Two Four Star Generals write New York Times demanding Obama Veto the NDAA

The difference is these guys are retired. You think an active duty General is going to stand up? He'd get demoted and lose his fat government pension. They might stand against Obama if anything goes down, but not before then.

reply to post by AwakeinNM


Exactly right. The military hierarchy once you've made rank is a ruthless battle to the top
where all means are employed to achieve promotion over your competitors. Right down
to the smallest details of a perfectly manicured lawn, a perfectly dressed wife, disciplined children,
imbibing the "right" amount of alcohol at parties, and not "under" or "over" doing Christmas
decorations.

Given that these men of rank will go to such great length to improve their income and status
at the expense of their peers, and knowing a little about human nature, I concur with you that
having actual enlisted officers break rank is highly unlikely. To expect something different
is a failure of empathy. We are talking about men who will go so far as to tell their wives to ONLY
put laundry out on the line while the General's wife is putting laundry out on the line, so as not
to be conspicuous. To expect these men to face a court martial for insubordination and
treason is ridiculous.

Originally posted by marg6043
I find very interesting how this bill has been allowed to pass both house and senate during this time of the year when most American's mind are into the stupor and frenzy of the holiday season to even take the time to sit and actually understand what our corrupted government is trying to do, when a government find ways to concoct bills like the NDAA and force then into their own citizens is time for all of us Americans to star thinking if this is the type of nation that we want our children to grow up and if our dirty politicians are even worth to hold the power they have in their hands that is affecting every aspect of our nations democratic due process.

States knows that they have the power to accept or not federal bills, but as the federal government they are just as corrupted, so do not expect any state to side with the people either on this one.

You're absolutely correct and please don't forget our outstanding Main Stream Media, who does an OUTSTANDING job on letting the people know what our government is doing I mean the most intrusive bill in U.S history and all the media gives us is B.S to distract us. It's unreal!! People worry about the WMDs in Iran, what about the WMDs (Weapons of Mass Distraction) that our media tries to feed us everyday.

Washington policraps are building a fence around them to protect themselves from us the people that elected them to begin with and I wounder why . . .

In my opinion this is what they want, they want the people to get angry and revolt agianst them. What better way to kill off the constitution, where people have the power, then to introduce new legislation to take that power away from the people because of a massive revolt against the powers that are. Plus for those who haven't been paying attention, its not just the Democrats or Republicans that are corrupt (granted there are a few people on both side who aren't corrupt), its BOTH sides that are trying to take advantage.

I agree that even retired generals carry a hefty amount of weight. In truth, despite the president being commander-in-chief, the soldiers will listen to the generals, as the orders trickle down to the platoon level...We have witnessed this with coups in other countries.

I am not saying that will happen in America, but it very well could if things get bad enough. Everyone thinks the soldiers will obey the government, and inflict brutality on the populace, at the very worst, but in reality if any high-ranking officers are not on board, they very well may defy orders from the top and simply oust the government.

The government is nothing without the people, but it is even less without the military. That is my opinion, and I would like to think that is what would happen if TSHTF.

Originally posted by Reaper2137
People don't always see that we can speak our minds in the Military. That Soldier can disobey a direct order if it is unlawful. We need to as soldiers remember that we can do that, and that they cannot do a damn thing about it.

I agree with your ideals 100%...

However, I would have to argue that although they SAY nothing can be done about it... Something probably WILL still be done about it.

Especially if NDAA isn't veto'd.

Originally posted by Reaper2137
People don't always see that we can speak our minds in the Military. That Soldier can disobey a direct order if it is unlawful. We need to as soldiers remember that we can do that, and that they cannot do a damn thing about it.

Several inmates at military prisons might disagree with your conclusion.
To disobey ANY order will land your behind in the brig immediately.
The UCMJ will see to it that you stay there.

reply to post by metalshredmetal


I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the opposite of what you stated is what is really happening. The banking cartel hates the United States and have been trying to destroy your republic since it's founding (think the war of 1812 was really for independance? guess again). They want civil war in the states, as that means that instead of them having to co-opt another nation to attack you, you will bring down your government on your own. Can you Americans not see that the second Civil War is exactly what the banksters want? I mean no offence, but most Americans are playing right into the hands of the NWO. It's divide and conquer methodology at it's finest/worst.

reply to post by romanmel


Yup. Naivety is quite rampant among most civvies who think they know what the military is really about.

really some of you are mistaken slightly on how officers make rank. Yes they have to do the dog and pony show up to a certain point. 0-9 or Colonel after that its a club of generals that choose who gets to join their club.

No really that is how it works a club. doesn't matter how mean or how much you screw over the guy next to you. If the club doesn't like you, or they don't see you in a good light you don't become a general its that simple.

