Victoria’s Secret Revealed in Child Picking Burkina Faso Cotton

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
This is why free markets can not work in a globalised market. If companies can basically get slave labour in countries whose citizens have no rights then they will.

Adam Smith, never advocated this type of Capitalism, in The wealth of Nations. Business was meant to improve the lives of the communities they set up in. Not to set up in pone country and use the cheap labour from another country. The invisible hand could work in a local community , but can not stretch across nations.

Here's an article discussing Fair Trade in a not so happy light


www.nypost.com...

reply to post by InfoKartel


It seems that the terms "fair" and "sustainable" have loose definitions.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by Domo1

 

Capitalism at it's finest.

Absolutely! People in poor countries have jobs so they can support themselves from their own efforts and not western taxpayers, and we have nice things to buy at fairly reasonable prices.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


I'm not talking about fair trade. I'm saying that free markets can't work in a globalised market. American companies should be using American workers. We should trade between nations, but not farm out the work for cheaper labour.

reply to post by InfoKartel


Where have I said "I am better than you"? Can you argue the positive points of Fair Trade outside of assuaging guilt for buying coffee harvested by people who work for low wages? If you do even a cursory search, you will find that even Fair Trade doesn't always help the poor laborers. So now tell me, where is the moral high ground of that?

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

I'm not talking about fair trade. I'm saying that free markets can't work in a globalised market. American companies should be using American workers. We should trade between nations, but not farm out the work for cheaper labour.

Thanks, I agree. But we need incentives to draw markets back to the US.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


The incentive should be with those who want to set up business in the first place, there needs to be some type of social responsibility. The succes of a business needs to be judged on more than just it's profit margins, a business works best when it is also improving the community it operates in. The employment should be local and the spending of the profits should be local. This is where the invisible hand can do its magic and benefit all.

Originally posted by Twiptwop

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by Domo1

 

Capitalism at it's finest.

Absolutely! People in poor countries have jobs so they can support themselves from their own efforts and not western taxpayers, and we have nice things to buy at fairly reasonable prices.

What do you mean 'support'?

Why are the people in those countries poor? Why do you call a country poor when, if you look at resources, they are far richer than America can hope to be? Because you think you are better at pillaging? Big business takes the opportunities and resources away from the people, pays them a few pennies for hundreds of dollars worth of work and you call that "supporting themselves"?

Pray tell, do you understand WHY there is a need for relatively low priced goods in the West? Because the people of the West are, relatively speaking, so poor compared to the people who own the businesses. Why are they so poor in comparison while living in a "rich country"? Because it's all artificially designed so that the big business gets richer while every single one of you on this forum gets poorer, the math does not lie.

So much confusion...

Originally posted by InfoKartel

Originally posted by Twiptwop

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by Domo1

 

Capitalism at it's finest.

Absolutely! People in poor countries have jobs so they can support themselves from their own efforts and not western taxpayers, and we have nice things to buy at fairly reasonable prices.

What do you mean 'support'?

Why are the people in those countries poor? Why do you call a country poor when, if you look at resources, they are far richer than America can hope to be? Because you think you are better at pillaging? Big business takes the opportunities and resources away from the people, pays them a few pennies for hundreds of dollars worth of work and you call that "supporting themselves"?

Pray tell, do you understand WHY there is a need for relatively low priced goods in the West? Because the people of the West are, relatively speaking, so poor compared to the people who own the businesses. Why are they so poor in comparison while living in a "rich country"? Because it's all artificially designed so that the big business gets richer while every single one of you on this forum gets poorer, the math does not lie.

So much confusion...

Why are they poor? Because they are too lazy to get up off their asses and organise businesses to mine and harvest the many resources you talk about. They have gotten too used to handouts from western charities and governments. If more were in work like this girl, they would be able to support themselves from their own efforts and improve their own countries.

Why is there a need for relatively low priced goods? Because we want them. Because we as a civilisation work very hard all year, and we want to buy nice shiny gadgets to make that long daily commute and the grey Monday mornings worth the effort.

Capitalism is truly beautiful. People in poor African countries have gainful employment to improve their nations, and we have the nice things we want. Win win situation.

reply to post by Twiptwop

Why are they poor? Because they are too lazy to get up off their asses and organise businesses to mine and harvest the many resources you talk about.

You cannot honestly believe that. I mean, you can't even spell organize. If by chance, you are able to read, go read history. See how colonialism in the 21st century is very much alive.

They have gotten too used to handouts from western charities and governments. If more were in work like this girl, they would be able to support themselves from their own efforts and improve their own countries.

You sound completely ignorant on the issue. As if the West has EVER given anything for free to these countries. Maybe you should read up on this issue before you make a comment.

Why is there a need for relatively low priced goods? Because we want them. Because we as a civilisation work very hard all year, and we want to buy nice shiny gadgets to make that long daily commute and the grey Monday mornings worth the effort.

You make it sound like you are insane. Why the hell would worthless objects make your life worth living? It is because you got your priorities mixed up, BIGTIME.

