Bob's Home Video

Originally posted by A51Watcher
reply to post by Drunkenparrot

 

I don't believe for a moment you did not see the vast dishonesty and evasion posted by certain members.

But thanks for revealing your agenda and M.O. as well.

For what its worth my agenda is that I have an interest in aerospace and there was a time when I would have really liked to believe that there were a shred of truth to the more incredible interpretations of Roswell or the 1967 Malmstrom AFB Echo flight shutdown, the intersection of the two makes ATS a natural venue for interesting conversation.

My M.O. is to try and treat others with the respect and dignity that I expect from them while remaining faithful to my own voice and opinions.

Since you asked in a round about way, my opinion is dishonesty is a very strong word that you are using very liberally. I think you have been equally duplicate in trying to game the debate to your respective advantages (which is the norm on these message board forums) and it wouldn't hurt for the both of you to take a step back and try to be a bit more civil.

I also think that devolving into a "if your not with me you are against me" frame of reference handicaps a persons opportunities for personal growth.

Lastly I think dismissing a dissenting opinion to your own with the tired insinuation that the person on the other side of the monitor has anymore of an ulterior motive behind their opinion than yourself is intellectually lazy.

If you are confident in your beliefs let the facts speak for themselves. If the facts that support your beliefs don't withstand close scrutiny then perhaps you should reevaluate your beliefs?

Thank you for asking my opinion.

reply to post by Drunkenparrot


Selective amnesia is just another distraction tactic.

Sorry no takers here.

And your claim you have heard 3 different stories on how Bob got the pieces of 115 only shows you visit too many dbunker sites.

Bob told how he got it and his story has never changed.

The other two "you heard" obviously were spread by dubunkers.

They certainly didn't come from Bob.

By cloaking I wasn't really describing a holographic projection, more like a frequency change of the molecular composition of any physical object. Everything works on the principles of electromagnetism-including gravity itself. Is this the basis of the electric universe theory??

Something like teleportation but not complete dematerialisation, transmission and then rematerialisation. That is allegedly how a teleporter works to transmit matter. Also when you walk through a stargate that is what may happen if 'the fiction' is correct.

What makes people think hollywood is complete imagination? Isn't it probable they get inside information to make such movies? They need to have a fundamental grasp of this ancient technology-its not really cutting edge science as some think-only cutting edge for those outside of the know.

Most of this information was passed down through the ages through the secret luciferian cults who worshiped the draconian reptillians and greys. We are talking about million years old technology in our galaxy alone, nevermind the universe or multiverse.

What makes people think hollywood is complete imagination?

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Hollywood just has to make it look good. They don't have to make anything work. That requires engineers.

The doors in all those Star Trek TV shows were human powered (stage hands). The swoosh sound was added later. The boulder throw by the Gorn was Styrofoam. Everything in Hollywood is fake. The voices of the dead laugh at modern sitcoms.

You need to learn to separate fiction from reality.

reply to post by gariac


Obviously the plot of each movie/series is different and is fiction, but most of the time(if not always) fiction has A BASIS in reality. Your patronising approach to everything that goes against the accepted status quo is transparent to everyone with at least half a brain.

fiction has A BASIS in reality

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Need I rattle off dumb ass fantasy movie titles to prove your statement is ridiculous?

OK, OK, perhaps Austin powers has a penis pump.

Originally posted by gariac

fiction has A BASIS in reality

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

Need I rattle off dumb ass fantasy movie titles to prove your statement is ridiculous?

OK, OK, perhaps Austin powers has a penis pump.

Wow....that must be like the most *off-topic post* I have ever seen!

If I want sexual arousal I can visit other sites. Keep it clean for the children on this site.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


It is totally on topic. Austin Powers is pure fiction, yet you believe fiction is reality. I find Hollywood totally irrelevant to reality, but you brought it up.

Oh, but the pumps apparently are real!

I realize that this is an old post but the original topic about element 115 is very related to the work I do on a daily basis. I am a nuclear physicist currently employed by a private institution. First of all, I would like to state that I am an open minded scientist and my personal opinion is that extraterrestrial life exists. Without going into the technical details, taking into account the number of stars alone and the number of planets, we can't possibly be the only ones. In fact, most astrobiologists and planetary scientists agree that life exists elsewhere. Every day more and more data is being gathered that supports that view. Now, that being stated, let's get to the topic and the reason I decided write this.

