believers in jesus...please explain this..

Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
USA....land of the brainwashed and indoctrinated

We all know the Bible is fiction...well, us people that havent been indoctrinated into believing the nonsense written within.

The believers will explain everything....but they will only explain what is written in the book. If these people were to really question their religion, by using other texts/books/evidence they may also wonder why it is full of contradictions and things that can be explained by science.

Its like me saying i can fly, and then presenting a book i wrote about flying as evidence lol

"Everyone came from Adam".....not possible im afraid. From 2 people came 7 billion.....and we arent all backwards with extra limbs through inbreeding.

None of the people who are Christian are "True" Christians anyways, so there is little point in asking them for an explanation. You may as well ask us athiests, as "True" Christians are hard to come by.

ditto



im glad to see there still exists sanity in the waves of idiocy and delusion

what is this "heaven" and "hell" thing you guys speak of?

Originally posted by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld
what is this "heaven" and "hell" thing you guys speak of?

Quick Jesus dudes jump on this fella, you may convert him and get a Jesus cookie

Originally posted by boymonkey74

Originally posted by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld
what is this "heaven" and "hell" thing you guys speak of?

Quick Jesus dudes jump on this fella, you may convert him and get a Jesus cookie

who is this Jesus dude you speak of?

reply to post by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld

Dunno who but he looks like this
en.wikipedia.org...
Soz dont know how to put a pic in the post

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld

 

Dunno who but he looks like this

en.wikipedia.org...
Soz dont know how to put a pic in the post

lol here he is..



to do it..
you save the picture to your computer..
- go to TOOLS
- ATS uploads
-select image

Non believers will not be sent to hell because there is no hell in Christianity.Or at least not originally.
Hell came about in Christianity because Christians took beliefs of other religions and made them their own and most of what you read about in the Bible came from European Paganism and was put into the Bible during the Christianization of Europe.

Hel-Hell
Valkeries-Angels
An afterlife
Christmas
Easter
The cross
......all from Paganism.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
PFFFFTTTTT!!! SHOW ME THE PROOF (Oh wait there is none)

You trying to ask someone for proof of something is like trying to explain to a dog what Love is like. Could you explain what an orgasm is like "exactly" to someone that has never had one?

People trying to prove something that hasn't even been shown to them yet is impossible. Here is a hint...99.9999% of the people who claim they are Christians aren't getting into heaven either (I am part of this group).

Matthew 10:38-42
38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
40He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
41He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
42And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

Follow doesn't mean "I believe in Christ..." it means to live like Christ. To let go of this world, it's materials, and see the world as Christ did. Most Christians are only good at playing armchair quarterback. They really have no clue what the bible really means, no less are able to teach it to someone else that clearly can't hear it, see it, or experience it. If they are sitting on a computer claiming the word of Christ, then they don't get it. If they are trying to show it to others through modern methods that require trade of money to obtain, then they don't get it. They are clearly not among the living, and only staying in the wilderness. They will continue to live in the wilderness the rest of their existence until they take up their own cross.

Just because one isn't afraid, thinks they understand the bible, or thinks they have a lesson to teach, they clearly don't get it. You need to live like Christ in order to experience Christ. The bible is only a blueprint on how to get there when you can truly hear it. It isn't factual, historical, black and white, it only talks to you when you are ready, and 99% of the Christians aren't ready. Period. They can argue until they are blue in the face that they have accepted Christ so they are in, but in fact they aren't.

The only way to "live" is to let go of the wilderness. Jesus wouldn't have cell phones, computers, nice homes, nice cars, etc... etc... It was nothing of what Christ was about. What he was offering was a way out of the wilderness, and there are very few who have gotten there. Hell is a separation from God. Nothing more, nothing less. Just because one gets on their knees and prays, and talks the good talk, and has convinced themselves they are saved, you have been mistaken. If you were close, you wouldn't be safe at all.

They are not prophets, they are not fishers of men, they are not laborers. They can convince themselves otherwise, but they would be wrong. Until they pick up their cross, even they won't understand what I mean. To fully experience Christ, they have to let go of this world and EVERYTHING in it, then let go of the rest, and be like Christ. Until they can live like a bird and truly experience God providing without any fear, I assure you they are still dead/sleeping/in the wild.

Most want-to-be-Christians will try to convince you Jesus was here, he can be proven. They also think he performed "physical" miracles of curing the sick, the blind, the deaf, the mute, the diseased. They will try to convince you of that because that is the little understanding they know. Christ performed miracles of these things, but it wasn't "physical" cures. They were all spiritual diseases, sicknesses, illnesses. When he raised the dead, he didn't take someone that physically died and raised them back to life...he pulled them out of the wilderness because they were asleep.

There are very few John the Baptists on this planet anymore, and if there are, you and I surely don't know them, nor are they hanging out here on ATS to carry the message to you.

Christians don't like getting their hands dirty, just like talking the talk. It's easy to go and preach to a homeless man about the word of God, only to return home at the end of the day without him. You can't carry something you don't have

Matthew 9:24
He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.

You're still asleep sheep...please don't carry something you clearly don't have.

