Christianity, is it child emotional abuse?

Originally posted by gabby2011

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by gabby2011

.....Maybe I need to start a thread about child abuse in the military..though I would never blame all of the military for the actions of the perverted and demented amongst them... but how many stood around and watched?

Well, OK, go start that thread. I'd be curious to know what personal experience and facts you have.

Just put them on your new post, not this one.

I have facts.. but as you know much of this stuff is well hidden..

The fact remains nothing is hidden from God.. within His church.. or outside of the churches.

In my time serving as a MP, I can recall one case of (well actually child neglect rather than outright abuse).
I did not put that in this thread, because I do not know the individuals religion.
Sworn statement forms ask for height, weight, rank.....etc, but do not ask religion.

However the VAST majority of the US armed services are christian. (from buddies I served with...my experience...I would say approx 97.5% are christian)

Anyway, let me know when you start that new thread, these things can be discussed there.

I gotta tell you a funny story about confession. As you know kids in the Catholic church make their first confession at a young age. Young enough where pretty much the only thing we are thinking about is when we get to go out and play more

Well the nuns at our school said we had to give the priest a list of our sins --plural. You couldn't go in and just say like one sin. You had to give a bunch or they would think you weren't taking this seriously enough. I can remember getting ready to go into confession and starting to panic cause I didn't think my list of sins was long enough and I didn't want to get in trouble. So I made stuff up to put on the list. Instead of I called my brother a mean name (which maybe I did once or twice) I told the priest I did it like 6 times. And I didn't listen to my parents (which I was too scared at home most of the time not to listen but it sounded like what they would like to hear so I added it). And so on. So I go and make my confession whenever the nuns said we had to and did the same thing all the time. And after it was over was always relieved that I was done with that till next time.

Cracks me up that as kids we all told each other what penance the priest gave us and compared notes too, lol.

I always thought I was the only one who did that. Turns out talking to friends later who also were brought up through the Catholic church almost ALL of us did that

reply to post by LunaKat


It is a funny story, and I applaud you for having moved past it.
Luna, did you find it funny at the time? I know you said you would make up things to have a long enough list, and just get it over with.

Some kids (like vogon also) sort of learn to just "ignore" the degrading messages and they carry on. Others take it to heart...and wonder what they did or did not do.

Same as resilience in general; every person has their own strengths, and happily, many who as children were mistreated or were reared by parents who were poor examples DO overcome those handicaps and go on to be loving, well-rounded people. Others are fragile and damaged to the point of losing themselves.

There are studies being done with babies and toddlers now (fMRI) that show babies DO have a sense of morality, from as young as 8 months old, and they repond positively to seeing "bad guys" get their due. The studies are conducted as "puppet shows", with a kind puppet and a nasty one. It is amazing how these little ones know right from wrong, and have an inherent sense of "justice" meted out to the evildoers.

One day, perhaps, adults will realize that littles do know quite a bit; and that it is imperative for adults to be exemplary as well as be nurturing and validating for every child born. Lack of the power of language is not indicative of the powers of morality and justice. Kids are amazing. They really are. In general, actually, I prefer their company over many adults.

I am mildly saddened for you to have chosen not to parent. Although I appreciate and understand your reasons for not doing so, there is really no way to express the depth of love, the return to innocence and the utter joy of being a mother. You are a good soul, and would have been a fabulous parent. Brightest blessings, LunaKat, and thanks for joining into the thread with your sensitive and reasonable thoughts.

Namaste
--wt

reply to post by LunaKat

Well frivolous calls to emergency services are a problem We just had in the news here where a guy called emergency services because his phone didn't work and he wanted them to fix it. He kept calling 911. They kept telling him they don't fix phones. He was drunk obviously. But yeah they fine people like that

Just curious..are you also stealthykat?..

I was in a Baptist church until I was seven years old. My parents finally took me out of church because I'd started having nightmares, waking up screaming, and didn't want to sleep alone. It was horrible, and I was truly traumatized. It's too much. Religion is too complicated for a young child's mind. The words "like a thief in the night" scared me half to death. Also "sudden destruction will come upon you". I was terrified.

