Open Letter to Anonymous

Originally posted by Glargod
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

...
That's why Linux failed, right? All those People creating for Betterment for free with just name recognition as payment? It turns out that if One can follow One's bliss (with needs and most wants met), One will do what is needed.

As for the (statistically non-existent) People who break laws to break laws...there is no solution. But We can deal with Them as We do now. Lock Them up - but with all the amenities except travel and social interaction. Statistically speaking, ALL crimes are committed with a money/power/energy motive. Remove that and statistically there will be no crime.
...

I agree with the fact that we all need to help each other. I try to use as much Open Source software, not for the fact that I am thrifty, but rather because I believe that groups who concentrate their efforts to make things of value is, IMO, of greater worth than groups who concentrate their effort to benefit the net worth of a few.

This world needs more "not for profit" groups who would focus on R&D, Social Growth, real NEWS and overall betterment and evolution of our global race (without prejudice).

As for the unlawful persons, I would suggest ousting them as a community. As you state, there is no real solution, but there are some beings who are of a true detrimental nature to society. To further reinforce your point on the removal of money/power/energy motives, I would suggest that the number of laws be reduced to a memorable amount. Often people struggle with a Justice of the peace's argument that "not knowing the law is no defense". I would like to argue that we aught to use common sense, but sadly, common sense is no longer that common.

There should be a group of Moral and Ethical Laws, as well as Natural Laws, but only laws that would be truly fair and just. after all "An unjust law is no law at all." Augustine of Hippo

Well... People will be freed up to do things that have social meaning if We spread the word that We CAN have free energy and We CAN be rid of money - to the point that the tech is released. Sure, some Peoples' bliss will be traveling, mountain climbing, surfing, and other activities that do not directly affect society, but to be sure, They will be less stressed than spending a large amount of Their time asking if You want fries with that, and then, the social effects will be seen in the form of more pleasant behavior.

I do not believe that "moral" laws are good. Morals vary around the planet - in some places wearing a bikini in public is VERY immoral; in others its the norm. Ethics are a better measure. And, since most of Our "laws" are motivated by money, in one way or another, removing the need for money through abundant free energy removes the function/need for these "laws." (In fact, there are only three Laws - as listed in My OP - all else is a mandate, edict, statute, code, act, declaration, bill, constitution, etc.)

If We follow the three Laws, with all else permissible, with no money needs, with all basic needs met for everyOne, We will abide just fine. (I think three is a quite memorable number... [grin])

Originally posted by Viesczy
You're right about solar/wind not returning the same level of energy as the chemical release of energy at this moment. I believe that there is a well orchestrated, concerted effort to ensure that we're never going to get off of fossil fuels due to the fact that FAR too many rich guys will cease being as rich.

A general comment about alt energy and in no way directed at anyone

Any faulting solar/wind/tide energy for its lack of output is a bit dubious; what generation are these technologies as compared to existing technology generations?

If we faulted cars when when they were in only generation 2 we'd still be riding horses.

Necessity is the mother of invention. If it was necessary that we generate all of our engergy by non fossil fuel means, those non fossil fuel means would be generated right quick and in a jiffy, but until there is no necessity to do so we won't see much growth in those fields as there is too much money against those fields or buying the patents/designs/IT for those fields. Rich folks want to stay rich.

Derek

I recommend reading My reply to the poster this was addressed to.

Rather than focus on these "less than oil" technologies, We should focus on getting the information about electrogravitic free energy out to the tipping point. EG free energy is better by orders of magnitude than oil...

Also... When money is removed, the "rich" now will not LOSE anything - They can still vacation in the Hamptons, own twenty houses, have Their fetes, and so on. The ONLY thing They will lose is Their power over Others. We all may choose the level of lifestyle that suits Us - even that of today's power elite. They will not drop in the standard of living They have.

But, of course, power over others (the "power" part of money/power/energy, which is like ice/water/steam) is intoxicating and They will not give it up easily. If most of Us demand it, though, free energy WILL be released.

reply to post by Amaterasu


Wow cool thanks for explaining it for me!

reply to post by NerdGoddess


Most welcome! Truly, this planet We're on has everything We need in vast abundance. And most everything We might want, too.