It is true that there are islands of stability thought to exist for element 115. As an open minded scientist, I have to agree that it is theoretically possible and well within the laws of Physics for a stable isotope to exist. Now, we are talking about stuff that is well, well beyond our current technological capabilities. Heck, it would even be difficult for an ET race more advanced than us to perform such as feat. The best explanation I can think of, and this is quite, quite a stretch, is that element 115 somehow is naturally occurring somewhere out there in the vastness of the universe. And if that is the case, it would have taken one hell of a bang - even beyond a supernova explosion - to produce such an element. Again, quite a stretch but given our current understanding of the physics involved to do something like that, it is the best explanation I can come up with. Now, that's the science part.

I admit that I know very little about Bob Lazar and his claims as I have only read this post and watch the video. However, after watching I am inclined to believe that the physics he discusses is nonsense. As I understand physics and make a living using it, he appears to be discussing made-up physics. Again, this is just an opinion. Since we don't understand gravity, let alone be able to control it at will, I can't say with 100% certainty. Just understand that what he is discussing would require us to seriously re-examine our currently accepted theories, as they would be almost completely incorrect. That is quite a deviation from current understanding that has been supported by experiments and observation. It is a lot to ask.

Ideally, we would need to get ourselves a piece of that element 115 so that proper analysis can be done on it. It would take us fairly little effort in our lab to determine whether we are dealing with an exotic material. Without a sample for testing, there is no way to tell. While I agree that Lazar's inability to provide a sample for testing hurts his credibility and that of his story, it does not prove that his story is fabricated. Logical reasons may exist that explain why a sample was not provided for analysis.

Again, my personal opinion on the whole thing is that it is fake but I have no proof that it is. Same as he has no proof that his story is true. What I can say for certain is that I am troubled by Lazar's knowledge of Physics. The way he talks and the terms he uses are not supportive of the claim that he is a trained physicist.

I hope you guys find this post helpful.

reply to post by Madscientist55


Odd that you capitalize physics.

You can't prove a negative, so in theory you can't prove Lazar is full of crap to his eyebrows. However, you can prove a positive, and Lazar has failed to provide proof positive of his silly tale. Delivering element 115 would be proof positive. Lazar failed to provide such proof. Thus it is safe to say his story is completely fabricated, or he enjoys being called a liar.

I agree that is the most probable explanation. That is all fabricated.

However, I must point out as others have done earlier in this post, that Lazar's failure to produce a sample of the exotic material for analysis is not proof that his story is fabricated. In philosophy, you can't say

"Lazar did not deliver the sample for testing and for cross examination to be performed by unbiased third parties, therefore his story is fabricated and he is a fake". I am paraphrasing here.

This claim fails all logic tests as it does not represent valid reasoning.

I agree with you that this statement is the most likely explanation and it has the highest probability of being the real answer. Still, it is only an opinion. Your opinion and mine as well but simply an opinion, not fact.

reply to post by Madscientist55


I disagree. Bob never proved his story. That is a fact.

Depends on what you consider proof. I bet that for many people Bob has provided proof for his claims. Again, just a matter of opinion, not fact. Still, based on my standards and what I consider proof, Bob did not prove his story. It is not a fact, it is an opinion. My opinion is that he did not prove his story. Your opinion is that he did not prove his theory. Additionally, Bob's failure to prove his theory is not proof that his story is false. His lack of proof reinforces some people's opinions that his story is fabricated but the lack of proof is not in itself proof that his claims are fabricated. As I've stated, jumping to the conclusion that simply because no proof exists therefore his story is false is not valid reasoning and fails all logic tests.

We are dealing with opinions here, not facts. My opinion is that Bob did not prove his story. As such, my opinion is that the most likely reason Bob did not prove his story is that his story is probably fabricated. That is my opinion. I cannot prove it with facts any more than Bob can prove his story.

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by Madscientist55

 

Odd that you capitalize physics.

You can't prove a negative, so in theory you can't prove Lazar is full of crap to his eyebrows. However, you can prove a positive, and Lazar has failed to provide proof positive of his silly tale. Delivering element 115 would be proof positive. Lazar failed to provide such proof. Thus it is safe to say his story is completely fabricated, or he enjoys being called a liar.

First of all Bob Lazar did not make any money(that I am aware of) on all his claims.

Second John Lear, as a respectable member of the american and world community, believes him and supports him. Testimony from others also lends credit to Bob Lazar.

So why make up stories for NEGATIVE PUBLICITY? What you are harping and leaning at FAILS THE LOGIC TEST in every way.

