we were infront of a judge , and we had to present evidence as to the crediblity of jesus as a person and his actions , using the bible.

Now you tell me you believe these words as being legit ? with no problems?


biblebabble.curbjaw.com...



Now here are few examples of discrepancies if you will.

Why would i take jesus seirously when the "witness" accounts are not lining up ?


How can you after seeing such problems of consistancy take anything in the books authentic?

reply to post by yourboycal2


They are the POV of different authors, remember they were also human... we make mistakes

I do not deny the errors within the bible.... its literally stocked full of errors...

But if you read his lessons they all line up completely...

He preaches love for God, and love for life...

Even the Genesis account is flawed... the first book of the bible.

what does that tell you?

Genesis: A Comparative Analysis

reply to post by yourboycal2


I thought i'd be a little more specific to your reply...

If we were infront of a judge , and we had to present evidence as to the crediblity of jesus as a person and his actions , using the bible.

You would have to find somewhere within those books that he actually did something wrong...

You might find the church has taken anything that might make Jesus "less then perfect" out of the bible...

That is why they maintain that he led a sinless life...

I do not completely agree with that premise...

IF you read the infancy gospels you'd find that he did not lead a sinless life... though... they are not part of the churches "cannon" because of dating issues, and authorship...

I believe he led a normal mans life.... meaning he had to make mistakes before he perfected himself.

reply to post by Akragon




"They are the POV of different authors, remember they were also human... we make mistakes"

Yes , POV is right . Humans do makes mistakes. But not god. This collection of books is dedicated to him , so the masses have a passage of how to deal with god, for it to be flawed like that , show me no OVERSIGHT by "god"

If he were to exist, and knows this book is his rep. No way he would allow it , to go tainted.

If you were c.e.o of a company would you let you business biography go out without reviewing it and stamping it for approve.

remember this book is going out to the masses , why add more confusion with contradictary points.

If our only passage to understand god is scripture, to me it better be error free as possible.


Now , this mixed in with the rest of the parts you believe to be true , really voids those things.

I don't understand how you can accept some and disgard the rest as hearsay.

To many factors there for me to take anything in bible as authentic.


Yes you said you don't deny the erros, but you still accept some of it. What can you do with the verses you believe in verse the ones you don't , have belief in one and not the other. But its from a tainted source , i can't accept that.



"But if you read his lessons they all line up completely..."

Yes on a philosophical stand point sure , i'll give you that . Its great , but can you cannot a divine source behind it ?

Can you do the things jesus claimed you can with prayers? even with the verses you believe in ?

:He preaches love for God, and love for life...:

yea but what if there is no god ? or he is not the god of the bible, and its just great philisohpical quotes to live by ? can't we live with it as that?

Originally posted by TheTruthCqer
Evil has come my way. Goodnight folks.

Hi, um...
what happened?
You made a statement and then asked if there were questions. There were questions. And then you claim the above?

Why, good sir, did you start the thread if you can't hang in there and answer the questions that you, yourself solicited? Why claim that "evil has come [your] way" when the questions you asked for become other than what you expected or wanted?

I am really tired of this kind of irrationality.


Religious people indulge themselves in being annoying ..and then play victim when people are tired of hearing their crap..

reply to post by yourboycal2

. . . thats some favor playing and intervention . . .

Every person is different and God deals with people on an individual bases.
I'm alive thanks to God, I have no doubt about that and what this does for me is to have a confidence in this fact to where I can discuss such things. These things may happen quite differently with someone in a different situation but in mine I know that this knowledge of God and how God works for me, is through Jesus.

reply to post by yourboycal2

Yes , POV is right . Humans do makes mistakes. But not god. This collection of books is dedicated to him , so the masses have a passage of how to deal with god, for it to be flawed like that , show me no OVERSIGHT by "god"

If he were to exist, and knows this book is his rep. No way he would allow it , to go tainted.

If you were c.e.o of a company would you let you business biography go out without reviewing it and stamping it for approve.

remember this book is going out to the masses , why add more confusion with contradictary points.

If our only passage to understand god is scripture, to me it better be error free as possible

Actually the bible wasn't distributed to the masses originally... it was actually illegal to possess a bible for a long time, unless of course you were a part of the church.

And who told you that the bible is the "only way to understand God"?

Its not "error free" because the bible was not "inspired" by God as many christians belief... this is just false.

Jesus on the other hand, being the son of God... would at least know what his father wanted of us.

Now , this mixed in with the rest of the parts you believe to be true , really voids those things.

I don't understand how you can accept some and disgard the rest as hearsay.

To many factors there for me to take anything in bible as authentic.

You don't need to accept anything i say, nor do i ask you to even consider it... that is your choice.