In energy abundance, with all the needs and virtually all the wants met, Our wants will be less. Hoarding will drop to nearly nothing.

There is a story of a Person who *poof* found Humeself ("Hume" is a genderless pronoun for a Human) in the Star Trek universe. Hume was given a house and a replicator.

"It will make anything I want???" Hume asked in glee.

"Anything," was the response. Hume got the replicator working on gold and filled a room. Then diamonds. Then furs. Then other "treasures," filling a room with each.

When Hume had filled the house with stuff, Hume looked around. What was the point, Hume asked Humeself.

And then Hume put everything into the disintegrator. All Hume wanted was food on the table and the roof over Hume's head.

And also... Rather than have a system of creating cheap things that break and need replacement so companies can make money, things will be made to last. HUGE amounts of the present waste will vanish.

This is a very interesting thread - I mean, really, I truly find it interesting. But, has also given me some questions.

First off, can someone please explain to me how free energy is supposed to be the end all, be all of human existence? I mean *work* still needs to be performed on some level, and isn't that what ultimately gives something 'value'?

Next, we act like it will eliminate the need for money, non-renewable resources (obv), and competition. Isn't it competition (and greed) responsible for creativity and innovation? The desire to get ahead?

Sorry, just trying to understand.

Originally posted by SquirrelNutz

This is a very interesting thread - I mean, really, I truly find it interesting. But, has also given me some questions.

First off, can someone please explain to me how free energy is supposed to be the end all, be all of human existence? I mean *work* still needs to be performed on some level, and isn't that what ultimately gives something 'value'?

Work is done for free all over the place - because it's someOne's bliss. Starving artists create Their art (presently hoping to sell it in the energy-scarce system We're in, but They would still create if They didn't have to sell it to try to survive), Linux was created for free, volunteers in many organizations abound, People help Others (think Katrina and other disasters), plus many more examples - and the necessary jobs noOne wants to do can be done now with robots.

[EDIT to add: Appreciation, name recognition, and satisfaction are the coins that pay Those who do Their bliss for free.]

Read the science "fiction" story linked in My OP to see how abundance functions.

Next, we act like it will eliminate the need for money, non-renewable resources (obv), and competition. Isn't it competition (and greed) responsible for creativity and innovation? The desire to get ahead?

No. Mostly it's a desire to better the world, though it is money that determines the successes in Our present system. Competition creates stress and strife, and greed is a function of energy scarcity. In abundance, greed has no meaning.

Sorry, just trying to understand.

It is a paradigm shift and it is not unusual for People to struggle with paradigm shifts. So no need to be sorry. [smile]

hells yea this is going ta make me car sooo fast!
will this black energy stuff make my face gross?
like the last time I turned to the dark side?Text

honestly though I'm stoked.
I need to get on my meditation horse
get up earlier
and start lifting me body more
need ta get ready fer me new boots.

i just ask they aren't made oh styrofoam...

Originally posted by mrZlu
hells yea this is going ta make me car sooo fast!
will this black energy stuff make my face gross?
like the last time I turned to the dark side?Text

honestly though I'm stoked.
I need to get on my meditation horse
get up earlier
and start lifting me body more
need ta get ready fer me new boots.

i just ask they aren't made oh styrofoam...

All jests aside, the label, "Dark" Energy is merely a label. It would be more precise to label it "Unseeable" - as in We can't see it - Energy. This does not mean it is unusable.

I ask that You pass on this information as far and as widely as You might.

OP let me first say what an amazing topic... i been discussing this with my father and my friends and they've brought up some questions that you answered here perfectly for me. The laws and the whole ideology behind it is amazing. Just think, no money. Everyone would just be able to live like were supposed to. All the stressors and most crimes are due to monetary concerns to begin with, this might even solve insecurity for women! (just playen that'll never happen)

I'm going to have to come back and read the links from your original post when i have a little more time, but just reading through the thread you have already built upon my original idea and i would like to see how far you've taken it.