You are claiming his badge is fake, his w-2 statement is fake, that john lear is too senile(although he met Bob Lazar at a much earlier age), that he worked in Los Alamos "at some capacity"...a janitor?

And yes hollywood has made MANY MOVIES on the extra-terrestrial them GOING BACK decades........hollywood definitely has great screenwriters, but you still need a general theme to work off of..........

The government has been known to silence people via ridicule, erase/modify your employment and educational background, and sometimes even kill as in the case of philip schneider...which apparently john lear never really liked to begin with.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Bob Lazar's "story" was optioned by Hollywood. When you are optioned, you receive money in exchange for exclusive rights to the story for a specific time period. In Bob's case, the option expired and the story was never made into a movie. [This isn't to say their was no work on the project. The script had Bob Lazar jumping from car to car with the Treasure Island volcano in the background.] But clearly Bob made some money from his BS since nobody options for free.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I was simply trying to establish that Lazar's failure to produce proof that he is in possession of this element 115 now or was in possession at one point is not proof that his story is fabricated. However, my opinion is that his lack of proof hurts his credibility. While I cannot say with certainty that either his entire story or elements of his story are fabricated, the most plausible explanation is that he was never in possession of element 115 or any such thing. Again, this is my personal opinion based on the available evidence. Of course, it is possible that his story is true and he has been telling the truth all along. My point is that with such lack of evidence, all we can do is deal with probabilities - how likely his story is to be true vs. how like his story is to be fabricated. Based on evidence currently available, the most likely answer is that his story is at least partially fabricated, specifically the part that mentions the exotic material.

I have said this earlier and I will say it again. I have seen Lazar's videos and I am troubled by his "physics". Either his physics is nonsense as it appears to virtually all those versed in physics or we must seriously go back and re-examine some of our currently accepted theories that have been shown experimentally to be correct. Still, if Lazar's physics is correct, these experimentally verified theories would have to be re-evaluated.

Originally posted by A51Watcher

But my sources said these tests were ongoing despite the leak by Lazar, and they had illegally increased the range of the security perimeter on test nights to compensate for the leak.

Curious to know what that claim is based on ? Being surrounded bye BLM land I wouldn't be surprised if they could do that at any time they felt the need too. Then again the base never existed in the first place which must mean there was never an actual perimeter right


But seriously didn't they just add another 300,000 acres or so to push the perimeter back ?

Good thread guys, this stuff is always a good read for the open minded

reply to post by Candycab


Lazar and gang didn't use K-mart/Freedom RIdge or White Sides. [They couldn't even see the base.] The land grab didn't start until the real Area 51 explorers, Glenn Campbell and the rest of the Interceptors, started to hang out in the area. That was when the BS stopped and real investigations took place.

The BLM takes a dim view of people being chased off "their" land or "their" land being blocked. Basically don't believe the hype posted from so-callled sources. Like any government entity, the BLM guards their turf. It takes an act of congress (literally) for them to lose their turf.

Originally posted by Madscientist55
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I was simply trying to establish that Lazar's failure to produce proof that he is in possession of this element 115 now or was in possession at one point is not proof that his story is fabricated. However, my opinion is that his lack of proof hurts his credibility.

Was it Bob Lazar or John Lear that said element 115 cannot be made on earth in a stable form?

It was a long time since I researched what either had to say about groom lake and s4 so my details are lacking.

I think it is unreasonable to base our assertions on one or two details while ignoring mountains of other correlating data. In any case I don't really care what people believe about Bob Lazar because the rabbit hole goes much deeper.

Also someone mentioned "where is the road" and why can't we see any ufos in that immediate area.......

a)it was a DIRT ROAD that existed long time ago, thus either the road got covered-up with brush or b)they moved to another secure location AFTER the story was out to maintain the cover-up.

People like Thomas Castello and Phil Schneider, both missing or dead, have stated that area 51 is being used as a ufo depot deep underground and all the real reverse engineering is taking place in the new mexico desert....especially LANL! Also another hotspot for ufo tech is the mojave desert in california!

This is what happens when so called ufologists NARROW their research into 1 person and one area.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

a)it was a DIRT ROAD that existed long time ago, thus either the road got covered-up with brush or

Dirt roads don't get overgrown in Nevada to the point of disappearing. . The desert is very fragile and doesn't heal. Old mining trails, older than the Lazar fairytale, can easily be seen on google earth. If you know the location of desert crashes, you can see the effects the recovery team had on the soil on google earth.

Seriously, it is time to stop making up excuses for Bob Lazar. If the story were true, he would be here defending it.