I was shown what was correct in my studies... Thats all i will say on that matter

Yes you said you don't deny the erros, but you still accept some of it. What can you do with the verses you believe in verse the ones you don't , have belief in one and not the other. But its from a tainted source , i can't accept that.

I can argue with Christians, and other people that don't understand the bible as much as they believe they do...

Like i said, you don't have to accept anything... scripture just happens to be my hobby. And i enjoy the debate... And there are only a few people on ATS i can't argue with... they are the ones that understand Jesus...

Yes on a philosophical stand point sure , i'll give you that . Its great , but can you cannot a divine source behind it ?

Can you do the things jesus claimed you can with prayers? even with the verses you believe in ?

Yes there is a divine source behind it... it is love.

Love is divine...

And yes, i can do some of the things Jesus told us we could do... For instance i can "move mountains" with my words... Not in the literal sense of course, but if you consider a man with no belief in God... a mountain. I can and have crushed many mountians with what i say... and not just about the bible.

I don't preach the bible i only quote it.... and only his words.

I do preach love.... and love can move mountains my friend!

yea but what if there is no god ? or he is not the god of the bible, and its just great philisohpical quotes to live by ? can't we live with it as that?

Of course you can live with it... And the true God is NOT the God of the bible, though it is the father of Jesus...

God is not in a book, nor is he in a church... God is within you, and me... and all life.

And one day you will also realize God is very real.... though it may take til the time of your death to realize it... but at that time you WILL see...

Well now. Seven full pages.
My question is did you receive all the persecution you were hoping for?

reply to post by Akragon

In your own words ,you admit the bible is moot, yet you continue to argue the nature of god??? Why do people argue this nature ??? Is your perception more true than anyone Else's?



It drives me absolutely insane that people are willing to infringe on human rights, kill and maim eachother with this argument.

Originally posted by TheTruthCqer
reply to post by yourboycal2

 

If Jesus christ is the son of God ,

Why do so many christians call out to jesus instead of to god ?

Because no one comes through the father unless they come through the son first. This is the way god wants it to be.

Wouldn't you worship god over his son ? I worship both but I speak to Jesus. God is to holy for me to attempt to speak to him directly, because I am buried in sin sometimes.

Jesus gets far more attention then god does. Why? Because he was a human, therefore known. God is unknown yet spoke through him.

Why do some even confuse jesus as god ? jesus is God.

luke 19:27 = not your friend. nor gods son.

Hebrews 1 1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: 4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Jesus is the express image of God, and even God Himself called Jesus, God, because they are the same, they are three persons in One, they are distinct, separate individuals but in perfect union with each other. No angel received this honor because they are not part of God.

Originally posted by paleorchid13
reply to post by Akragon

 

In your own words ,you admit the bible is moot, yet you continue to argue the nature of god??? Why do people argue this nature ??? Is your perception more true than anyone Else's?

It drives me absolutely insane that people are willing to infringe on human rights, kill and maim eachother with this argument.

Perhaps... why else would i argue?

I know Gods son... and thus i also know his father.

reply to post by Akragon


"Actually the bible wasn't distributed to the masses originally... it was actually illegal to possess a bible for a long time, unless of course you were a part of the church"


Yes but being god im sure he knows where bible will end up atleast no ? Or he doesnt even that that control. ? Think about it , if you were god , you KNOW your inspired books are going to be collected and its purpose is for the masses.Now it is distrbuted on the masses .




"And who told you that the bible is the "only way to understand God"?"


"And who told you that the bible is the "only way to understand God"?"

Well we are talking about the god of the bible, if all the bible copies were destroyed and the information was lost forever. There wouldn't even be a christianity today ?

So if were dealing with god of the bible , and the information was destroyed the day it was created. We would what? find another religion with scripture lol.


"Its not "error free" because the bible was not "inspired" by God as many christians belief... this is just false."


Thats cool but got allows it to be tainted? If some of the verses you believe to be true no?



"Jesus on the other hand, being the son of God... would at least know what his father wanted of us. "


Yes but we get the jesus into from the , few books. if these books are tainted which we know,

i have no choice but to dismiss the whole thing as tainted, comprimised and security breach.


Secondly jesus was made from a mother , and pops was the divine.

adam , was pure divine creation. Why is he not more the son of god then jesus? When jesus got half a miracle less.


"You don't need to accept anything i say, nor do i ask you to even consider it... that is your choice"


Im trying to understand how you havn't dismissed the bible as hearsay , I do not believe god , would allow such a book with his inspiration in only parts of it surrounded by some broken logic.

This is something if god exists , then satan would do ? .