My mother would say "oh, no!!! no, no! God loves you, he loves you even more than I do". But I could never find any evidence of that. Even though I'm grown now, sometimes I still find myself thinking..."sudden destruction". *shivers*

Adult services and child services should be completely separate, or they should have adult only services when they want to talk about revelations. imo.

Originally posted by gabby2011

Just curious..are you also stealthykat?..

Nope, just LunaKat.

reply to post by angeldoll


It hurts me to hear of your experience. I do feel your pain.....Please understand, not all the world is this distorted christian thing. There are those out there (NOT christian) who understand compassion and love. My entire idea with this thread was to bring light to the emotional abuse that is veiled by the claim of christianity.
THANK YOU.....for coming forward with your experience.....I'm sure it was difficult, and I respect you for your courage.

Originally posted by gabby2011
Just curious..are you also stealthykat?..

Uh...gabby, the reason people look at you as (less than intelligent) is NOT because they make multiple log-ons to this site.

Its because you are twp.

(why do you think people constantly tell you to calm down and re-read)

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by LunaKat

 

It is a funny story, and I applaud you for having moved past it.
Luna, did you find it funny at the time? I know you said you would make up things to have a long enough list, and just get it over with.

I'm trying to remember back then. It wasn't until I was an adult that I found out that everyone else was making up the sins too thinking that they needed a bigger list. It was kind of a dicey thing. You wanted to be sure you had enough so they felt you were serious but not so many that you were in church for hours afterwards doing your penance.

I didn't find it funny at the time no. I mean we were just making sure we didn't step out of line. You didn't mess around with those nuns and priests at all. I hated mass...thought it was long and boring. I used to pass out in church too (signs I should avoid the place ) There was always something going on...including what I call Stations of the Gory Cross. That was another long drawn out affair in the church.

I always talked to God my own way. Church was just something to get through. We weren't supposed to fidget or talk or anything. It was just a requirement. I do understand though that for others confession made them feel bad. I guess I never took it seriously enough. Just wanted it over to do other stuff.

reply to post by angeldoll


I'm sorry too that you had those experiences Angeldoll. There is a lot in Revelations that would terrify a child. I agree there should be separate services if they are gonna talk about that so children don't hear it. I guess we were lucky they didn't talk about that in ours.

reply to post by vogon42


You know what? As silly as it sounds it was difficult to write that. Even I found it odd that it should be after all these many years. I just don't talk about it, ever. And you recognized it was difficult for me! Thank you, that kinda.....makes you special as far as I'm concerned.

LunaKat, thank you also for your kind words. I do go to church now, still, but a quieter one which is more focused on helping the community, and life, not death.

Happy New Year you guys.

reply to post by angeldoll


Not silly at all. You were brave to write that and admit it. I admire you for doing so.

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by gabby2011
Just curious..are you also stealthykat?..

Uh...gabby, the reason people look at you as (less than intelligent) is NOT because they make multiple log-ons to this site.

Its because you are twp.

(why do you think people constantly tell you to calm down and re-read)

edit on 29-12-2011 by vogon42 because: (no reason given)

Someday you may get to reread your posts and see the cruelty in them.. and be remorseful.

I have experienced remorse over some of the things I have posted.... deep remorse.

As for me being less than intelligent.. in the eyes of others.. it really doesn't matter to me.. I know my salvation and redemption does not lie with any humans.. much less the ones who denounce our savior Jesus Christ.

The reason I ask lunaKat if she is stealthykat is because they both seem to work as 911 operators.. and both have "kat" in their id's.

I have to chuckle at all of you who tell me to calm down.. perhaps it is a projection of how you are feeling onto me? Not sure how that works.. But its sort of amusing to read others telling you to come down..when you are in fact already very calm.

Originally posted by gabby2011

.. its sort of amusing to read others telling you to come down..when you are in fact already very calm.

yea....come down, like I'm up in a tree or something. (your right, it is amusing)
and, yes, I am calm.

However this thread is about the acts of emotional abuse on children that are veiled by christianity.....so, back on topic now.

reply to post by vogon42

However this thread is about the acts of emotional abuse on children that are veiled by christianity.....so, back on topic now.

Another thing I find amusing..is the amount of posts you have made bashing me..calling mentally touched..un intelliigent..all OFF TOPIC ..I might add.