Thank you for the knowledge sir

reply to post by Amaterasu


I appreciate your forward looking - and positive - outlook on how things should work. But, you're not explaining how (in definite terms) how this change could even occur, much less be sustained (eg, your Katrina example).

Believe me, I understand paradigm shifts, in thinking and reality. As a former project manager / engineer / technician of 14 years for a Fortune-500 semiconductor company, this is a fundamental aspect of the business/market (adapting quickly).

Give me a short description of how you think free energy would affect the various aspects agriculture, economics, politics, geography, the sciences - and research and development, and how speed of advancement in the various areas will be maintained with no outside forces to motivate; better design, speed to market, etc.

I understand the realization and implementation would be good for humanity, I'm just trying to understand HOW (the intricate details and process) that will make a better eventual society.

I think your idea of eternal volunteerism is a little unrealistic, since eventually it will be obvious who are workers and who are takers(abusers) - the workers will eventually get frustrated and demand some higher form of 'compensation' for their efforts no matter what culture you are apart - name recognition, etc will only go so far before people realize there is no added benefit to busting your ass, when others don't but (get to) 'live in harmony' with everyone else.

The alternative is to punish or banish those that refuse to be a part, and then your left with a 1984 scenario or large prison system.

I think all that changes are (obviously) 1) preserving the planet, since abandonment of fossil fuels is finally a reality, 2) slowing of global warming 3) reducing costs of power sources - All good, of course, but not the Utopian society you may be envisioning.

Originally posted by MicDiesal37
OP let me first say what an amazing topic... i been discussing this with my father and my friends and they've brought up some questions that you answered here perfectly for me. The laws and the whole ideology behind it is amazing. Just think, no money. Everyone would just be able to live like were supposed to. All the stressors and most crimes are due to monetary concerns to begin with, this might even solve insecurity for women! (just playen that'll never happen)

I'm going to have to come back and read the links from your original post when i have a little more time, but just reading through the thread you have already built upon my original idea and i would like to see how far you've taken it.

Thank you for the knowledge sir

Most welcome. Please share this information. If We can get awareness to the tipping point, We CAN create an effective heaven on this planet. (Looking forward to more input when You have read in depth.)

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Also... When money is removed, the "rich" now will not LOSE anything - They can still vacation in the Hamptons, own twenty houses, have Their fetes, and so on. The ONLY thing They will lose is Their power over Others. We all may choose the level of lifestyle that suits Us - even that of today's power elite. They will not drop in the standard of living They have.

I pray that from my U2Us to you, you will know that I am NOT arguing with you here at all, however...

I spent roughly two years playing World of Warcraft; and while it may seem odd, that taught me a lot about human nature.

You see, at first, WoW was an exceptionally elitist game, in terms of how it was structured. In the pre-expansion game, Blizzard created content which was sufficiently difficult that it wasn't even seen by more than 5% of the entire playerbase of the game, let alone completed. During the expansion packs, Blizzard's developers began to view that policy as a mistake, and moved to try and make the game a lot more inclusive and egalitarian, rather than essentially being a (virtual) paradise for the Lizard Hearted, as it had been in the beginning.

However, as Blizzard tried to do that, the Lizard Hearted in the game started adapting. If Blizzard got rid of all of the hard-coded forms of elitism in the game, Lizard Hearted players would begin adding entirely arbitrary social measures of a player's worth. Blizzard tried pretty much everything they could think of to combat the Lizard Hearted in this degree, but to no avail.

This led me to realise, that it really isn't money, or even control, that the Lizard Hearted primarily care about. What they relentlessly crave, is elitism itself. They need to have some justification for viewing themselves as being better than other people. For some reason, and I really don't understand why this is...the need for both a hierarchy, and them being at the top of it, seems to be the most fundamental element of their nature.

Like I said, I'm not bringing this up in order to argue with you about it. I'm bringing it up in order to stimulate discussion about what we can do about it. The only thing that I can really think of, is that eventually we'd simply have to tell the Lizard Hearted that they will need to leave Earth, and find another planet to go to where they can gratify their need for elitism.

