How Much Blood is on Your Hands? See how you score!

reply to post by OptimusSubprime

Optimus, you strike me as someone who can wash the stain away.
For some reason, I get good vibes from you.
Thanks for posting.

reply to post by saltdog

Thanks Salt!
For whatever you have done for me....
Perhaps you can tell me sometime?
#, buddy, I really have been through more than you could ever save me from. LOL!
But, thanks anyway.

reply to post by SurrealisticPillow


Shoot I hope alot of blood. Why should I care about some foreign American hating Ahole getting killed?

reply to post by sarra1833

Oh, you DO have a number.
Perhaps it is 0. But, you DO have a number. Of course, 0 is not really a number....
But, I guess the question is, can you support KILLING when you don't really understand why?
Don't you think you should understand?
I could help you with the number, but you have to answer the basic questions.
Keep in mind, this is an internet forum. This is supposed to be fun, in an enlightening sort of way.

reply to post by seeker1977

Politicians are generally evil by nature, 100% of the time they are at least liars by nature. If not lying they only present the truth when it benefits them. Attempting to blame the military or NATO country citizens using Iraq, Afghanistant and Libya is complete ignornance at it's best.

Wow.
But...considering that the above is true about politicans....and that citizens who willingly enlist in the military doing so willingly....and then "carry out orders" to murder others....
can you not see the problem there?

My spouse is a veteran Army MP. He has served in Panama, Germany, and domestically in the US during disasters. Never killed anyone, and has been traumatized beyond true "healing" by the manipulative "training" that he recieved.

Clearly, you have scars as well, and a bitterness within.

Those who join the military know what they are going into....they just don't know the hell they are going to endure while being trained, or the things that will be expected of them until it becomes a point of "he said to, so I will" or, alternatively, "he says to, but I won't".

Military NEVER carries out orders to murder innocent people (not U.S. military anyways). In fact the U.S. military will take extreme risks to make sure innocents are protected even when it adds more danger to themselves. They even go to extreme risks when people that are hostile may not yet be clearly hostile, benefit of the doubt is almost always provided.

I did see hipocrasy but any government around the world will see the same. There were times when horrible things were going on and I would have loved to help end the atrocities. As I stated though since helping wouild not benefit the U.S. it seems they weren't important enough. Our troops have more intelligence than most civilians, they do not act blindly because someone higher up said so normally. When we get involved there are legitimate atrocities being commited unfortunately we only seem to care when we may benefit by becoming involved.

reply to post by SurrealisticPillow


If you breathe air, you have blood on your hands. Every human being is guilty.

The only question is if you disagree.

Overall, I do not...at least in terms of NATO.

reply to post by RSF77

To those people without the internet? What would I say?
I would say, find your self on the scale between 0 and 5. You are there somewhere.
If you gain some knowledge, and you realize a sin you may have committed, you have the power to wash your hands of that sin. If you never gain the knowledge of any sin you have committed, meaning you are acting based upon the will of others that you respect and you don't really understand your own actions, you haven't committed any sin.
You are innocent. You are no more guilty than an imbecile.
But, the rest of us have some blood on our hands. Blood stains we have to TRY to remove.

Originally posted by seeker1977
invading and getting rid of Saddam Hussein was the right thing no matter what.

en.wikipedia.org...
"Former CIA Near East Division Chief James Chritchfield maintains that the CIA played no direct role in the 1963 coup, but that it viewed the Ba'ath Party favorably and offered support after they had taken over".
"In June 1972 all foreign businesses including the Iraq Petroleum Company were seized and Iraq declared oil would be used as "a political weapon in the struggle against imperialism and Zionism."

So, lets get this straight. Your secret service guys put the 'evil-doer' Saddam Hussain dictator into power. When he became the new ROBIN HOOD by taking the money away from the rich and giving it to the poor; how unthinkable, how trecharous can a leader be.

So taking down one Robin Hood leader justifies doing the following:-
1) Fallujah. American G.I.s were stopping people leaving that city before it was bombed. It is now covered in DU. In fact with all of the spent ammo filled with DU, radioactive water-table and dust storms, all of Iraq will be dead in 10-20 years with cancer.
2) 'Shock-an-Awe'. WOW, what an awsome 'game' show. Lets bomb all of those 'military' buildings called suburbia. I remember hearing MSM saying 15k people died that week because for some strange bizaar reason their ordinary houses were in fact secret millitary buildings.
3) 10 years of sanctions from 1991. WHO (World Health Organisation) stated that 5000 children were never reaching the age of 2-2.5 years old every single month. Death toll = 10x12x5k = ~600k.

Your idea of saving the Kurds is a laugh. How can you save a person filled with DU?

So to kill (once ally) a leader, the US massacres the entire country.
Remember Afganistan. CIA trained the Taliban in fighting the Russians. The western MSM labeled the Taliban 'war-heroes' and 'freedom fighters' in 1987 when the 'nasty' FOREIGN Russian invaders retreated. Now the Taliban are 'evil-doers'. LOL What a laugh. This is why NATO fails to win. The CIA trained the Taliban in the first place.

Everyone that has blood on their hands goes to hell. Politicians signing declarations of war with blood ink, arms dealers, weapons manufacturers, soldiers, terrorists and supporters of war are all going down on Judgement Day.

reply to post by seeker1977

seeker,
I am not ignorant. I am not judging you, although you may think I am.
Perhaps I am asking you to value yourself, and your own ability to decide what you do with your life.
All actions have consequences. You can hurt people, or you can help people. That is your choice.
Ultimately, it is just you and a sky full of stars. How will you relate to the stars?
I hope you understand what I am talking about.