Capitalism is truly beautiful. People in poor African countries have gainful employment to improve their nations, and we have the nice things we want. Win win situation.

There are no "poor African countries". The West with its colonialism has made these countries poor by robbing them of resources. How long do you think the lie will last? Why do you think people are revolting worldwide? It is against the corrupt way of thinking that puts objects ahead of people, the disgusting and detached mentality that you display is testament to this. I could never imagine being friends nor doing business with that mentality. Nor can billions of other people.

So when you get a clue and read up on what is actually happening instead of what you wish to happen, you may reply to my post and expect a reply back. Until then, I will not take you serious and I have a hunch that not a lot of humans do. Maybe your peers who revel in the same mentality as you do will, but none outside of that little circle.

reply to post by Twiptwop


I would gladly work and live without any cheap goods - to make my commute to work worthwhile, I cannot believe the comments that came out of you - are from a human being. Do you realise that the politicians who run the country in which Clarisse lives are all well provided for and look very well fed?

How you could condone the conditions Clarisse lives in is heartless. You think a thirteen year old being beaten by a man to perform backbreaking work for very little reward - justifies your lifestyle? I hope one day you find your heart because I am sure you lost it on your way to work one monday morning...retrace your steps and you might find it.

Much Peace...

Originally posted by InfoKartel
reply to post by Twiptwop

 

You cannot honestly believe that. I mean, you can't even spell organize. If by chance, you are able to read, go read history. See how colonialism in the 21st century is very much alive.

It's called "British English", silly little American fool. I have no problems with colonialism, we need to make money, so we do.

You sound completely ignorant on the issue. As if the West has EVER given anything for free to these countries. Maybe you should read up on this issue before you make a comment.

The west does nothing but come running along every time the Africans suffer a drought caused by inept governments and planning. We have done this too much, and now they are under the impression that the west will breast feed them, so they have become lazy and idle.

You make it sound like you are insane. Why the hell would worthless objects make your life worth living? It is because you got your priorities mixed up, BIGTIME.

Because I work my ass off, and I want them. Tell you what, why don't you show us all how it is done? Get rid of all your "worthless objects" like your car, mobile phone, computer, iPod, televisions, holidays and nice clothes. Show us where YOUR priorities are. Oh no, you wont do that. Typical Marxist hypocrite.

There are no "poor African countries". The West with its colonialism has made these countries poor by robbing them of resources. How long do you think the lie will last? Why do you think people are revolting worldwide? It is against the corrupt way of thinking that puts objects ahead of people, the disgusting and detached mentality that you display is testament to this. I could never imagine being friends nor doing business with that mentality. Nor can billions of other people.

I'd be very interested in seeing the evidence you have of western nations "robbing" them of anything. Looks to me like the African nations were in need of money as is usual, and we gave it to them in return for resources. It's called "business". I could never imagine you having friends, either.

So when you get a clue and read up on what is actually happening instead of what you wish to happen, you may reply to my post and expect a reply back. Until then, I will not take you serious and I have a hunch that not a lot of humans do. Maybe your peers who revel in the same mentality as you do will, but none outside of that little circle.

Nah, what you really mean is you are not mentally capable of holding a debate with people of a differing opinion because you have spent far too long with your Marxist friends, all sharing the same ideas and views regarding the enslavement of people to the government in conditions worse than Africa. Perversely, every time I see the reds holding their meetings, they are always in Starbucks, with their iPhones and iPads, wearing nice expensive clothes. Usually all go to exclusive universities as well.

Your white guilt rhetoric is sickening.

Originally posted by Amanda5
reply to post by Twiptwop

 

I would gladly work and live without any cheap goods - to make my commute to work worthwhile, I cannot believe the comments that came out of you - are from a human being. Do you realise that the politicians who run the country in which Clarisse lives are all well provided for and look very well fed?

Go for it. Give up all your luxuries in life. Nobody is stopping you. I don't care about the politicians in that nation, it's not my problem.

How you could condone the conditions Clarisse lives in is heartless. You think a thirteen year old being beaten by a man to perform backbreaking work for very little reward - justifies your lifestyle? I hope one day you find your heart because I am sure you lost it on your way to work one monday morning...retrace your steps and you might find it.

Much Peace...

I have no care in the world for people outside of my nation and a select few other nations. She chose the job, her problem. Peace is for the weak.

Victoria's Secret .. the OTHER secret ... women don't really look like those models and putting those clothes on (or TRYING to put those clothes on ) doesn't make you look like a super model but Victorias Secret wants you to think you will so you'll spend $$ on their clothing.

reply to post by Twiptwop


I am not weak and I believe in Peace. One day you will too. Clarisse and Children like her are not weak. You are the one who lives with weakness - you are too afraid to step outside your world of luxury.

I respect you live the life you want but to show sooooo little empathy or care for another human being is what makes you weak. Clarisse is strong next to you. And I don't think she chose to be a foster Child nor did she choose to be beaten but you - you chose to be heartless and you chose to live in excess. One day you will see that your luxury is just an illusion.

Much Peace...

reply to post by Twiptwop

It's called "British English", silly little American fool. I have no problems with colonialism, we need to make money, so we do.

