Are the stories of 911 "jumpers" true?

I woke up just after the 1st plane hit, I was watching live when the 2nd plane hit, live, not a re-broadcast,

Same here. I heard about it from a co-worker right when the first plane hit. He heard it on the radio. I asked him if it was a private plane or a jet, and he said a jet. I told him then that we're under attack. He was an ex-Israeli military officer, and we often talked about such things. I remember that years ago, a guy was stopped trying to do the same thing (crash a jet into a building), so I thought it was likely terrorism...but was still open to it just being an accident.

We rigged up a TV (that we usually use for training videos), just in time to see the second plane hit live. At first, we thought it was a replay, but then I said, "Then how did the camera know to be on it, and there's already smoke!". We knew it was a second hit. I turned to him and said, "Well, I think we just witnessed history...the start of World War III." He only nodded solemnly, as we all were fixed to the radio and TV for the rest of the day, listening to the confused reports of downed planes, etc.

Originally posted by septic
Originally posted by goldcrow

 

I never witnessed any of these things, but don't doubt some of the simple facts that are out there.

Now who's drinking the Koolaid?

Tell me, if Life Magazine ran a cover story featuring an image that turned out to be fraudulent, and it turned out every other mainstream outlet did the same, doesn't that indicate a concerted effort at perception management?
Honestly, I've never seen such a sorry display of shooting the messenger. If I am mistaken and the images are not fraudulent, surely someone can show me?

You, not Life Magazine are running the dog and pony show here. And like you said from your own mouth, "surely no one can show me"? You just eat this up don't you? Tomorrow, you'll start a thread that claims every New Yorker was paid 10,000 dollars to lie about 911. That if you go there the twin towers are still standing and they all laughing in their sleeves on the way to the bank.

And we only shoot messengers that bring us lies.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Your signature says it all, but you can shove the truth up the butt of some people (who choose to believe as our enemies do that we are all evil!) and they still won't believe it! They have minds like children! Case in point:
Those that STILL think we didn't go to the moon, I think it was Armstrong that said "if we were going to fake a moon trip why would we do it numerous times? Only one trip would be sufficient!"
So those who believe 9-11 was an 'inside job' they must have really been a big group getting all the traffic controllers watching the aircraft from takeoff to crashing to go along with it!
I was in the Air Force and during training I took a 6-week course in firefighting (mainly aircraft but building as well) and some of the videos we were shown (real videos) show people will 'zone out' and jump when facing a fire! One video showed a man crawling out onto a ledge (the room wasn't engulfed yet but his inside escape was) the crash crew was moving a ladder into position and was telling him to remain calm and still but he wasn't listening he stood there for a few minutes then just dove off when rescue was just minutes away! Luckily a compressor building broke his fall and he was in a coma for 6-months but fully recovered. He doesn't even remember seeing the rescuers he just thought about the flames and what he thought would be a quicker death!
Being involved in the firefighting end for a long time I learned most people die from smoke inhalation long before the flames reach them, that is why you didn't see more jumpers at 9-11.
let's just stop this nonsense about faking deaths, there is no reason someone would have to... just imagining all these people that died in the towers, isn't that enough?

For what it's worth... An ex-employee of mine was at GZ on 9/11 before and during the attacks. He was a part of a team of men that set up a forward triage inside of building 4 after the first tower was hit. He described to me the noises of people hitting the ground while he was running from the building. One thing that forever stuck with me is how he described the people that jumped, after they hit the ground; he said when he turned around to look for the source of the hollow thud's his mind only allowed him to see "black garbage bags" on the ground. It had been an apparent attempt to preserve his sanity, his mind was not allowing him to see what the black garbage bags really were. There were definitely jumpers - mothers fathers sons daughters, even groups holding hands as they decided a less painful demise.

I don't think it's good to speculate on EVERYTHING that you might think is flawed with the 9/11 story, because it defeats the purpose.

What should be brought up is the "cover up" and lack of real evidence of ties to al qaeda. I also think the buildings were "rigged" to make sure they would come down.

But speculating that jumpers didn't jump, or that the planes were remote controlled -- it might be true, but how can you prove ANY OF IT? It's pointless -- you just lose credibility.

I couldn't tell if those "cut and paste jobs" were really that, because the vertical lines of a building are not moving, and are less likely to artifact than a falling person, who is going to be irregularly shaped, moving, and have a non-rectangular and blurry outline. That's the problem with low-rez internet photos.

