Masonic question

Hi there,

Well that's terrible buddy. No hard feelings of course. I just hope you decide to change your perceptions. I think we both know I truly respect the public position of modern Masonry as stated above. But to hold any group or ideal on such a lofty pedestal is asking for problems later on.

If you do decide to make a re-evaluation of those ideals, I hope you take my words into more consideration.

Good luck to you on that.

X

Originally posted by Xatnys
Hi there,

Well that's terrible buddy. No hard feelings of course. I just hope you decide to change your perceptions. I think we both know I truly respect the public position of modern Masonry as stated above. But to hold any group or ideal on such a lofty pedestal is asking for problems later on.

If you do decide to make a re-evaluation of those ideals, I hope you take my words into more consideration.

Good luck to you on that.

I disagree. Masons are, by definition, good men, else they would not have been admitted in the first place. We are one of the few groups that requires a man be a good, moral, upright man BEFORE admission, and after admission, we hold him to a higher moral standard than society does. And, if a man falls below that standard, we take action to remove him... it happens on rare occassions, and in a far far smaller percentage of our group than in society in general.

I do understand what the point is that you are trying to make, as any organziation made up of mortal and fallible men is bound to have failures, but the goal we are reaching for is a laudable one, and one we are not willing to lower the bar on, if you follow me.

I see your point sir, but that type of lofty view is still a potentially dangerous one. It doesn't matter that mason's(or any group for that matter) for the majority are kind and honorable, heck I'm sure of it just as much as you are(well maybe not as much but you get my drift), but I still think it's unhealthy to take an extreme view in any situation.

Heck I see it done on here all the time, people look at things so black and white, it's just not the way the world really is. You never have a full and total view of any situation from the outside. So why take a extreme stance on it until you've seen all angles?

Once again, I appreciate the dialog we're having.

X

Originally posted by Xatnys
Heck I see it done on here all the time...

You've had an ATS account for 2 days, so "all the time" to you consists of ummmm... 2 days. I certainly appreciate your in depth analysis and the extensive amount of thought you have put into it.
.

Originally posted by Xatnys


I see your point sir, but that type of lofty view is still a potentially dangerous one. It doesn't matter that mason's(or any group for that matter) for the majority are kind and honorable, heck I'm sure of it just as much as you are(well maybe not as much but you get my drift), but I still think it's unhealthy to take an extreme view in any situation.

Heck I see it done on here all the time, people look at things so black and white, it's just not the way the world really is. You never have a full and total view of any situation from the outside. So why take a extreme stance on it until you've seen all angles?

Once again, I appreciate the dialog we're having.

X

Well, you are right, of course, extremism in any form is a bad thing... you understand my point, and I understand yours... there are no saints anywhere alive today, and certainly no demons... those that make the claim of evil against masonry are fools, since the evidence to the contrary is overwhelming... but they are entitled to their foolishness. My point is to show that they are being foolish, not to hold masons up as saints.
.. good, honorable men with high levels of integrity and concern for society, true, but not saints... just good men working hard to be better men.


[edit on 9/26/04 by theron dunn]

I think I can make a pretty good metaphorical case for George Washington, Ethan Allen, John Paul Jones, Paul Revere, John Hancock, Benjamin Franklin and other Freemasons being "saints of freedom" based on their contributions in the establishing of the US.

I see nothing extreme in this position.
.

Originally posted by df1
I think I can make a pretty good metaphorical case for George Washington, Ethan Allen, John Paul Jones, Paul Revere, John Hancock, Benjamin Franklin and other Freemasons being "saints of freedom" based on their contributions in the establishing of the US.

I see nothing extreme in this position.

I agree, but I think we are talking apples and oranges here...

You've had an ATS account for 2 days, so "all the time" to you consists of ummmm... 2 days. I certainly appreciate your in depth analysis and the extensive amount of thought you have put into it.

Hey now bubba,

Wrap this around your brain for a sec if you will...

I've lurked these boards for over a year, actually I'll be round a year and a half come December or so....

Assumptions can be bad as well buddy. Granted we're all guilty of such things from time to time, but the moral is there nonetheless.

Oh and while I've got your attention:

You stated you viewed Masons as saints, not that you did so from a fond "metaphorical" perspective. If that was indeed your position, then you didn't assert that at all until today. I'd advise next time you'd do well to mention that earlier on in a dialog.


X

Well, you are right, of course, extremism in any form is a bad thing... you understand my point, and I understand yours...

