Masonic question

Originally posted by LTD602
I'm already more qualified than you to argue the issues. Plus, I'm able to distinguish betwen garbage and actual research. Furthermore, I'm not here to spread my pet theories at the expense of rational opposing points of view.

All three of those statements are unprovable by you. Why is it that you make unsupported statements as being fact?

Your "pet theories" are based on what? An open house!

When I was a kid I went to a 'haunted house' (Halloween) but I never imagined I'd become a goblin. That must have been some open house you went to. Don't want to share any of the intricacies do you?

j/k (mason humor)

Know what, Gadfly ??

Don't listen to me. Pay no heed. Turn instead to Theron Dunn, Masonic Light, MirthfulMe, etc. They'll tell you all you need to know.

Incidentally, most of your arguments can be refuted by incredibly simply logic and common sense. That's how flimsy they are. It doesn't take a Mason, Gadfly.

I believe you are aware of Theron Dunn's position, as well as ML's, MirthfulMe's, and the position of other Masons on this board. I happen to agree with that position wholeheartedly, and insofar as they will allow me, I will defend that position to the best of my ability and capacity as a non-Mason.

I hope my own position and intentiions are clear to you now.

Originally posted by LTD602
I hope my own position and intentiions are clear to you now.

Not really.

As to the others you have listed- theron is funny, the other two are 'dry.' There is some humor in page after page of Bro. Pike. After all, how could some guy that pulls arcane mumbo-jumbo together and calls it philosophy be taken serious? Kind of reads like an old time 'Harry Potter' and the rites of the most majestic wizards and ghouls of Kadoshville or some such thing.

Someone posted on one of these many, many mason threads that reading Pike made them drowsy. That should be a warning sign. Without Pike masonry sure would look better.

You're not Southern Jurisdiction, wouldn't you agree?

Originally posted by PublicGadfly

Originally posted by LTD602
I hope my own position and intentiions are clear to you now.

Not really.

Well, I'm sorry it isn't. If you want to know something about me, go ahead and ask. I don't know what else to tell you, if you at all care.

Funny you should mention that- actually I do care.
There are many masons on and off this board that are good guys (as I've said ad infinitum). The �questions� and barbs that seem to rile you and a few others so very much are directed at ���masonry���. Not the masonry you will join. Not the masonry in the U.K., the masonry that exists beyond the local lodge, the masonry that from time to time issues an 'instruction' or suggestion, the masonry that causes a person to forget their obligations to personal morality and others in the fulfillment of an arcane oath.

Some masons drop out of masonry when they realize that masonic oaths are contrary to their well-being. Don't belittle these people. Learn from them. If you can gain something from masonry enjoy and appreciate it. If not, then like a bad woman cut it loose and move on.

Look back at many of the posts made by masons- are those the kind of things you want to tell someone in real life? If the answer to this is YES then I am sadly mistaken about you. When you go up your degrees enjoy them but always remember what other oaths you may be compromising. I still believe no one could get a fair trial against a mason if the witnesses were his lodge brothers.

The masons on this board that 'pounce' (worst being ML and theron) make masonry look bad. They show a dark side, a 'with us or against us' attitude. This is wrong. I do know of what I speak.

I'm an American. The one thing that makes America great is it's ability for self-introspection. When America looses this then Rome II will make the world tremble- make no mistake about that. Warts, blemishes, bad things and good, as long as America tries to revisit it's failings it will grow as a thought, an idea. When that stops Ceasar will smile in his grave, Tamerlane, Attila and Genghis will dance and shout.

Back to masonry- there are some real demons in there. They may not ever be exposed but
that doesn't keep people from trying. Pike was brilliant. He was the greatest publicist masonry has ever had and he hurt masonry terribly. Pike was a bad man. I might just start a Pike thread when I get some things wrapped up.

Anyway, you asked~

PS- nice ava LTD, I don't believe in mysticism

The masons on this board that 'pounce' (worst being ML and theron) make masonry look bad. They show a dark side, a 'with us or against us' attitude. This is wrong. I do know of what I speak.

You seem to be reading a different replies to everyone else I think PG.

The alternative to a response is to let you get away with the remarks you have posted up, having disregard to the truth of the subject and working on your own firmly held beliefs.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, and you voice it. Why on earth are you concerned about being challenged on your opinion, that is what seems contradictory. If it is what you believe then , to hell with what anybody esle says, including me.

Just remember , what you extend to yourself, you should extend to others.