So, even though I'm a MIHOP or LIHOP kind of person -- I think it's a waste of time to debate these "low information" conspiracies -- best to get together GOOD EVIDENCE before making such a claim -- which I don't think was done here.

reply to post by something wicked

Or is material that could be judged as offensive and/or upsetting being removed, quite within the Ts and Cs of the site? Do you like to watch people die? Not everyone does.

Then don't watch it. Not for everyone like you said. Adopt the system, If you don't like it change the channel. Not limit others to what you think is "decent".

Video is "evidence" nothing more. Stay out the kitchen if you can't take the heat. I will always give fair and clear warning to anything I post so some won't be offended. They should link it to a special category, not delete it. By deleting it they deprive others of the truth who aren't so sensitive. For Mature Audiences Only.

Originally posted by Gazrok

I woke up just after the 1st plane hit, I was watching live when the 2nd plane hit, live, not a re-broadcast,

Same here. I heard about it from a co-worker right when the first plane hit. He heard it on the radio. I asked him if it was a private plane or a jet, and he said a jet. I told him then that we're under attack. He was an ex-Israeli military officer, and we often talked about such things. I remember that years ago, a guy was stopped trying to do the same thing (crash a jet into a building), so I thought it was likely terrorism...but was still open to it just being an accident.

We rigged up a TV (that we usually use for training videos), just in time to see the second plane hit live. At first, we thought it was a replay, but then I said, "Then how did the camera know to be on it, and there's already smoke!". We knew it was a second hit. I turned to him and said, "Well, I think we just witnessed history...the start of World War III." He only nodded solemnly, as we all were fixed to the radio and TV for the rest of the day, listening to the confused reports of downed planes, etc.

WW3? A little far fetched if you ask me.

I don't understand Septic's belief that people did not jump. Why wouldn't they? They were up inside a building that had a fire that was burning at an extremely high temperature with no escape. They had no other option but to jump. Where is your logic?

BTW Septic, here is your video.

Jumper

The fact that SOME 9/11 Conspiracy theories are nuts, wrong, flimsy or just plane stupid does not mean that there was NOT a Government or other conspiracy going on during 9/11.

All you need is to hire someone in a pink tutu to show up and claim to be part of any group, and then you say; "Wow, this group is really nuts."

Let's not lump in EVERY conspiracy with 9/11, or try to say because some people thought we faked the moon landing -- that's like EVERY conspiracy theory. The idea that nobody CONSPIRES is also ridiculous, goes against history, and makes those $250,000 per year fees at country clubs seem a waste of money if all you wanted was golf and a buffet.

EVERYTHING IS NOT EQUIVALENT: So some theories of 9/11 make more sense than others - and some people proposing them are smart or easily led (to be kind). Just as there were plenty of government people caught lying, while some were obviously telling the truth. Just because you catch someone in government lying -- all that might tell you is it's Tuesday, and you were talking to someone in government.



>> Meanwhile, BushCo lied about everything else and took us into two wars based on bogus reasons and wasted Trillions of Dollars through mismanagement, outright graft, and paying 10 times as much to push Mercenary armies on us with absolutely no oversight.

What we have is a bunch of War Criminals who should be in front of a firing squad, and we are quibbling about this other nasty deed that MIGHT or MIGHT NOT have been their responsibility. Dick Cheney and George should be tried for treason one, twice, or three times - but let's not let them off the hook because we think that some photos were faked.

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
The fact that SOME 9/11 Conspiracy theories are nuts, wrong, flimsy or just plane stupid does not mean that there was NOT a Government or other conspiracy going on during 9/11.

All you need is to hire someone in a pink tutu to show up and claim to be part of any group, and then you say; "Wow, this group is really nuts."

Let's not lump in EVERY conspiracy with 9/11, or try to say because some people thought we faked the moon landing -- that's like EVERY conspiracy theory. The idea that nobody CONSPIRES is also ridiculous, goes against history, and makes those $250,000 per year fees at country clubs seem a waste of money if all you wanted was golf and a buffet.

EVERYTHING IS NOT EQUIVALENT: So some theories of 9/11 make more sense than others - and some people proposing them are smart or easily led (to be kind). Just as there were plenty of government people caught lying, while some were obviously telling the truth. Just because you catch someone in government lying -- all that might tell you is it's Tuesday, and you were talking to someone in government.