Originally posted by seeker1977
Military NEVER carries out orders to murder innocent people (not U.S. military anyways).

Remember Fallujah, Shock-an-Awe.
Ammesty Internation estimates 1 million INNOCENT people died in the Iraq occupation.

reply to post by rival

Hey rival, wouldn't it be great to not only be a participant in history, we all are, but to have some feedback that you made a difference?
What an opportunity we have.
Every day is an opportunity to make a difference, yet we think we have NO power.
Why is that?

reply to post by g146541

If you believe there is nothing wrong with a "5",
and you believe that everyone this 5 killed deserved to die,
then, that would make you at least a 4.
If you end up like your 5, then you become a 5.
Pretty straightforward. Judge yourself, I will not.

reply to post by Chargeit

You don't really have to care about anyone. Compassion is not universal.
It is entirely within the realm of nature that you can have NO compassion. Our leaders don't.
Perhaps you should run for office. I would prefer you not do so, but, what the heck do you care what I think?

reply to post by SurrealisticPillow


Sometimes you have to hurt people to help people. Almost always the worst things happening around the world are by people that have power enough to do what they want without opposition. In many cases we have been able to provide assistance to rid the world of certain absolute evils.

My entire family has served in the military and none did so blindly. For most it was out of a sense of protection for fellow citizens, they were willing to put their lives at risk for others. There is no greater sacrifice, being willing to offer your life for others should not be ridiculed. Most of the time we believe our county is in the right and are even willing to offer our lives for citizens of other countries, and again for the most part the U.S. has had legitimate reasons. I would have been a lifetime service member myself if I felt we would alway do the right thing.

If I were in charge we would have helped many other countries, of course we would have been helping countries with no freedom. The press would report only what the people in power allowed, I would have been seen as most likely evil for attempting to end many atrocities just as the U.S. is seen now. There are countries where I saw such things that made me want to kill (if you knew me you would know that a statement like that would never come litely), we were not allowed to be involved because it seemed they were not any strategic value. Attempting to lump all citizens in a group blaming murders on makes the military look much worse, At least come up with regimes that were good to their people to try and blame people for standing up against them. This thread is very offensive to those that have tried to do there best to help pthers even putting their lifes on the line to do so.

reply to post by seeker1977

The pressure you guys are under is unnatural. It is simply wrong, and I hate to say it, but our "leaders" know it.
They simply don't care.
Ultimately, YOU are responsible, in your own conscience, for YOUR actions. That is the important thing. That is the stain that you have to deal with.
How far you go down this paved road to hell determines how much blood you have to try to remove.
Good luck.

reply to post by Rapha


Judgement day? That was today, yesterday, and tomorrow. We 'go down' every day. Its actually kind of fun. Sometimes thoughts of being a 0 on the scale torture ones mind, but like the OP states ...at a certain level the 'stain' cant be washed off. Its like a tatoo except instead of laser removal its only death that will remove the stain. The choice not to subscribe to the belief in a diety of any sort forces one to face judgement 24/7. Because after death is nothing. Only what you leave here. The belief in a diety such as 'god', 'buddah' or any other nonsense gives people such as yourself an imaginary weapon to smash the injustices of the world that you percieve, as well as a hope for divine revenge. Thats sad. There is no forgiveness or grace. Just here and now, positive and negative. What you leave here is your eternity. Death is the end.

reply to post by Gorman91

Gorman, you can't get out that easy.
Not every human is to blame. If you kill for survival, you have the blood of your prey for dinner, and your bloodstained hands are those of a human that is feeding.
There are many that are out of this system. Many that don't participate by choice or chance.
2012 is perhaps a year that might just signal a big change, but we all have to hop on that train.

reply to post by SurrealisticPillow


Neither I nor anyone I know would have any so called "stains" on their conscience. Anytime we acted we did so in the best interest of the majority of the people, and I mean people asa whole (not just U.S. or NATO citizens) because a lot of times we were acting for people in other countries.

Many people have the luxury of never leaving home,never knowing what was really going on in the world and judging everyone that is forced to use violence to help others. Sometimes violence cannot be avoided and the igorant will aklways question it because they would like to feel superior or justify why they did not participate.

The same goes for anyone, even those that participate they can sometime latch on to anything to justify their reasons. However in the cases you mentioned actual factual history should clearly justify anyone stepping in to help the people, as I said if we were completely impartial there are many other countries we should have helped if the actual reasons claimed were the only reasons for us to be involved.

reply to post by seeker1977

seeker,
You MUST understand something, and that is, that you HAVE to understand what you are doing.
You are not a robot. You are a human being.
Yes, many people join the military, and many people just follow orders. The moment YOU know something is wrong, YOU have to get out of that system or you will have this on your conscience. This is the stain I am talking about.
If you DON'T CARE, then that is your choice. I am only saying that you have the stain. That is MY view, and I believe it is a UNIVERSAL truth.
If you are doing good, the people that you are helping will SMILE and thank you. If some do, but some die, then what the hell are your there for?
I will tell you, you are not there for humanitarian reasons although you may sometimes get some feeble feedback that seems to support that idea.