When you can fly like a bird and NEVER worry about where your next meal is coming from, then you will understand the bible. Sadly, I don't have that kind of faith, so I will never have wings. I live in the bondage of self. So do you

reply to post by Awoken4Ever


Great post and well said, I asked for proof because the guy wrote what he said as a statement of fact, which is not fact because it can't be proved.
I think your post here is the best I have seen from a Christian because you seem to understand the real message (I don't).
Also your right a real Christian wouldn't be on a computer arguing with non believers like me they would be following in Christs footsteps and trying to sort out the crap in the world.
But what do I know Iam non religious person...(Still believe in my God though)
cheers for your input

Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
USA....land of the brainwashed and indoctrinated

Sadly, we are all land of the brainwashed and indoctrinated. Not sure why you would want to separate yourself out from it, but we are all in the same boat.

We all know the Bible is fiction...well, us people that havent been indoctrinated into believing the nonsense written within.

Why must someone speak in absolutes (we all) to voice their opinion? Does it help you validate a false misconception to yourself to boost up your false thinking? I am not part of we. So that would negate your claim immediately.

The believers will explain everything....but they will only explain what is written in the book.

Half right, half wrong. Seems to be the case with you though. I talked about how they explain in post above. However, most can't explain what is really written in the book.

If these people were to really question their religion, by using other texts/books/evidence they may also wonder why it is full of contradictions and things that can be explained by science.

Science is just another false theory that will change tomorrow. The world was once flat, and people put to death for saying otherwise. Our science today, will be nothing of the science tomorrow. We also believed that nothing could go faster then the speed of light, which is coming up false now. If you want something explained to you in "science" you are always going to remain stuck in yesterday. Also, these "things" can clearly be explained by people who have experienced it. They just can't be explained to mortals like you and I sadly. Mainly because we are the "show" me guy. Show me it works first, then I will believe it. You will stay here with the rest of us, and suffer.

Its like me saying i can fly, and then presenting a book i wrote about flying as evidence lol

You can fly...you just can't because you are bound by laws in your head that tell you that you can't. You can also walk through walls, but since you believe that you can't, you never will.

"Everyone came from Adam".....not possible im afraid. From 2 people came 7 billion.....and we arent all backwards with extra limbs through inbreeding.

You don't know what is possible at all. The only thing possible to you is "your" reality, which you are a prisoner to.

You may as well ask us athiests, as "True" Christians are hard to come by.

The only thing we are is damned. Separated from the source. If you could see the magnitude of it, you would see no humor in it. Sadly, you will see the magnitude of it eventually, just like I do. You are living in it now, you just can't see it. It is all around you, everywhere, but we won't stay blind to it for very long. Eventually we will sober up and see the wreckage of last night. I promise you that.

If you are going to be prolific, use a spell checker too. You can look and sound good like me, when neither of us really know what we are talking about

Originally posted by k1k1to
according to many religions...mostly christianity


the way to avoid damnation and eternal punishment in hell....is to accept jesus christ as your lord and savior.

my question is? what about the mayans? the ancient egyptians? the incas? cavemen etc...what about them? how were they to accept jesus christ as their savior when he wasnt even born yet? are they to live in eternal hell for this?

What about them? Not knowing Jesus isn't what gets you the eternal sentance of hell, sin is. Simply knowing about Christ means absolutely nothing. You, along with most of the ATS members know all about the faith, and yet you still reject it. Since every human from the beginning has a conscience, and knew right from wrong, we are without excuse.

how were the natives living in north america supposed to know jesus was born? why was he born in a certain part of the planet, and not the other? that doesnt seem fair..

The whole point of the geneologies in the Bible was to show that Christ was directly related to Abraham, through Jacob, and eventually David. This is why the Jews were the "chosen" people. If the Native Americans were chosen, I am sure the Asians would be complaining. God made the promise to Abraham, and no one else. Take it up with God.

i hate paradoxes

As do I, but I fail to see one here. God created this world, and the rules thereof. He made us to know right from wrong. He says anyone that breaks the rules will spend an eternity in a place He created where He is completely hands off. So if you like love, joy, peace, goodness etc., there will be none of those because they come from God. He provided a way of escape by suffering and dying in our place. If we repent and put our full trust in His sacrifice on our behalf, we can be forgiven. Since God is the judge, He can show both justice and mercy simultaneously. If you choose to represent yourself before God, you will fail. All have sinned and fall short.

reply to post by boymonkey74


I think you have mistaken me for someone else. I am not a Christian. I wish it was differently, but I am not. I have no wings, I will not fly, nor will I see heaven. If that is the case, I can not be called a Christian. I don't have what it takes to let go of my will sadly. It's too difficult, it's too hard, and my will is way to strong. It's not something we can think our way around. You either jump or you don't jump...I can't jump.

Alcoholics call it the "jumping off place." You can't imagine your life with, or without. You're just stuck in the middle. It's worse then hell, or maybe it is hell, either way it's awful. I don't think I will ever be able to let go.

I am too afraid of God, and I am one of those "Ye of little faith..." pretty sure I always will be.