Unfortunately however, although it will work for the majority of US, (that is, normal, non-psychopathic/reptilian gened humans) I don't think an offer of unlimited material goods is going to satisfy the Lizard Hearted, because material possessions are not what they really care about. What they really want is an environment where they are above, and everyone else is below...and they want that purely because it's the only way they know how to feel good about themselves psychologically.

They only care about material wealth, to the extent that they have it and we don't; because any positive difference between them and us, (that is, anything good that they have that we don't) offers them a form of justification for feeling superior to us...and it is that feeling of superiority that they really need.

Competitive sports *might* work; if we had the Olympics still, for example, and the Lizard Hearted could feel as though they were better than everyone else at a particular sport, for instance. That way they get the superiority rush they need, but not in a way that it detrimentally affects everyone else.

Unfortunately, however, that also may not work; and the reason why is because, from my observation of them, active deprivation of others, in addition to their own enrichment, seems to be a necessary part of the dynamic for them. If that is the case, probably the only thing that is likely to work, is for us to create a sufficiently positive, loving energetic environment, that the Lizard Hearted simply HAVE to leave, because they cannot tolerate it.

I'm also inclined to believe that that is the reason why they assassinate people like Gandhi or Jesus Christ. They really cannot tolerate love; they are absolutely allergic to it. So if someone like that comes in, who really tries to generate a lot of love, the only way that the Lizard Hearted can keep Earth as a hospitable environment for themselves energetically, is to kill that person, so as to remove the source of the love.

Originally posted by SquirrelNutz
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

I appreciate your forward looking - and positive - outlook on how things should work. But, you're not explaining how (in definite terms) how this change could even occur, much less be sustained (eg, your Katrina example).

It will not be a sudden change... As more and more businesses convert to free energy, the cost of energy will be removed. It may take a few years for the cost of energy to be fully stripped from everything. Meanwhile, prices will drop. More and more people will be able to afford units that take Them off the grid, freeing fund for more and more, as prices continue to drop. Eventually, there will be so much so cheap that the effort involved with worrying about that penny the week's worth of groceries cost is greater than the penny is worth. "Here. Take it."

As for sustaining this... As long as there is energy flowing, no money will be needed to account for energy.

Also, robots will become cheaper and cheaper, and We can focus on replacing all jobs no One really wants to do with them, freeing People from non-blissful labor. To be sure, as problems arise, leaders in solving them will emerge. Nothing like having a problem affecting One to make bliss out of solving it.

Meanwhile, People whose bliss it is to create robots, program them, and maintain them will do just that. If there are not enough to maintain that, those whose bliss it is to create robots (PLENTY of THEM) will create maintenance robots.

People whose bliss it is to cure People will become doctors, motivated not by money (as now) but by that bliss. It used to be that way... People whose bliss it is to research will research. People whose bliss it is to create art will do that. And so on. It's a very sustainable society.

Believe me, I understand paradigm shifts, in thinking and reality. As a former project manager / engineer / technician of 14 years for a Fortune-500 semiconductor company, this is a fundamental aspect of the business/market (adapting quickly).

Fair enough. [smile] Say... Know of a job for Me? I could sure use one. U2U Me if You think You can help... [grin]

Give me a short description of how you think free energy would affect the various aspects agriculture, economics, politics, geography, the sciences - and research and development, and how speed of advancement in the various areas will be maintained with no outside forces to motivate; better design, speed to market, etc.

Agriculture: Robot tillers will till the fields. Robots, maybe the size of squirrels, will plant, weed and remove insects in the fields. Robot harvesters will harvest. Robots will deliver, based on orders online, the produce to those requesting it.

Economics: See My description of how money will slip away above.

Politics: Politics will not exist as We know of it today. Leaders will emerge from the system as problems arise.

Geography: Huh? It is likely to stay the same, unless the planet heaves (not something EG will affect) - though the biodiversity will increase ON the geography. We will focus on maintaining the beauty of the environment, as well as organic farming. Many People will move to the skies and off the geography, leaving it to be its wild self except for food production.

Research and development: With no motive for secrecy, collaboration and Betterment goals will skyrocket, along with the wonders We discover and produce. Both the arts and the sciences will flourish.

