Stop teaching about the holocaust so that children see Germany in a better light, says Lord Baker

Enough of the holocaust & a lot of the history taught in UK schools (because I don't know what's taught in other countries). Most if not all is very structured & biased leaving out critical/crucial details that were essential to the said event. (Any historical event.)
In the UK for example the children who form inner city schools particularly, are from many different ethnic backgrounds. A lot of them weren't born in the UK & know some history from their previous schooling in their respective countries. It does contradict what's taught in a UK classroom from time to time.
In the UK at least we do need to revise what we teach to our children.

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

you are not seeing the forest because you're focused on the trees. one can counter your argument by saying that NOT teaching about the genocide of the Armenians by the Turks, led to the holocaust
the Rwandan_Genocide [ a holocaust is a burnt sacrifice, your slapdash use of the word has a watering down effect] were the work of the government with the assistance and aiding and abetting of colonialists, note how no mention of intelligence agencies [other than a visit for observation purposes by US "special" forces] is made.

An interesting way to shoe-horn the Armenian Holocaust at a time when the Jewish lobby in France have got the Sarkosy government to pass laws ending free speech on this matter.

The Turkish Empire was ironically run by Jewish viziers. A vizier is a minister of state or counsellor to the Sultan and many of them were from the Spannish Jewish community (Sephardi Jews) given santuary several hundred years earlier from Christian pogroms and inquisitions. It was for this reason that these Jewish visiers wanted to exact revenge from the Armenian Christians.

This dynamic happened once more in the Ukraine Holodomor when upto 10 million Ukrainian people died from forced marches and starvation. The individuals that conducted these exterminations were Bolshevik Jews from the NKVD, Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich and several dozen others named by the current Ukrainian government.

The Ukrainian government asked Israel to recognise the Holodomor as a holocaust and it was refused;



There is no copyright on the word holocaust and it is a useful synonym for genocide. How can you say that using that word to decribe the Rwandan killings is "watering it down". That is down right racist! A Rwandan's life is as valuable as any other human being even Jews.

Unfortunately you can't see the wood from the trees.

How will humanity ever learn from it's mistakes and ever hope to rise above just horrific events if we're never told about them?

The way this is going, in 50 years time there will have been no WW2 and the enemy certainly wouldn't be Germany (Read 1984)
All this at a time when the Eurozone is failing and Germany and Britain are seeking closer ties... Wake up people

Is that their new excuse now, not to see Germany in a bad light ??

I thought they stopped teaching the Holocaust because they didn't want to piss off the Muslims.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Either way, It's fundamentally wrong in so many levels.

I've never heard of any UK kids seeing Germans in a bad light. Maybe only that they pinch the sunbeds first at a holiday resort, (or so I've heard).

There should be an age that kids need to have some stuff censored, I suppose. Not sure what though.

My daughter recently did a space project. They were taught the first dog in space, Laika, came home happy and smiling after her trip, probbably had a load of cute puppies and they all lived happily ever after. Silly me, I had to educate her that the dog died up there from the capsule burning up because I was annoyed at her being taught a false story. She wasn't upset, so she's either strong or her hard shell is starting to grow and she doesn't give a sh@t already.

Does any of it matter really? We tell kids to talk problems through when they have a fall out. Be polite, shake hands, never hit or seek revenge. But then tptb do the opposite and burn and maim innocents on our daily news.

Kids/people will be traumatised whatever they're taught. How many on ATS sweated and cried into the night from the world's injustices when they were kids? I saw a baby polar bear get it's head smashed in for it's fur when I was 12 and I never got over it. But I don't hate arctic explorers. I suppose the gentler we put it to them the better, maybe? Or we should teach them the German holocaust is just the tip off the iceberg?

Originally posted by gravitational
Is that their new excuse now, not to see Germany in a bad light ??

I thought they stopped teaching the Holocaust because they didn't want to piss off the Muslims.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Either way, It's fundamentally wrong in so many levels.