Originally posted by FugitiveSoul
Most Christians don't even realize the word "hell" meant "grave" in ancient greek, so I wouldn't count on them to be able to explain the bible too well as there are scores of other words and themes they don't understand either.

That's very Jehovah's witness of you.

Luke 12: 4-5 Jesus says:

And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

There is obviously a difference between the grave and hell, otherwise the above passage is nonsense.

But, I'm glad you understand the Bible in its entirety, and speak with such authority.

reply to post by kingofmd


LOL...if you could only see what I see

I don't talk with authority at all. I talk with truth. There is a HUGE difference.

There sure is a lot of "fear" surrounding God though. You either get scared into loving him, or scared into not loving him. There is no middle ground, no "mediator."

Besides, I like my own crap. I like to sit right in the middle of it, pull it all around me. It's soft, it's warm, a little stinky, but it feels good.

At the same token, careful what you judge...you don't have a clue what "I see" and if you think you do, then you are judging me.

reply to post by kingofmd


LOL @ thinking that only one set of people will get to hang with the big man. "Take it up with God..." he says. Classic.

It's only about your personal relationship with God/Christ. It isn't about the next guy, or the guy before you. If you are silly to think that Christ only comes in the clothes that is provided for you, then you are missing the boat. He comes in all forms to those that can hear him. To you he is Christ, to others Buddha, to others Mohammed. He has many different names, different faces. It's only about "your" experience with him that one needs to be concerned about. The face you put on him is your reality and how he is talking to you.

You're gonna get a kick out of things when the vale get's pulled off. There is no possible way you are going to tell me that someone like Gandhi is not getting into heaven before you are.

God is not like Santa Clause with a big grey beard, and hangs in the sky on a cloud. Jesus isn't white, or black, or any other face you put on him. Heaven isn't a city you will arrive in. Heaven is a release from the material world, which most of us won't get to.

It's just about a release from Satan's grasp...however he is talking to you is fine, but you can't tell others they are wrong. Dead people just kill dead people that way.

Misconceptions...

reply to post by k1k1to


I remember asking this question when I was child and never did get a real response. You won't either because it can't be answerd and believed unless you have blind faith.

Originally posted by occrest
To say whether anyone goes to heaven or hell is above my pay grade. For me to say one way or another would be to usurp Gods' position, and I heard what happened to the last being that tried that.
It is enough that I work out my own salvation, stay busy and mind my own business.
I mean seriously, how can i deride someone for their mistakes and behaviour when I myself make mistakes and misbehave.

Well said. That is one of the most adult and unentitled posts I have ever read. I wish more people could fathom the thought of thinking this way. I bet we would all get along much better.

reply to post by k1k1to


My understanding is (small that it is) is on judgement day, all will be brought before god. And each will be judged according to they're own actions while on earth.So I'm thinking that to even get there you need to believe in christ, but then once there you will still be judged by what you did while here.Therefore, those that think just because they believed in him they have a free pass into heaven , will be in for a rude awakening when they find out they will still have to pay for those things they did wrong while here and believing in him.And anyone that didn't hear about him will be excused and let in to still be judged over what life they lived.The only ones that won't get in to begin with, are those that knew about him,rejected him and died.If someone has a better understanding please input.

Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by k1k1to
the way to avoid damnation and eternal punishment in hell....is to accept jesus christ as your lord and savior.

my question is? what about the mayans? the ancient egyptians? the incas? cavemen etc...what about them? how were they to accept jesus christ as their savior when he wasnt even born yet? are they to live in eternal hell for this?

i hate paradoxes

ROTFLOL!! Oh you people crack me up, you don't believe a word of the Bible but then you insist that there are paradoxes that you can only "prove" by assuming the Bible is factual

The irony! Even assuming the Bible is 100% accurate there is in fact no paradox here because nowhere in the Bible does it state that you are condemned upon death. This is an assumption that many people make and many others teach in churches, but it has no scriptural basis. It's an interpretation, and probably an incorrect interpretation. Ask yourself this, if God is pure and perfect (which by definition He must be because otherwise He wouldn't be God), would such a paradox even be possible? Of course not. Condemning people who have never heard of Christ for not accepting Him as their savior would be neither fair nor just. But God is fair and just by definition, and He will not condemn anyone until after they know the truth about who He is, and in many cases that may not be until after their death. The thief on the cross learned the truth moments before his death and was forgiven, the clear message from that example is salvation is outside of our acts on earth.

edit on 28-12-2011 by SavedOne because: (no reason given)

You clearly never read the bible because it is in there, althroughout the old testament and the new, even spoken by the prophets themselves, even spoken of by Paul as confirmation of the prophets. It is also in the book of Revelation when Jesus tells the 7 churches to return to their first love or he will "remove their candlestick" (this from Apostle John), not to mention the while spiel in Revelation where Jesus sends the goats on the left into the fire and the sheep on the right get their reward, and in the book of Acts Paul reiterates that you should not let someone cause you to stumble and lose your faith where you end up not being allowed to enter into the Lord's Rest.

Yeah dude you really need to go reread the bible and take a closer look because it is there.