Originally posted by billmcelligott
You seem to be reading a different replies to everyone else I think PG.

I can't �quote� all that you posted billmcelligott because I get too many warnings for quoting, so let me do it differently.

I'm not referring to any posts different then the ones almost everyone else on �the mason threads� sees. I stand by what I posted. If I find that I am wrong then I will post that, as I have.

Don't let me get away with anything- I surely hope that is NOT taken as my intention because it is not. LTD seemed genuine so I posted a bit much in response, sorry if the response was not what was expected.

I have regard for the truth bill, don't put words in my posts that aren't there. (unless you want to- ) The truth is the only thing that separates us as a society from many others. Often times the truth is a painful pill. (remember the Sam Houston thread)

No, it is NOT �to hell with anybody else� for me. It is I disagree and XYZ is mistaken. You've read enough of the posts to know this.

If I seem worried then let me put that 'rumor' to rest, I am not.

�what I extend- - -�

Absolutely bill, absolutely. I ask for nothing. I don't ask for readers or replies. I stumbled across a mason thread by accident shortly after coming to ATS and was appalled. Not at the nay-sayers but at the masons. I don't feel like letting misinformation and disinfo flood the board. If I am wrong then throw me in the bin.

It surely won't be the first time in my life I have been wrong about something.

If you can't step back and survey the pouncing then maybe one of us needs get new glasses. Could be me but I don't think so.

As long as I see mason 101 threads and 'what good boys we be' stuff I want to make sure an opposing view point is presented if applicable. Call it a 'duty' or whatever one deems appropriate.


On another note- I notice the MoM by your sig.- if it's what I think it is then 'salute' if not then never mind.

Originally posted by PublicGadfly
I want to make sure an opposing view point is presented if applicable.

You want to make sure an opposing view is presented, even when nothing exists to oppose. And unfortunately your interpretation of the word "applicable" is stretched to the extreme and you write the same unfounded accusations and distortions repeatedly. Also your posts are verbose beyond what is needed to make your point(s).

I have not responded to you in weeks for the above reasons and it will likely be a far longer time before I respond to you again.
.



[edit on 24-9-2004 by df1]

PublicGadfly;

First; I am curioius why you put peoples names in italics but not the monikers people use on the forum. Are you trying to make a point, or to simply highlight the persons name as a sign of respect?

Second, I note that you did not post for a whole week, were you, perhaps, in Jacksonville, Arkansas during that week?

Oh, and I have no problem with your postings, I just wish you had a tad bit of factual data to back your opinions up, we might be interested in taking you more seriously, but since you only post your opinion, with nothing to back it...

at least we reply with facts...

Just curious.

[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]

Originally posted by esther

What's so special about Jacksonville, AR ?

esther.

Ever been there? NOTHING is special about the place, but I know that Michael Gentry spent a week there recently at a conference, and Mr. Gadfly has never denied that he is indeed the inimitable Gentry.

By the way, how'd that debate go? Who won? Both sides are probably claiming victory. . .

Actually, I suspect the Grand Master won the debate as the e511 crew has been intensely silent about the whole thing, and if they had won anything, they would be crowing about it...

What is funny is that they recorded the whole thing, promising to publish it in its entirity without editing... lets see if they can keep their word about this... g-d knows they have been dishonest about everything ELSE... and they love censoring. At their site, if they don't like what you post, they just delete it, or edit it down...

It would be funny if it weren't so pitiful...

Edited to add n't to the were... they ARE pitiful, which is why they aren't funny...

[edit on 9/24/04 by theron dunn]

I'd love to see a transcript/tape of that debate. Might one be available somewhere?

Maybe I should call Mike Gentry and ask him for a copy . . . . . ROFL.

No need to call Mike.. just ask gadfly... he seems to BE Mike... or at least hasn't denied it...

PG:
I have regard for the truth bill, don't put words in my posts that aren't there. (unless you want to- ) The truth is the only thing that separates us as a society from many others. Often times the truth is a painful pill. (remember the Sam Houston thread)

Fair enough,

No, it is NOT �to hell with anybody else� for me. It is I disagree and XYZ is mistaken. You've read enough of the posts to know this.

Did I say that , I shall have to check.

�what I extend- - -�

Absolutely bill, absolutely. I ask for nothing. I don't ask for readers or replies. I stumbled across a mason thread by accident shortly after coming to ATS and was appalled. Not at the nay-sayers but at the masons. I don't feel like letting misinformation and disinfo flood the board. If I am wrong then throw me in the bin.

yes but you keep geting back out again.

