Are the stories of 911 "jumpers" true?

Originally posted by Helmkat
reply to post by septic

 

Funny as I don't see anything glittering in my post at all. I made a comparison between people who deny the Holocaust and people who denying the Jumpers, I find it a very accurate comparison. Skepticism is one thing, denial is another. One is healthy, the other not.

Other than the similarities in the use of propaganda to horrify populations, the comparisons are not related, and the holocaust is regularly used as a "slide", a brainwashing term which refers to words and phrases that when heard stop rational thought.

Are you serious?!

reply to post by septic


Some videos might be fake but there were jumpers, but I dont see it as suicide. Would you rather...

(A) Burn to death

(B) Go out quick

Originally posted by NorEaster

Originally posted by caladonea
I believe that the stories of approximately 200 people jumping to their deaths is true. When 9/11 happened...I was at home...and I remember seeing footage of those people jumping....and there was a lot of them. My question is where is that footage now?

There are some clips within this video short.Just a few, but they're not photoshopped.

Soulful, haunting music, and statements of "facts" like the official "19", and then it claims "The attack on the World Trade Center was one of the most observed catastrophes in history".

Right off the bat it's obvious the intent of this movie is emotional impact. Furthermore, the LACK of clear photographic evidence stands in stark relief to the claim that it was a "most observed" catastrophe. Had it been most observed, they would not need to rely on faked images and video. The jet impact shot is provided by Luc Courchesne. Luc's footage was included in the Naudet film and has since been proved fraudulent, as shown here.


The film inevitably mentions the Naudet film "911" which is debunked by Leslie Raphael here

And no jumper film would be complete without the awning and bloody pavement which was addressed here.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by septic

 

Some videos might be fake but there were jumpers, but I dont see it as suicide. Would you rather...

(A) Burn to death

(B) Go out quick

I'd die trying to find a way to live, not trying to die.

Now, do the faked images support the truth of the jumper story, or do the faked images indicate a concerted effort to manage the perceptions of people to the point where they would become vehemently angered by someone questioning the veracity of the claim?

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Originally posted by septic

Originally posted by Helmkat
reply to post by septic

 

Funny as I don't see anything glittering in my post at all. I made a comparison between people who deny the Holocaust and people who denying the Jumpers, I find it a very accurate comparison. Skepticism is one thing, denial is another. One is healthy, the other not.

Other than the similarities in the use of propaganda to horrify populations, the comparisons are not related, and the holocaust is regularly used as a "slide", a brainwashing term which refers to words and phrases that when heard stop rational thought.

The comparisons are spot on. Two horrific events that are sometimes denied despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. A slide would imply that I am trying to derail the thread, clearly I am not as rational thought continues except by those that were already in denial.

Originally posted by Helmkat

Originally posted by septic

Originally posted by Helmkat
reply to post by septic

 

Funny as I don't see anything glittering in my post at all. I made a comparison between people who deny the Holocaust and people who denying the Jumpers, I find it a very accurate comparison. Skepticism is one thing, denial is another. One is healthy, the other not.

Other than the similarities in the use of propaganda to horrify populations, the comparisons are not related, and the holocaust is regularly used as a "slide", a brainwashing term which refers to words and phrases that when heard stop rational thought.

The comparisons are spot on. Two horrific events that are sometimes denied despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. A slide would imply that I am trying to derail the thread, clearly I am not as rational thought continues except by those that were already in denial.

So you're saying the Holocaust is just as fraudulent as the jumpers? Interesting.

Originally posted by septic

The film inevitably mentions the Naudet film "911" which is debunked by Leslie Raphael here

I can only laugh at that delusional logic of that "debunking". It's utterly ridiculous and makes it clear how your and such "debunkers" minds obviously work

- First, you are saying the whole event must be faked and "there was no planes"...since only ONE video was shot showing the impact of plane #1

- THEN you go and make up some pseudo theory trying to prove that the ONE footage must obviously be fake since its "way too coincidental" that the one filming actually got the plane on camera.

* What you don't realize that you are contradicting yourself - because we can safely assume that (given there is really only THAT ONE footage of plane #1)...there is no other way than that it would appear as "extremely coincidental". (Since we only have that one footage, DOH).

This is the same absurd logic as trying to debunk that someone won the lottery.

Go let's make a website and claim that the last person who won the lottery is part of a HUUUUGE set-up.

Because (as is the case on that site where you THINK that he "debunked" the footage)...i could probably give you 69 (or 300, or 900) SOLID REASONS and show you exactly how incredible mathematical and statistical UNLIKELY it is that Ms. Smith from Phoenix just won $5M in the lottery.

Not only that, i can even "prove" this with real math that it's simply extremely unlikely that Ms. Smith won the lottery - and that THE WHOLE STORY IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE. (Because, you know, odds of 1:69Million against winning the lottery can simply not being ignored!)

And the guy on that site who THINKS he is "debunking" does exactly the same thing, in one of his chapters he lists 69 reasons why the footage is "unlikely" ..and calls it debunking.

A) "There is no footage of showing plane impact" ---> Pseudo proof that conspiracy theory must be right
B) "Oh wait, there is actually footage, but how big are the odds?" ---> Pseudo proof that conspiracy theory must be right!
C) Plus ignoring all other factors like eye witnesses, other footage, new reports, plane #2 footage
D) The perfect mental delusion.