Why should teaching the holocaust annoy Muslims? It was Nazi Germany that exterminated Jews, gypsies, communists, opponents of Hitler, the disabled.

Why drag muslims into the debate?

Lord baker is an idiot! The Holocaust does not demonise Germans. It demonised Nazis and rightly so. There are still people who have survived the nazis and are still traumatised. Just because he knows nothing or had no connection he decided to abuse his position by spouting garbage!

The more you study the holocaust it is clear that the real threat will always be tyranny, despotism and mob rule.
I detest Nazis and respect germans for their work ethic and their pioeering technical schools that were the envy of the west. Life is far too complex for Lord Baker's tiny intellect.

[off topic image removed]


loooved the thinly veiled jew hate but hey now we all know what your stake in all this is

Yes,yes, yes let's simply sweep it all under the rug and forget about it, as you propose, then when everybody keeps tripping over the crap pile under the rug you can say:

"i dunno"
"wasn't me"
"faggedabouditt, just get over it. [smirk]"

reply to post by wigit


Well it was standard far in the 1960s + 70s for kids to ask Germans who won the war? German bashingb wa gthe vogue up to the mid 70s I would say then there is the Monty Python Sketch.....

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


I think it is racist to dismiss the Rwandan Holocaust because it "waters down" the Jewish Holocaust. You are so full of hate to the Rwandan people you are not even aware of it.

The bottom line is that there have been holocausts before and after the Jewish Holocaust. No Holocaust education programme ever stopped a holocaust. The irony is that until the Jewish holocaust, Jews were active in perping other holocausts!

reply to post by Helixer


i told you, the overuse of the word holocaust waters it down, soon you'll be using it to label a drive by shooting where 3 people are killed.
please point out where i belittled the tragedy of the rwandan genocide, good luck with that "lord" baker of her majesty's secret troll service

i am of multi etnic origin with the blood of africa, europe and W asia, that in includes hebrew, and north african moors, something you'd know if you go over my profile, posts, and threads, as i've done in your case .

ATS Points: -1,560

please take a little time to feel stupid

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by Helixer

 

i told you, the overuse of the word holocaust waters it down, soon you'll be using it to label a drive by shooting where 3 people are killed.
please point out where i belittled the tragedy of the rwandan genocide, good luck with that "lord" baker of her majesty's secret troll service

i am of multi etnic origin with the blood of africa, europe and W asia, that in includes hebrew, and north african moors, something you'd know if you go over my profile, posts, and threads, as i've done in your case .

ATS Points: -1,560

please take a little time to feel stupid

You honestly can't take a debate about the Holocaust. You will dismiss the Rwandan Holocaust by saying that it "watersdown" the Jewish Holocaust. You get vicerally abusive and I have been perfectly reasonable with you.

We are having an important discussion about why we should give Holocaust education to you kids when it traumatises young children and it does not stop holocausts. I pointed out that even the victims of the Holocaust, Jews, are some of the biggest holocaust and ethnic cleansing perps.

I say it is better to teach children ethics and morality, an awareness of injustice, critical thinking and knowledge of the universality of human suffering.

There is nothing "stupid" about these serious and important issues.

Originally posted by Helixer

Actually Holocaust education has not prevented another Holocaust from happening. The Rwanda genocide was horrible; neighbour turned against neighbour and they killed people with stones, machetes and fire. A couple of millions were killed in weeks!

I was not aware that holocaust education was taught in Rwanda. Do you have any specifics on what they teach in Rwanda?

To others on this post - Sorry, I realize this is about education in the UK, so I'm not trying to go off topic but I'm personally interested in this individuals knowledge of the education curriculum in Rwanda.

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by Helixer

Actually Holocaust education has not prevented another Holocaust from happening. The Rwanda genocide was horrible; neighbour turned against neighbour and they killed people with stones, machetes and fire. A couple of millions were killed in weeks!