And the motivation will be all the more as the coin of the realm, appreciation, name recognition, and self satisfaction are paid to those who better the planet.

I understand the realization and implementation would be good for humanity, I'm just trying to understand HOW (the intricate details and process) that will make a better eventual society.

I hope I'm doing passably well...

(see next post)

reply to post by SquirrelNutz

I think your idea of eternal volunteerism is a little unrealistic, since eventually it will be obvious who are workers and who are takers(abusers) - the workers will eventually get frustrated and demand some higher form of 'compensation' for their efforts no matter what culture you are apart - name recognition, etc will only go so far before people realize there is no added benefit to busting your ass, when others don't but (get to) 'live in harmony' with everyone else.

It's not "volunteerism." It's blissism. (If I may coin a word...) There will be no "takers." EveryOne may do as and have as They wish. But as Linux shows, appreciation, praise, name recognition, and a sense of accomplishment are plenty when what One is doing is One's bliss.

The alternative is to punish or banish those that refuse to be a part, and then your left with a 1984 scenario or large prison system.

There will be none who are NOT a part - except Those who break the three Laws. And Them... Yes. We banish. But that is not 1984.

I think all that changes are (obviously) 1) preserving the planet, since abandonment of fossil fuels is finally a reality, 2) slowing of global warming 3) reducing costs of power sources - All good, of course, but not the Utopian society you may be envisioning.

1) Yes. Indeed.
2) Global warming is caused by solar cycles. ALL the planets are warming. Humans are arrogant to think that Being which statistically speaking don't even exist on this planet are having THAT much of an effect.
3) Eliminating the cost of everything.
And...

It's NOT a utopia (though close). It is just one hell of a lot closer than what We have going now.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
reply to post by petrus4

 

I think your idea of eternal volunteerism is a little unrealistic, since eventually it will be obvious who are workers and who are takers(abusers) - the workers will eventually get frustrated and demand some higher form of 'compensation' for their efforts no matter what culture you are apart - name recognition, etc will only go so far before people realize there is no added benefit to busting your ass, when others don't but (get to) 'live in harmony' with everyone else.

I think there was a bit of an error here, sweetheart. You replied to a post by me, but you're quoting material I didn't write. It's ok, though...I know you're probably feeling frazzled and mixed up from fielding questions from so many of us! *hugs*

BTW, I agree with you completely on the Bliss thing.

Originally posted by Aleister Crowley

"Thou hast no right but to do thy Will."

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Also... When money is removed, the "rich" now will not LOSE anything - They can still vacation in the Hamptons, own twenty houses, have Their fetes, and so on. The ONLY thing They will lose is Their power over Others. We all may choose the level of lifestyle that suits Us - even that of today's power elite. They will not drop in the standard of living They have.

I pray that from my U2Us to you, you will know that I am NOT arguing with you here at all, however...

I always value Your input, petrus. [smile]

I spent roughly two years playing World of Warcraft; and while it may seem odd, that taught me a lot about human nature.

...

This led me to realise, that it really isn't money, or even control, that the Lizard Hearted primarily care about. What they relentlessly crave, is elitism itself. They need to have some justification for viewing themselves as being better than other people. For some reason, and I really don't understand why this is...the need for both a hierarchy, and them being at the top of it, seems to be the most fundamental element of their nature.

Yes, of course. They want to "feel better than." And They will be welcome to do so. They won't be able to PROVE it (in Their eyes), however. They can have exclusive parties, exclusive restaurants, exclusive whatever... But it will be no skin of anyOne's nose. Those excluded will still have all They need, and most (if not all) of what They want, and may follow Their bliss.

Like I said, I'm not bringing this up in order to argue with you about it. I'm bringing it up in order to stimulate discussion about what we can do about it. The only thing that I can really think of, is that eventually we'd simply have to tell the Lizard Hearted that they will need to leave Earth, and find another planet to go to where they can gratify their need for elitism.

I don't think We need to do anything... They will sequester Themselves. Do all the feeling better than and pat One anOther on Their backs. And meanwhile, We will make the universe better. Even for Them.