That is why a General holds his rank even after he retires there maybe more of them than presidents when it comes to retired staff. Yet I bet you, unless the guy was really hated by his men. He could still walk into a unit today and send them running under his command.

People who have never been in the military looking from the outside in, would think it crazy.

Ask a soldier if he has ever witnessed just that, 9-10 will tall you that they have seen it done and more than once. That is if the soldier has been in long enough to see command changes, command ceremonies and the like.

Originally posted by xXxinfidelxXx
reply to post by romanmel

 

Yup. Naivety is quite rampant among most civvies who think they know what the military is really about.

You're right.

Unfortunately, many youth fail to understand the difference between rights and reality. In the military you have rights but the reality is you don't.

Originally posted by romanmel

Originally posted by Reaper2137
People don't always see that we can speak our minds in the Military. That Soldier can disobey a direct order if it is unlawful. We need to as soldiers remember that we can do that, and that they cannot do a damn thing about it.

Several inmates at military prisons might disagree with your conclusion.
To disobey ANY order will land your behind in the brig immediately.
The UCMJ will see to it that you stay there.

The problem with it is that they didn't fallow a lawful order not an unlawful one. There is a difference and you have to be able to prove it. I don't know what men you are talking about but I refused orders more than once and was never sent to the brig.

Originally posted by romanmel

Originally posted by xXxinfidelxXx
reply to post by romanmel

 

Yup. Naivety is quite rampant among most civvies who think they know what the military is really about.

You're right.

Unfortunately, many youth fail to understand the difference between rights and reality. In the military you have rights but the reality is you don't.

I would agree, the reality is you have to get used to a mind set of paperwork, proof, repeat. In today's army you have to watch your back if you are going to speak your mind.

You have to be able to study military law (UCMJ) See were it apply's in your life and were i doesn't and to be smart enough to know when to keep your mouth shut. its that simple really.

reply to post by Reaper2137


It does not matter whether the order was lawful or not. In the military, you are trained to obey without even thinking about it, so if you do not follow an order, I really don't think they're gonna care whether it was legal or not. The emphasis is on the fact that you did not follow an order, period.

Originally posted by Reaper2137
really some of you are mistaken slightly on how officers make rank. Yes they have to do the dog and pony show up to a certain point. 0-9 or Colonel after that its a club of generals that choose who gets to join their club.

No really that is how it works a club. doesn't matter how mean or how much you screw over the guy next to you. If the club doesn't like you, or they don't see you in a good light you don't become a general its that simple.

That is why a General holds his rank even after he retires there maybe more of them than presidents when it comes to retired staff. Yet I bet you, unless the guy was really hated by his men. He could still walk into a unit today and send them running under his command.

People who have never been in the military looking from the outside in, would think it crazy.

Ask a soldier if he has ever witnessed just that, 9-10 will tall you that they have seen it done and more than once. That is if the soldier has been in long enough to see command changes, command ceremonies and the like.

Except you don't know how it works. It's not generals that give ranks, it's congress. Commissions are an act of congress and once you reach a certain rank your promotion is literally an act of congress. If you piss off the wrong politician you can be done for life. Most officers crap out at captain though.

And everyone holds their rank after they retire. They just stick RETIRED in front of it. And yes I've seen retired generals try to boss people around. An E-3 simply turned around and told him to stick it. A retired officer has no business ordering active duty soldiers around as he is not their commander. There is a chain of command for a reason and if you ain't in it you have no business giving orders.

Originally posted by xXxinfidelxXx
reply to post by Reaper2137

 

It does not matter whether the order was lawful or not. In the military, you are trained to obey without even thinking about it, so if you do not follow an order, I really don't think they're gonna care whether it was legal or not. The emphasis is on the fact that you did not follow an order, period.

Thank You for confirming the BORG like mentality.
gravitor

Originally posted by xXxinfidelxXx
reply to post by Reaper2137

 

It does not matter whether the order was lawful or not. In the military, you are trained to obey without even thinking about it, so if you do not follow an order, I really don't think they're gonna care whether it was legal or not. The emphasis is on the fact that you did not follow an order, period.

Yes it does, You can disobey an order, its really simple. You are trained to think now, don't know if you were in in the 1960's or some thing but the military has changed.

OMG....there is still HONOR in the military!

Originally posted by antonia

Originally posted by Reaper2137
really some of you are mistaken slightly on how officers make rank. Yes they have to do the dog and pony show up to a certain point. 0-9 or Colonel after that its a club of generals that choose who gets to join their club.

No really that is how it works a club. doesn't matter how mean or how much you screw over the guy next to you. If the club doesn't like you, or they don't see you in a good light you don't become a general its that simple.