Also..i want to "thank you" because by linking to this site...you not only prove that you believe in the absurd "jumpers were not real" theory - but ALSO in the "planes were not real" theory...which both are about at the same level of lowest ignorance/stupidity...even measured on a 9/11 conspiracy scale. All you do is make your fellows look like total idiots.

Dude, we get that you think certain documentaries were propaganda but that's no reason to think the ENTIRE event was staged. Your paranoid. Don't turn out like Loughner

Originally posted by septic

Originally posted by Drezden
I'm sure many people have already stated what I'm about to state.. but I'm too angry to read multiple pages. I believe 9/11 was an inside job, but people jumping was not faked. There are plenty of clear videos of people jumping, and videos of their "bodies" on the ground, live interview of people who are witnessing it as well.

Why would people jump.. well imagine being placed in a pot of boiling water and add in some toxic smoke. Do you want to die slowly from smoke and fire, or do you want to jump through the clean air and die instantly..

I want to live, no matter what.

The jumper claim strikes an emotional chord, as stated in the OP. Your outrage only further supports my premise, as does your lack of proof.

If I am mistaken, please post any one of your clear videos.

edit on 26-12-2011 by septic because: (no reason given)

No you silly goose, my outrage isn't because of the idea of people jumping out of buildings, my outrage is at the fact that there is so much proof it happend, (and videos already listed in this thread multiple times), yet you are calling it fake.

Watch this entire documentary.



And if you're too lazy to watch the entire documentary then watch the last 30 seconds of this video:

Originally posted by septic
reply to post by d00d557

 

Here's a shot of the canopy holes, but yes I've seen all the shots of the roast beef and other slices of meat spread throughout the street, and wonder if anyone can identify a human body part in those shots? If you were a propagandist tasked with fabricating an horrific scene, how would you do it without using real bodies?

I believe all the available images have been addressed here and here and here and here

edit on 27-12-2011 by septic because: (no reason given)

Your repsonse here is disgusting. Your speculations have gone way beyond the bounds of decency and discretion.

None of us have to prove that the images you've presented aren't faked; the burden is on you to prove that they are fake and so far you haven't done that.

Now you want to claim that someone planted raw meat in the streets around the towers to stage the horrific scene? You're sick man... get some help.

Originally posted by Ray1850
Its a shame you werent among the jumpers

Thanks for your kind response, care to comment on the topic or are you content with hoping for my death?

Originally posted by Blarneystoner
Your repsonse here is disgusting. Your speculations have gone way beyond the bounds of decency and discretion.

None of us have to prove that the images you've presented aren't faked; the burden is on you to prove that they are fake and so far you haven't done that.

Now you want to claim that someone planted raw meat in the streets around the towers to stage the horrific scene? You're sick man... get some help.

Ding ding ding!

I wouldn't be surprised if he already got "some help" though: in the form of sock puppets starring his OP and praising his efforts and describing his theory as acceptable and even plausible.

The forum he dwells at is known for claiming absolutely everything is fake, preferably 9/11 victims. It helps to rile people up. The objective seems to be to inflame and outrage, 4chan style. Whether that is for the perverse gratification of the demented gaggle circling Phil Jayhan or for some other purpose, one can only speculate.

reply to post by Blarneystoner

Your repsonse here is disgusting. Your speculations have gone way beyond the bounds of decency and discretion.

Everyone needs to calm down for a moment...do I understand you believe I am wrong for even investigating the jumper claims?

Or am a wrong for posting the video of another which expose the fraud behind the claims?

If you haven't read the OP, please do...this whole thread is like a demonstration of the big lie in action. Even when presented with the truth, people will reject it.

reply to post by snowcrash911


Well if the objective is to enflame and outrage, then mission accomplished. I'm certainly pissed off....

Hiding behind the pseudo-anonymity of the internet makes some people pretty bold but I highly doubt that Septic would have the eggs to make these claims in front of a group of 911 victims and their families. He would be beaten to a bloody pulp....

Originally posted by mr10k
Dude, we get that you think certain documentaries were propaganda but that's no reason to think the ENTIRE event was staged. Your paranoid. Don't turn out like Loughner

edit on 27-12-2011 by mr10k because: (no reason given)

If the film that is most often used as proof by truther and OSer, namely the Naudet "documentary" entitled "911", is proved to be a propaganda piece filled with staged sequences, the whole story should be suspect, yes. You appear to believe this part of the story deserves to not be investigated, in spite of the evidence of fraud here too. Fine, so don't investigate it.

Originally posted by Blarneystoner
reply to post by snowcrash911

 

Well if the objective is to enflame and outrage, then mission accomplished. I'm certainly pissed off....

Hiding behind the pseudo-anonymity of the internet makes some people pretty bold but I highly doubt that Septic would have the eggs to make these claims in front of a group of 911 victims and their families. He would be beaten to a bloody pulp....

Please answer the question.

Am I wrong for even looking at the clear fraud in the images used to create your anger.

You're not the first to wish me physical harm, so pardon me if I'm straining politeness here but answer the question.

Am I wrong for noticing the fraud?