Unfortunately however, although it will work for the majority of US, (that is, normal, non-psychopathic/reptilian gened humans) I don't think an offer of unlimited material goods is going to satisfy the Lizard Hearted, because material possessions are not what they really care about. What they really want is an environment where they are above, and everyone else is below...and they want that purely because it's the only way they know how to feel good about themselves psychologically.

Unlimited goods are indeed not going to satisfy anyOne. Whether it's clubs of feeling better than or bettering the universe, satisfaction is never taken from material things.

They only care about material wealth, to the extent that they have it and we don't; because any positive difference between them and us, (that is, anything good that they have that we don't) offers them a form of justification for feeling superior to us...and it is that feeling of superiority that they really need.

It is this reason They have hidden Our birthright: access to the abundant energy of the universe. Once it gets out... All They will have is One Another.

Competitive sports *might* work; if we had the Olympics still, for example, and the Lizard Hearted could feel as though they were better than everyone else at a particular sport, for instance. That way they get the superiority rush they need, but not in a way that it detrimentally affects everyone else.

There is always that, I suppose. Sure. Let 'em have a go.

Unfortunately, however, that also may not work; and the reason why is because, from my observation of them, active deprivation of others, in addition to their own enrichment, seems to be a necessary part of the dynamic for them. If that is the case, probably the only thing that is likely to work, is for us to create a sufficiently positive, loving energetic environment, that the Lizard Hearted simply HAVE to leave, because they cannot tolerate it.

Once the cat is out of the bag, They will have no power over others. That is why EG is hidden now.

I'm also inclined to believe that that is the reason why they assassinate people like Gandhi or Jesus Christ. They really cannot tolerate love; they are absolutely allergic to it. So if someone like that comes in, who really tries to generate a lot of love, the only way that the Lizard Hearted can keep Earth as a hospitable environment for themselves energetically, is to kill that person, so as to remove the source of the love.

Perhaps... But if We can get EG out... They will have to draw away, one way or another. Or adapt. [shrug] Meanwhile, Let's not give up just because They will fight Us.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by Amaterasu
reply to post by petrus4

 

I think your idea of eternal volunteerism is a little unrealistic, since eventually it will be obvious who are workers and who are takers(abusers) - the workers will eventually get frustrated and demand some higher form of 'compensation' for their efforts no matter what culture you are apart - name recognition, etc will only go so far before people realize there is no added benefit to busting your ass, when others don't but (get to) 'live in harmony' with everyone else.

I think there was a bit of an error here, sweetheart. You replied to a post by me, but you're quoting material I didn't write. It's ok, though...I know you're probably feeling frazzled and mixed up from fielding questions from so many of us! *hugs*

BTW, I agree with you completely on the Bliss thing.

Ooops. It's late and I clicked the wrong post, pasted from the other one and failed to note You snuck Your post in... LOL! For the record... That was a reply to squirrel... LOL!

EDIT to add: Damn the character limits, anyway! (I used to have plenty of room until ATS shrunk replies to 5000 characters. Wouldn't have had to go to another post before.)

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Meanwhile, Let's not give up just because They will fight Us.

No, no...I'm not advocating giving up, at all. NEVER.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Meanwhile, Let's not give up just because They will fight Us.

No, no...I'm not advocating giving up, at all. NEVER.

Right on! It's either Them or Us at this point, and I aim for it to be Us.

Thank You for Your spirit and Your willingness to fight!

reply to post by Amaterasu


While i Flag & Star you for this thread, there is something i think you fail to consider.

What do you think would happen if energy was free with the population increase on this planet? That´s right, it would be heaven at first without money and slavery, however our population increase would be insurmountable over a short period of time as a consequence. Overpopulation would lead to an ever increasing rate of overharvesting the planets finite resources, forcing us into space before we like locusts have picked the planet clean.

While i agree space is the next step and we need to hurry, at the same time i do not think we have the technology yet to colonize space, even WITH antigravity drives. We need warp drive tech or similar.

This might be a reason to the suppresion of this tech, if indeed they have their best people working on this (like you would expect)

Only they would be able to forsee this.