That is why a General holds his rank even after he retires there maybe more of them than presidents when it comes to retired staff. Yet I bet you, unless the guy was really hated by his men. He could still walk into a unit today and send them running under his command.

People who have never been in the military looking from the outside in, would think it crazy.

Ask a soldier if he has ever witnessed just that, 9-10 will tall you that they have seen it done and more than once. That is if the soldier has been in long enough to see command changes, command ceremonies and the like.

Except you don't know how it works. It's not generals that give ranks, it's congress. Commissions are an act of congress and once you reach a certain rank your promotion is literally an act of congress. If you piss off the wrong politician you can be done for life. Most officers crap out at captain though.

And everyone holds their rank after they retire. They just stick RETIRED in front of it. And yes I've seen retired generals try to boss people around. An E-3 simply turned around and told him to stick it. A retired officer has no business ordering active duty soldiers around as he is not their commander. There is a chain of command for a reason and if you ain't in it you have no business giving orders.

edit on 23-12-2011 by antonia because: opps

You just show your ignorance of the military yet again, You really have no ideal what you are talking about when it comes to making rank do you? yes it takes an act of congress to make any officer a officer. Yet who do you think controls what names get given to congress for them to act?

use your brain, what little you have. an E-3 even turning on a 0-11 would be sent to the brig weather he is retired or not. and would lose his rank if not get kicked out for telling a general to stick it. Yet more show of how you have never been in the military. Yes there is a chain of command, and you have shown you have no ideal how it works.

Originally posted by vjr1113
The National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for Fiscal Year 2012 is a controversial bill that has been passed by both houses of Congress separately, and a final version approved by the Senate on December 15, 2011.[1][2][3] Though the White House[4] and Senate sponsors[5] maintain that the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF) already grants presidential authority for indefinite detention, the Act legislatively codifies[6] the President's authority to indefinitely detain terrorism suspects, including American citizens, without trial as defined in Title X, Subtitle D, SEC 1031(a-e) of the bill.[7] Because those who may be held indefinitely include U.S. citizens arrested on American soil, and because that detention may be by the military, the Act has received critical attention by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and media sources.[8][9][10][11][12]

from wiki

passed both houses and the senate, and soon the president. make no mistake ppl, EVRYONE is against us, both parties and our elected leaders.

i guess this things been passed every year for 48 years now, but this time indefinite detention is being added.

edit on 22-12-2011 by vjr1113 because: (no reason given)

Right and think about it folks, do you honestly think that it was coincidence in recent news that the Army/National Guard is adding an MOS titled "Civilian Detainment Specialist" (or something to that effect), OR how all of those so called "FEMA Camps" around the country are preparing to man up (hence the call for Civilian Detainment Specialist MOS), OR how about this recent "Statement of Work" call for:

National Continuity Programs (NCP) Program and Mission Support Services (PAMSS)

www.fbo.gov...

That in part calls for:

Operations Division: The Operations Division is responsible for ensuring that the DHS Secretary and FEMA Administrator have the ability to advise the President and implement the plans and programs of the Federal government for continuity of government. The Operations Division provides a single point-of-contact for assessing and implementing continuity plans across the Federal Executive Branch during an event that could potentially threaten the national security of the United States by threatening the Federal Executive Branch’s ability to provide essential services to the public.

Which further goes on to state:

Other efforts of the Operations Division include initiatives such as Operation Rendezvous (OPRON), Task Force Rendezvous, the development and integration of the Federal (and Mutual Aid) Emergency Response Official (F/ERO) Repository system, National Security Special Event (NSSE) contingency support, disaster relief, and humanitarian assistance contingency support. Additional efforts of the Operations division include Geospatial Information Systems (GIS), Blue Force Situational Awareness (BFSA), Continuity Analysis, and Command, Control, Communications and Computing (C4).

To sit here and say that without a doubt such and such will happen would be pure conjecture on anybodies part, BUT when you add up ALL that is going on, SOMETHING is about to happen folks...SOMETHING BIG, and something is telling me that SOMEONE (TPTB, Elites, Government) has known about it probably for quite a while (thus the "coincidences" I pointed out above) IMHO

Edit: Also something to note, that .pdf document also goes on to state the following with regards to security clearances:

1.4 SECURITY Contractor access to classified information is required under this contract. Several on site Government locations in which work under the Contract is to be performed include areas authorized for TOP SECRET/SCI materials and restricted to protect LIMITED

So let me get this right...the minimum level that they are looking qualified contractors to be at is Top Secret with the potential of being SCI?!?!? All that for DOMESTIC type circumstances?!?! Something DEFINITELY smells rotten in Denmark folks! I ain't buying it!!

reply to post by vjr1113


I'm worried about you guys.