When I do reply on topic..and make a reference to you caring about the abuse of children at the hands of Christians..yet you seem to think its ok to abuse adults.. you delete the part that is on topic..to reply to me.. and totally take it off topic again.

So in the theme of the topic of this thread vogon.. on the emotional abuse of children....what about the non Christians who abuse children.. by demeaning them.. making them feel less intelligent.. making them feel stupid for believing in God and Jesus.

There are people of all religions..as well as those who have no religion who demean children..as well as adults.

May Jesus have mercy on all of us..especially those in most need of His mercy.

Originally posted by gabby2011

However this thread is about the acts of emotional abuse on children that are veiled by christianity.....so, back on topic now.

....
So in the theme of the topic of this thread vogon.. on the emotional abuse of children....what about the non Christians who abuse children....

No, wrong again....this thread is about the child abusers who use god/chrtistianity to justify their actions of abuse.

Christianity has a history of abuses

Though the Lord spoke of the Gentiles

Romans 9:25 As he says also in Hosea, “I will call them ‘my people,’ which were not my people; and her ‘beloved,’ who was not beloved.” 9:26 “It will be that in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ There they will be called ‘children of the living God.’”

He also spoke of them

Isaiah 26:10 Let favor be shown to the wicked, yet he will not learn righteousness. In the land of uprightness he will deal wrongfully, and will not see the LORD’s majesty. 26:11 The LORD, your hand is lifted up, yet they don’t see; but they will see your zeal for the people, and be disappointed. Yes, fire will consume your adversaries.


Christians claim to believe that you should treat others as you want to be treated. So by bringing fear and condemnation to others for doing the very same things they continue to do are they going to be treated the same way unless they figure it out and get it right? Where in the bible does it say you won't be saved if your not a Christian? Believing in the bible doesn't make anyone a Christian only believing in one of the many Christian doctrines does.

Wow gigantic thread, and I don't have time to read it all, but I'll respond to the original post.

If you consider preying on someone's fear emotional abuse, then it most certainly is. I have a real problem with people pushing their narrow beliefs onto their kids, knowing they may not be correct. Teaching your child to believe in the tooth fairy is fairly harmless, because it's just a reward mechanism. Belief in a divine creator of the whole universe who knows all is a pretty crazy thing to tell someone, but when you tell a child, they will believe it anyway. Not to mention the message of hell that comes along with it, which is pretty much the most intense version of punishment anyone can fathom.

Abuse is just that, emotional or not. Religion is the abuse of the dumb. It trains you (through your faith) to claim you have the answer to everything, that answer being "god." This is a very dangerous way to think, because over time you become someone who hates not having an answer, or you too often accept things the way they are without digging into research.

Not sure how much this has been iterated on these boards, but belief that someone or something created the universe is not the issue at all, it's faith being taught as a virtue that is the problem. Faith, belief, or otherwise having an "answer" with no evidence, should NOT be viewed as something good or right. It should be shunned in our society. Science will take us only so far, but I think even respectable scientists need to acknowledge that it can't answer EVERY mystery, because we simply can't collect all the data.

The best way to get rid of your blind faith is to start saying "I don't know" if you don't know the answer to something. The more you say it, the more you will realize what you actually don't know, and you can start a path to filling in those blanks with real education.

Want an example of how this line of thinking should be shunned? Argue with any Christian using evidence, and they will wiggle every way possible to support their claims, before finally falling on the old "god did it, and we can't understand god." That is a really fancy way of saying "I don't know," but look how long it takes for a Christian to concede. That is what I'm talking about.

The best way to look at the idea of god or any deity is to replace the word with "the unknown", and you will be amazed how much it makes sense. People don't like feeling stupid, so they personify the unknown as such, using it as a tool to control the idiot who actually buys it. It's like a test, if you think someone has the real answers of the universe without question, you can be led into ALL kinds of nonsense.

reply to post by UnderStation

It's like a test, if you think someone has the real answers of the universe without question, you can be led into ALL kinds of nonsense.

Brilliantly put! Thanks for joining in, UnderStation! You might, if you have some time, read through the thread to get caught up on the various themes and variations.....
but,
regardless of that..........WELCOME TO ATS!!!

wildtimes