Help me understand why you would accept something , where in any other case you would throw out .


Would you take science lessons from a book about unicorns ? If i sold it to you as a science book?

Would you laugh at me and say gtfo? or buy the book , and choose which part is science? why even waste your time?



" was shown what was correct in my studies... Thats all i will say on that matter "

Yea but surley you look back and see all that surrounds it , and go something is just not right?


Is there anything you can perform in the bible that i can't without?


"Like i said, you don't have to accept anything... scripture just happens to be my hobby. And i enjoy the debate... And there are only a few people on ATS i can't argue with... they are the ones that understand Jesus... "


But our whole problem arises from where we get the information about jesus?

If i had a time machine and took you back in time , and we saw who jesus really was , would you come back and tell everyone else the hearsay in the bible?

You would believe it , but hardcore christians won't believe you untill they take that same journey back in time.


You will be frustrated as to how they can even consider the bible with any merit.


"Yes there is a divine source behind it... it is love"

love? doesn't cut it anymore.



"... Not in the literal sense of course, but if you consider a man with no belief in God... a mountain. I can and have crushed many mountians with what i say... and not just about the bible"


Jesus fed how many which a request, healed the blind , and some other crazy things you don't just don't do.


he says just believe with a mustard seed of what?

why does his prayers work literal but yours metaphorically ?

How do you see this as justice and fairnesss?

If the prayers arent literal why pray at all asking for things?


cuz. 50/50 chance it might come true?

come on now...


you can flip a coin for the same


"I do preach love.... and love can move mountains my friend!"

Yes thats cool , but you do peach about jesus .

Now if you were god , would you not be pissed people talking jesus this jesus that? WHen really god is the head hancho?


When your at work do you kiss your boss read end , or your fellow employees more?

lol

You don't disrespect the boss if he is up there , with his creatoin.



"Of course you can live with it... And the true God is NOT the God of the bible, though it is the father of Jesus...
"


Lets just seperate god , jesus and bible ? Put them all in seperate places.


God = THe source of the universe.

Jesus = Great messenger / prophet,/ role model / historical folk tale.

Bible = Historical broken telephone.



"God is not in a book, nor is he in a church... God is within you, and me

Originally posted by yourboycal2

Originally posted by jmdewey60


but if they can do it , why can't the averge joe with some really strong belief! if its possible to raise dead , give sight to the blindess, then what v.i.p access do you need to tap into this ? when bible makes hints at moving mountains , drinking poison you'll be fine lol

We do move mountains. Even celebrities like Montel Williams believe that and tell you so. But as far as the drinking poison goes, my great-grandmother in Kentucky was one of those crazy people who handled snakes and drank strychnine. She never died from either.

But that is not my expression of faith, I don't have to prove my faith in that way but I still have faith. And who are we to say that another person's expression of faith is wrong, if their motives are in the right manner? I have seen in my lifetime people healed, my brother was healed of spinal meningitis as a young boy. He was to have an operation in which the doctors said he would be a vegetable from. My parents realized how serious it was and had the pastor come and pray for him, my brother not only was healed that night and did not have to go through surgery, he grew up to just recently retire from the Navy as a Lieutenant. I know what prayer is.

I have also seen in my lifetime prayers that were not answered, and it was not because God was not listening and not playing fair, it had to be accepted that it was the way it was. That does not mean we should stop praying. We always pray with the expectation the answer will come, but we do not see always the way it is, is the way it is.

If I had my choice, I would be healed from Multiple Sclerosis and be able to walk my dog without the need of a wheelchair, but I have to keep believing that I will be healed. Just because it has not happened yet, does not mean it will not. So ease up on God, because you don't have the wisdom God has. Not one of us does.

reply to post by Akragon

It's an argument that will NEVER be settled.. Quite a horrible argument, as it's playing cloud pictures in the sky.
I agree to disagree . However it's hard to go about without some person telling be what an awful horrible person I am , to be condemned to an eternal horrible pit if I don't bow down and believe in something I simply don't believe in.
The church uses all kinds of tactics ...fear ...dread....guilt....I think it's nonsense and quite silly.
People have this notion that If I simply see it this way or that ..I'll believe what they believe...they really just don't get it. I don't believe that and I never will....we don't see eye to eye but I'm tired of living in a reality where such nonsense is always shoved down my throat. I go grocery shopping ..or to the drug store .. and these crazy bible stories ...from a statistical point of view ...most of the world is religious , and it hasn't helped anyone. We murder and we kill and are just as selfish ..the only difference is , some people use their religion to justify the horrible things they do. GOD is not great my friend...IT just is ..it doesn't reward ..it doesn't punish ..IT just is ..and we make our own destiny.