College Mate: Obama Was an “Ardent” “Marxist-Leninist”

Cultural Marxism is complete rubbish, too. It's nothing more than conservative slander against those of us who made it out of the 19th century.

Originally posted by Atzil321
Whats wrong with communism exactly? I can never understand why americans hate marxism so much. Why not take the time to read The Communist Manifesto and try to understand it? Rather than just hate on it because that's the american way......

Are you serious?. Have you read it? America was founded as a freedom based nation and the constitution in it's proper interpretation outlines those freedoms and was supposed to protect those freedoms of the individuals living under it. Mind you we have misinterpreted it badly and strayed totally from the original intent, but the communist manifesto starts with enslavement of the people for the benefit of the government and winds up crushing all freedoms and individuality. Even a badly interpreted American constitution is better than that evil document.

Originally posted by dillweed
Walks like a duck, acts like a duck, quacks like a duck.... Even his supporters have to question their beliefs after three years. Sure, the ones who take 'Obama' pills see nothing wrong, but all the independents from the last election have to be kicking themselves in the arse for not seeing this.

Not really, although I voted for change and got nonCENTS. The alternative was the traitor McCain who thinks it is a good idea to murder American citizens without due process and torture people. I'm hoping Ron Paul can at least give me a choice because no way will I vote for Newt, Perry, or Romney.

I don't think there is any wrong with communism, it is good natured in origin but it cannot be imposed on a sovereign being. Human beings are free, belong to no one but this earth and if you force someone into communism through punishment of violence, you're taking away their freedom, plain and simple. I say voluntary communism is fine.

Originally posted by jibeho

Originally posted by Atzil321
Whats wrong with communism exactly? I can never understand why americans hate marxism so much. Why not take the time to read The Communist Manifesto and try to understand it? Rather than just hate on it because that's the american way......

Because socialism (derived from marxism) fails every time and is failing before our eyes in Europe as we speak. I don't want that in my nation nor did my relatives who died fighting against its spread.

If socialism is such a failure then why are we depending on a socialist country to bail us out? There is more than one type of socialism in fact the happiest country on earth is socialist.

Originally posted by beezzer
Norway, a country often touted as a success story for state sponsored nationalism/socialism (whatever) has a wee crisis right now.
In my thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...
(shameless plug, sorry

)
They have a butter shortage. It's now at @500.00 dollars a pound. Which is a beautiful example of what happens when government controls a resource.

Which leads me back to why it is a bad thing to have a marxist-leninist as president.

Yep. Thats because you have forces, bureaucrats and other creatures, entering into the production and distribution chain of the product. 500 a pound represents tax, fees, inspectors and other skim points at rates that dont represent any market reality at all. Rather it represents fat salares, price compensation for all the free butter being passed out that has to be paid for otherwise and money that has zero to do with butter. It amounts to a big mean ugly regressive tax on the people who will pay that amount for butter.

Joseph McCarthy is alive and well

When you are down and out, drag out the old Communist punching bag!

Originally posted by Atzil321
reply to post by GeorgiaGirl

 

I don't realy think it's awsome. I do think parts of it could be incorporated into capitalism to create a better system for everyone. Redistribution of wealth and more social programs to lift people out of poverty ect. But most americans are vehemently opposed to the idea....

Americans, those opposed to it anyway, see it as doing nothing but creating another entitlement class. As it has been here the more they get the more the bar moves up on the definition of what poverty is.

Every system based on non-sustainability fails.
I'll leave it at that...


For the time being

Originally posted by dsclev

Originally posted by Atzil321
Whats wrong with communism exactly? I can never understand why americans hate marxism so much. Why not take the time to read The Communist Manifesto and try to understand it? Rather than just hate on it because that's the american way......

Are you serious?. Have you read it? America was founded as a freedom based nation and the constitution in it's proper interpretation outlines those freedoms and was supposed to protect those freedoms of the individuals living under it. Mind you we have misinterpreted it badly and strayed totally from the original intent, but the communist manifesto starts with enslavement of the people for the benefit of the government and winds up crushing all freedoms and individuality. Even a badly interpreted American constitution is better than that evil document.

This guy has never even read the book. It was Lenin who advocated the building of a state and the usage of existing apparatus, not Marx. Marx was very critical of reformists and authoritarians. To say the communist manifesto advocates "enslavement of the people for the benefit of the government" is ignorant in the extreme (at best), particularly when it's a document that advocates direct democracy. The Communist Manifesto talks of destroying the apparatus that the ruling class uses to maintain its power, NOT maintaining and exploiting it. That was Lenin's goal, not Marx's.

You need to get past the idea that all marxists advocate the same system - in fact, they do not agree on even the basics. Especially considering there is an old tradition, that goes back to the days of Marx himself, that advocated complete removal and abolition of the state in favour of direct democracy.