If you can't step back and survey the pouncing then maybe one of us needs get new glasses. Could be me but I don't think so.

not caught that one sorry ?

As long as I see mason 101 threads and 'what good boys we be' stuff I want to make sure an opposing view point is presented if applicable. Call it a 'duty' or whatever one deems appropriate.

OK

On another note- I notice the MoM by your sig.- if it's what I think it is then 'salute' if not then never mind.

MoM stands for Ministry of Masons, a little group I belong to that defends Freemasonry, bit like have quote will travel.

Talking of quotes , did you get a warning for quoting someone. I got warned for a short answer. I did not know you had to type a lot , I just typed what I thought was a good question and a good answer. ?? I was confused by it.

[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]

No esther you got no points from me. As I have said before, let me repeat:

I do NOT complain other than up front and in the forums.

I have gotten fined, red-flag, pts. and warnings all in mason threads. That's how it is. I have to laugh sometimes at the things I get dinged for when I look at the posts just above mine and see the same thing or worse.

Look at all the times some mason has posted �liar� and the like. If I was a whiner a few would be sporting red flags- it's not my style to complain behind the scenes. I was hoping this was evident

I have complained about a lot of people in my life- all upfront. I'm not saying there is any thing wrong with complaining behind the scenes, it's just something I have not felt like doing.

Whistleblowers often times need the anonymous shield and it's good that it is there. Without whistleblowers Enron and the rest would have gone on and on. I support anonymous complaints.

MODs have a hard job. I wouldn't do it. Some are biased some are not. Some are reasonable others are not. Whatever they are or are not they do a good job keeping these ATS forums from imploding.

Just my opinion, I have been wrong ~

*edit- I have gotten dinged for quoting YOU esther - coincidence, huh?

[edit on 24/9/2004 by PublicGadfly]

[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]

Originally posted by PublicGadfly
No esther you got no points from me. As I have said before, let me repeat:

I do NOT complain other than up front and in the forums.

I have gotten fined, red-flag, pts. and warnings all in mason threads. That's how it is. I have to laugh sometimes at the things I get dinged for when I look at the posts just above mine and see the same thing or worse.

Look at all the times some mason has posted �liar� and the like. If I was a whiner a few would be sporting red flags- it's not my style to complain behind the scenes. I was hoping this was evident

I have complained about a lot of people in my life- all upfront. I'm not saying there is any thing wrong with complaining behind the scenes, it's just something I have not felt like doing.

Whistleblowers often times need the anonymous shield and it's good that it is there. Without whistleblowers Enron and the rest would have gone on and on. I support anonymous complaints.

MODs have a hard job. I wouldn't do it. Some are biased some are not. Some are reasonable others are not. Whatever they are or are not they do a good job keeping these ATS forums from imploding.

Just my opinion, I have been wrong ~

*edit- I have gotten dinged for quoting YOU esther - coincidence, huh?

[edit on 24/9/2004 by PublicGadfly]

You really can't see the difference between the way you post and the way masons post, such that you think the moderators are incorrect in their judgments?

Just for ONE, masons do not come here making wild and crazy assertions, but, rather, defend against baseless attacks. You have been asked manifold times for proof of your assertions, and all you do is continue your attacks, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary of your assertions...

When someone lies about something, is it surprising that they would be called on it? Is it not one of the rules of this forum that KNOWINGLY posting false information is not allowed? Yet there are those on this forum that do so, constantly, in a most abusive fashion, yet masons have not done that... frankly, in the face of the slanderous, baseless, vile attacks we have faced, I would argue that we have been quite restrained.

I am surprised that you, gadfly, cannot see the difference, being so incisive and astute, as you are...


As for complaints, to my knowldge, none have been filed, but, rather, the moderators, doing their job appropriately, have noted certain... behaviors that are disruptive to the exchange of ideas and the free flow of information, and have taken quite restrained actions to call those behaviors to a halt...

Do you have any evidence that anyone has filed a complaint against you? I mean, I see no mechanism on this forum or the entire board, for that matter, for calling in a TOS complaint... I have always assumed, from reading the occassional moderator comment, that they monitor the forums, and moderate with a light, just hand...

Thanks though, for sharing your thoughts with us... really, it is refreshing to see honest expression without all the vituperation for a change...