I was not aware that holocaust education was taught in Rwanda. Do you have any specifics on what they teach in Rwanda?

To others on this post - Sorry, I realize this is about education in the UK, so I'm not trying to go off topic but I'm personally interested in this individuals knowledge of the education curriculum in Rwanda.

You carried on reading some more comments, you will see that the world new the Rwandan holocaust was about to kick off.

KIGALI, Rwanda (Reuters) -- Former U.S. President Bill Clinton, visiting a Rwandan genocide memorial on Saturday, expressed regret for his "personal failure" to prevent the 1994 slaughter of 800,000 people.

Pulitzer award winning Samantha Power from her book "A Problem from Hell" : America and the Age of Genocide "

"Clark frantically telephoned around the Pentagon for insight into the ethnic dimension of events in Rwanda. Unfortunately, Rwanda had never been of more than marginal concern to Washington's most influential planners" (p. 330) .

www.democraticunderground.com...

It was also known that the French security services were all over Kigali egging on the francophone Hutu to butcher the anglophone Tutsi. The Rwandan Holocaust was planned over AM radio! The whole world was asking the big powers to save the Rwandans but they did nothing.

Rwanda is a poor country and most children do not get elementary education let alone Holocaust education, however, the elite are French educated and very familiar with the Holocaust.

What is more important is to abandon Holocaust education because it excludes the suffering of other peoples. Instead, the whole world should be taught to identify injustice, the universality of suffering, ethics and morality and a cognative framework to implement these humane ideas and traits.

The holocaust is a big lie. I used to think "deniers" were crazy until I did the research and things didn't add up. Yes there were camps, Yes I'm sure it sucked, Jews were not sent to these camps and gassed with Zyclon B. The zyclon b was used to delouse clothes.

This is the only event in history that you are not allowed to investigate. Sure you can "investigate" but if you come out with any other story than the official story you get called a racist.

Watch David Coles (a jew) documentary on Auchwitz and see for yourself.

The holocaust is a tool used for political reasons and to justify atrocities that Israel commits. Very genius if you ask me.

Originally posted by Helixer


You carried on reading some more comments, you will see that the world new the Rwandan holocaust was about to kick off.

edit on 26-12-2011 by Helixer because: sp

So what, others in the world were educated. This did not happen to OTHERS in the world, it happened in Rwanda.

I'm asking about those in Rwanda. You say education failed to prevent this.....WELL....What was their education on this??

(or are you going to PROVE the fact about history repeating itself to those who ignore it)

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by Helixer


You carried on reading some more comments, you will see that the world new the Rwandan holocaust was about to kick off.

edit on 26-12-2011 by Helixer because: sp

So what, others in the world were educated. This did not happen to OTHERS in the world, it happened in Rwanda.

I'm asking about those in Rwanda. You say education failed to prevent this.....WELL....What was their education on this??

(or are you going to PROVE the fact about history repeating itself to those who ignore it)

I don't get your logic.

It was not Rwandan children that committed the Rwandan Holocaust but Rwandan elite who were French educated and taught about the holocaust yet they killed their on compatriots en-mass. Even more, the big powers did not lift a finger to save life.

reply to post by buster2010

agreed. germans are looked at negatively for something that almost no one today had anything to do with. same with slavery of african americans, but still white people are always the bad guy because 'we' somehow did it.

reply to post by SGTSECRET


Wrong there are still racists whites running around spouting filth. Stop trying to justify racism.. I only mentioned whites because you did I do know a few racist blacks!

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by SGTSECRET

 

Wrong there are still racists whites running around spouting filth. Stop trying to justify racism.. I only mentioned whites because you did I do know a few racist blacks!

who said anything about being racist? i never said anything about not liking any race, i stated the fact that white people today are still blamed for slavery of african americans, even though those of us alive today had absolutely nothing to do with it. and it relates to this post because it was talking about how children being taught about the holocaust were given a negative view of germans for something that happend so long ago.