Some of y'all haven't studied political theory for a second in your life, and it shows - the views you seem to hold regarding marxism are warped and distorted in the extreme. This is what you get when people do not deny ignorance and just buy into whatever propaganda bull# they hear on the radio. That y'all just refer to "communists" as some giant monolithic group shows an extreme level of ignorance in a few ways:

a) You do not have even a basic understanding of the structure and status quo in the revolutionary left (Marxists, communists, socialists, and anarchists). They are NOT a unified group by any means, are extremely divided, and are often so sectarian that in some cases they will side with right-wing groups or police rather than other revolutionary leftists, simply due to ideological disputes.

b) There is no monolithic ideology in the revolutionary left. Again, they are extremely fragmented. You will be hard pressed to find two groups that advocate the same system. When most of the 'Cold Warriors' refer to 'communists', 'socialists', or 'marxists' they are all referring to what, in political science terms, is called Marxism-Leninism. Stalinism, Maoism, et al are derivatives of Marxism-Leninism. It is more correct to refer to advocates of a large, authoritarian, bureaucratic state as Marxist-Leninists, or simply Leninists. To lump them all in together is fundamentally ignorant, particularly with the range that do not advocate the building of the state at all but the complete abolition thereof: anarcho-communists, left communists, council communists, etc. This is not even to mention that even Marxist-Leninists do not agree with each other on what the system should look like. There are major ideological disputes between them.

c) Not all communists or marxists are socialists. 'Socialism' means a nation-state that attempts to reconcile marxist theory with the usage of a state apparatus - something that, as many marxists or communists will tell you, it is inherently incompatible with. Leninists (and derivatives thereof - stalinism, maoism, et al) tend to be socialists, whereas others tend not to be - mutualists, anarcho-communists, left communists, etc are all very large tendencies within Marxism and are strictly anti-state and thus not socialists.

d) Furthermore, not all communists are Marxists. These types are less common, since Marx was so influential on just about everybody - particularly as Marx did not advocate any particular structure for society or path of development. What Marx wrote was a critique, not a plan, and it was a critique of the state, so-called "representative" systems as well as market economics from the era. Because it was just a critique, a huge range of movements have it as the basis of their ideology, but by no means is Marx's work supported by all communists.

The idea that there is a large conspiracy of "communists" trying to infiltrate the US government and turn it into some sort of fascist state, protective of corporations and protective of the business elite reflects a fundamental ignorance of the facts.

I find it funny that one of our fellow members has provided information that casts doubt on the facts in the OP, yet we continue to pass it over in favor of continued claims of Marxism and such.

Considering the use of the word ardent as it was used by WW2 propagandists, its easy to see what this thread is for.....and its not to talk about facts. Im saddened that one of our own mods had to participate in the ignorance.

Pity......

And now he's just an ardent idiot, jackass.........

"Workers of the world unite - it's not just a slogan anymore" - Andy Stearn, the WH's most frequent visitor. Just one of innumerable self confessed COMMUNISTS that surround OBAMA.

The world of Marxism/Communism may well be riven by faction infighting - just the same as the world of Islam, not surprising since they are both based on psychological con tricks and morally empty systems. But make no mistake they both know who their enemy is and will work together to destroy it.

You all really have to reach for this stuff huh? I guess this means someone remembers him from school now? That argument over with?

How come when people came out before and said they went to school with him and remembered him, you all dismissed them but this one guy, well he is the holy grail?

This is so transparent now that it is sickening.

Originally posted by Mkoll
So this means that all the people who have been calling Obama socialist were right. Somehow the satisfaction of being right doesn't make me feel any better about this.

How does this mean that?
Please explain.

Originally posted by 46ACE

Originally posted by Atzil321
Whats wrong with communism exactly? I can never understand why americans hate marxism so much. Why not take the time to read The Communist Manifesto and try to understand it? Rather than just hate on it because that's the american way......

Because it looks great on paper on campus; but somehow just never seems to turn out that way in application.

Capitalism looks great on paper too. Can you show me an example of a place where it is working?

Originally posted by jibeho

Originally posted by Atzil321
Whats wrong with communism exactly? I can never understand why americans hate marxism so much. Why not take the time to read The Communist Manifesto and try to understand it? Rather than just hate on it because that's the american way......

Because socialism (derived from marxism) fails every time and is failing before our eyes in Europe as we speak. I don't want that in my nation nor did my relatives who died fighting against its spread.

You have socialism in your nation because it was founded into it and it works wonderfully. Driven on a road lately?

Originally posted by pngxp

can you name one large scale example where communism was/is honestly successful for everyone involved?

just one example is all. and some isolated island tribe of 3,000 natives in the middle of nowhere doesnt count because it doesnt translate or apply to a country with 300,000,000.

Same question to you but exchange capitalism for communism. And some isolated island tribe of 3,00 natives in the middle of nowhere does not count because I said so and not for any real reason. I am going to randomly pick the number 300 million and that is MY standard you must adhere to in your answer. You are ridiculous but I do want that example.

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl
I'm scared at how many people have turned up in this thread to proclaim how awesome Marxism is. Wow.

How many of them do you see here?

What's the big problem with this? We live in a country that is touted to be a democracy while actually existing as a capitalistic-plutocracy, where the wealthiest buy political power and create a large population of poor to employ. If we became a true socialistic society we would see the end to our current problems with corruption and the great dumbing down would cease over time bringing about the new renaissance.