Then you have no problem at all with seeing it happen to Britain. "We need to make money" , goes to show how brainwashed one needs to be to support colonialism. Do you even know how money is made?

The west does nothing but come running along every time the Africans suffer a drought caused by inept governments and planning.

Who pays the inept government? The West! Could it be that they PAY them to stay inept? Not entirely I bet, but partially yes.

We have done this too much, and now they are under the impression that the west will breast feed them, so they have become lazy and idle.

For the riches you have taken you need to work for generations before you can say you've done too much. Every empire falls and the way you are treated after your fall is how you've treated those you took from. Talk about lazy, ever taken a look at your own country? Why would you need to colonize and steal from others? Because you don't have anything of yourself!

Because I work my ass off, and I want them.

Good, that's your own right. But your right does not trump the rights of the children in far away countries, so expect the consequence for it. Everyone has to. Your arrogance at that moment will do nothing for you.

Tell you what, why don't you show us all how it is done?

You don't know me.

Get rid of all your "worthless objects" like your car, mobile phone, computer, iPod, televisions, holidays and nice clothes.

Again you argue from assumptions. But may I remind you that a computer is not so much a luxury as it is a necessity if one wants to reach people from all over.

Show us where YOUR priorities are. Oh no, you wont do that. Typical Marxist hypocrite.

I do, but you wouldn't know that because you do not know me.

I'd be very interested in seeing the evidence you have of western nations "robbing" them of anything. Looks to me like the African nations were in need of money as is usual, and we gave it to them in return for resources. It's called "business".

I guess one can make up names to cover up their "theft" to not upset the greater populace. Hence the question: How long do you think the lies will last?

I could never imagine you having friends, either.

You couldn't. There's the difference.

Nah, what you really mean is you are not mentally capable of holding a debate with people of a differing opinion because you have spent far too long with your Marxist friends, all sharing the same ideas and views regarding the enslavement of people to the government in conditions worse than Africa.

Mentally capable? That's rich coming from you. You have not answered to any point made, you've only gone in a circle, which coincidentally, ends with you with your head up your...

Perversely, every time I see the reds holding their meetings, they are always in Starbucks, with their iPhones and iPads, wearing nice expensive clothes. Usually all go to exclusive universities as well.

I don't make purchases from Starbucks nor do I own anything Apple. I don't go to an exclusive university as life is my university.

Your white guilt rhetoric is sickening.

And your assumptions are weird and wrong. Maybe a little projection going on?

Besides,

You are proving, however irrelevant, nearly every point I made in a different post. Thank you for that. May we hope for a world without child slavery and labor. In the meantime, rest assured that I'm not as much a hypocrite as you make me out to be. But that's irrelevant as well, ones past should not hold one back from taking the straight and narrow road ahead.

Originally posted by InfoKartel

Thank you too, for proving the hypocrisy of the Left. You have demonstrated a desire to remove the right to purchase expensive consumer goods, as long as you are allowed yours. You seemingly hate the fact that this girl is in a job with poor conditions she chose to take, whilst having no problem seeing westerners enslaved by their own governments. You claim that we have "stolen" from Africa, but would have no problems in seeing a communist dictatorship steal from it's own people. Anything else to declare?

reply to post by Twiptwop


The girl doesn't have a job, she is a slave. The hypocrisy of the right is to pretend that a child being physically forced to work, beaten for not working herself to death, does not take away her right to bargain for a fair price for her labor.

What you are claiming is that slavery is an acceptable market practice. This is not market economics, it is criminal activity, and people have the right to choose not to participate in this criminal activity, to speak out against this criminal activity.

Numerous laws are in place to prevent people from profiting from criminal activity, drugs and sex are the most obvious situations. Making laws that prevent goods made from slavery illegal is no different than laws that prevent the sale of child prostitution. Both are heinous activities that should be illegal.

People should not be allowed to sell goods on the market made from slave labor any more than they have the right to sell stolen goods. Both are criminal activities.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

The incentive should be with those who want to set up business in the first place, there needs to be some type of social responsibility. The succes of a business needs to be judged on more than just it's profit margins, a business works best when it is also improving the community it operates in. The employment should be local and the spending of the profits should be local. This is where the invisible hand can do its magic and benefit all.

One of the arguments against Fair Trade is that it sets an artificial price above the market price for a product that is unable to sustain itself at those market prices, and other businesses of similar product suffer. So it is not really as fair as it is presented to be. I was thinking about it this morning, and while it is charitable, it is also a bit redistributionist, just not in a direct way. It is still a subsidy though. People may not know that unless there is a note on the product.
So the invisible hand works by artificially jacking up prices to reflect what someone thinks a market value should be for poor people that is higher than the actual market price. That is interesting. I'll have to run that by Adam Smith.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


If those goods sold at a lower price were made from criminal activity, then they should not be allowed to be sold in the market. This is a basic rule of civilization. We have laws against selling stolen and pirated goods, defective goods, and goods made by slave labor.

You are trying to claim that is alright to sell goods obtained by criminal activity.