Indeed. Thanks for the great exchange though Mr. Dunn(if I call you that incorrectly, forgive me). I hope to hear more from you, all of the masons in fact, throughout my tenure as an active, posting member.



X

Xatnys was spinning my words for his own purposes, whatever those purposes may be. Since most of his condescension was directed at me, I hope this ends his rantings on this subject.

Originally posted by Xatnys
masons are saints of freedom

You stated you viewed Masons as saints, not that you did so from a fond "metaphorical" perspective.

"saints of freedom" is certainly a metaphor as no such group exists and it was your metaphor. Gimme a break.
.


[edit on 26-9-2004 by df1]

Xatnys was spinning my words for his own purposes, whatever those purposes may be. Since most of his condescension was directed at me, I hope this ends his rantings on this subject.

Whoa nelly.

I've spun nothing. Read my above post, if your position was that of metaphors, then you took too long to state that, and that means you are in fact, the one who strung out our little exchange dear fellow.

I have motives in life, but none of them concern you nor whatever nefarious purpose you've managed to conjure up. I'm a student, of many things, you learn things from many situations in life, well, I do at least.

This will exchange will end in whatever manner you choose, as I'm just responding to the things you've spewed forth since your first post.

X



[edit on 26-9-2004 by Xatnys]

Originally posted by Xatnys
if your position was that of metaphors, then you took too long to state that...

It is surprising to me that the person that used the metaphor, "saints of freedom", would expect anything other than a metaphorical response. It is also surprising that you think message boards have time limits.

Perhaps you should just watch for another year, I don't think you understand how this works yet.
.

[edit on 26-9-2004 by df1]

It is surprising to me that the person that used the metaphor, "saints of freedom", would expect anything other than metaphorical response. It is also surprising that you think message boards have time limits.

Perhaps you should just watch for another year, I don't think you understand how this works yet.

Now now, my good man!
When I have said something in the form of a metaphor, and you respond by saying:

Actually I do believe this.

It says that you, in actuality do believe this. It seems that you're looking for a loophole to what I have said, but I assure you I don't speak in rhyme, or riddle, and I don't double talk.

Actually, I belive that it's been your position to "poke a hole" this entire time, but know that your device has been rendered blunt my friend, as I have no alterior motives in this situation.

Now see, I stated that as something I actually believe, do you see the context?

X

Perhaps you should just watch for another year, I don't think you understand how this works yet.

Ouch, truly a terrible and hurtful thing to say.

I realize you're on the recoil at the moment, so I'll not hold it against you this time bubba.

Oh, and find comfort that despite you're ever so kind words, I'll not be going anywhere!

How nice indeed!

X

Isn't this just sad?

A fairly new poster accidentally (?) stumbles into an ATS mason thread and wham- bite, bite, bite

The pro-masons are not here to pursue knowledge or 'deny ignorance.' They are here to maintain ignorance and stifle knowledge. This is double-speak for masons, isn't it 'guys?'

Look at Secret Societies- most are mason threads RUN by masons thrashing everyone else into silence. Real conspiracy forum-

Originally posted by PublicGadfly
Isn't this just sad?

A fairly new poster accidentally (?) stumbles into an ATS mason thread and wham- bite, bite, bite

The pro-masons are not here to pursue knowledge or 'deny ignorance.' They are here to maintain ignorance and stifle knowledge. This is double-speak for masons, isn't it 'guys?'

Look at Secret Societies- most are mason threads RUN by masons thrashing everyone else into silence. Real conspiracy forum-

Ah get over it.
You're boring.


I could go on and on about how you simply don't like Freemasons defending themselves from slander and how you have posted this same old tired argument again and again, but that would make me as repetitive and as tedious as yourself.

Get a life.

Originally posted by PublicGadfly
Isn't this just sad?

A fairly new poster accidentally (?) stumbles into an ATS mason thread and wham- bite, bite, bite

The pro-masons are not here to pursue knowledge or 'deny ignorance.' They are here to maintain ignorance and stifle knowledge. This is double-speak for masons, isn't it 'guys?'

Look at Secret Societies- most are mason threads RUN by masons thrashing everyone else into silence. Real conspiracy forum-

Uh, fly? ANY evidence you might have to support ANY of your contentions would be nice... but all you provide is bilious blathering boviation.

Slander too, but hey, what can you expect from someone that offers nothing of real value like you do? Oh well, thanks for not disappointing.