>> Meanwhile, BushCo lied about everything else and took us into two wars based on bogus reasons and wasted Trillions of Dollars through mismanagement, outright graft, and paying 10 times as much to push Mercenary armies on us with absolutely no oversight.

What we have is a bunch of War Criminals who should be in front of a firing squad, and we are quibbling about this other nasty deed that MIGHT or MIGHT NOT have been their responsibility. Dick Cheney and George should be tried for treason one, twice, or three times - but let's not let them off the hook because we think that some photos were faked.

Nope. All 9/11 Truther theories hold absolutely no water. ATS is site for people who speculate, not infer. It's a cesspool of ignorance. Theories like these only hurt an investigation as to why things went wrong that day.

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst

I don't think it's good to speculate on EVERYTHING that you might think is flawed with the 9/11 story, because it defeats the purpose.

What should be brought up is the "cover up" and lack of real evidence of ties to al qaeda. I also think the buildings were "rigged" to make sure they would come down.

Great, then as a conspirator with generations of experience in perception management behind me, almost unlimited financial resources and with most of the worlds' media at my disposal, the best place for me to hide would be amongst the victims.

Originally posted by caladonea
I believe that the stories of approximately 200 people jumping to their deaths is true. When 9/11 happened...I was at home...and I remember seeing footage of those people jumping....and there was a lot of them. My question is where is that footage now?

There are some clips within this video short.Just a few, but they're not photoshopped.

reply to post by SGTSECRET


The problem being, the only pixelated part of the image is the man. The background is still smooth, and pixel less so I understand what she is trying to say. I agree with the earlier poster. I watched the coverage on 911, I watched endless hours of footage online over the last 10 years, I watched the replay on 911. I only saw one or two jumpers in the footage from TV. Not the 100s that have surfaced in recent years. I'm sure we are going to find stories of pregnant women days from delivery who came to visit hubby in the office or something else messed up like that who burned alive with her husband and freshly born child in her arms. It's sick ! It's getting more upsetting seeing the tabloid style " Discoveries " around 911.

reply to post by Mully

WW3? A little far fetched if you ask me.

Well, at the time, it didn't seem much of a leap.
A simple assassination is often heralded as the start of WW2.

So, such a high-profile terrorist act certainly had the clout potential of being such a kick off event. And, if you consider the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to be the brushfire conflicts before the storm....

I love when people say what they would do in this kind of situation, like they would be completely level headed and calm, and not in a state of utter panic and confusion. inside job or not, people were killed, many, many ended their own lives either in a state of complete confusion and fear, or as a means of having some kind of control as to how their lives would end, either slow and painful, or in a split second.

And has anyone really seen anyone fall to their death from a great height? there isn't really a whole lot of animation, not like people would think. I jump out of airplanes all the time, and for a few seconds, i still lock up in the beginning. Many people do. For someone who has NEVER experienced the sensation of falling, freezing up isn't uncommon. I watched as a girl fell to her death from 1200 ft at Fort Benning GA in 2005 at airborne school. She remained almost in the same position with little movement the whole way down.

Besides, i remember watching live, (and you can still find compilation videos of the same) and depending on which channel you were watching and which cameraman was filming etc, personally, I saw several jumpers, some of them hitting the ground.

Personal views on 9/11, I don't know, The jumpers, if some photo's are faked for dramatic purposes, so be it, But many people did jump.

reply to post by Gazrok


WW1 u mean?

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst


So in your infinite wisdom, which are the "correct" hypotheses?

reply to post by NorEaster


Thanks for your post, bear with me for the reply, I have yet to watch your video.

I remember watching network coverage and they mentioned they were asked not to keep showing the aircraft crashing, the buildings falling and the jumpers as it was just making it worse on family that had missing loved ones.
That is why you didn't see much on the 2nd and following days.
Another thing I was told in training is it was okay to show some of the very graphic pictures in training films but not for general public use. (case in point, the MGM Grand fire, we were shown photos of people that had tried to protect themselves (one that still haunts me is a young girl lying by the door where she had stuck wet towels under the door to keep out smoke but died anyway.
The point is, there are a lot the rescuers see (and film) that remain hidden from the public because of the graphic nature and respect for their families.
Please close this useless thread!

reply to post by septic


Funny as I don't see anything glittering in my post at all. I made a comparison between people who deny the Holocaust and people who are denying the Jumpers, I find it a very accurate comparison. Skepticism is one thing, denial is another. One is healthy, the other not.