Should the troops be pulled out of Iraq?

Originally posted by zcheng
"Fake" maybe be the wrong word chosen, "Frauded" maybe more accurate. Of course, many people know the 2000 election is "Frauded", so it was not an election as well.

You're wrong again, zcheng. The Florida ballots were counted, recounted and counted again and the results came out the same every time. Independent auditors did the same thing after the courts ruled and came to the same conclusion. There are some real sore losers in the Democrat party. It's pretty disgraceful, I admit. I'm very embarassed for them because of their tactics and behavior.

We won the body count. We ran away after 58,000 while we inflicted millions of deaths on the VC and NVA troops.

Originally posted by verfed
We won the body count. We ran away after 58,000 while we inflicted millions of deaths on the VC and NVA troops.

I'll buy that. The Viet Cong was effectively defeated at Tet 68. I was there for the first few hours of Tet 69, when the NVA hit over 100 sites across the country and they were roundly defeated. If the enemy had not so many fifth columnists here in the US, feeding our kids such BS, we might have had a chance.

I have to admit that the Johnson administration went about the whole thing with such arrogance that was so typical of Lyndon Johnson, that he failed to win over the popular opinion, leaving the communists with very fertile ground.

We can't relive history. The Americans who died, died in the cause of freedom. And they did it for a nation of strangers. There is not higher cause in all the universe. And those who are dying in Iraq are dying for the same cause.

Don't let the cowards and turncoats and the infiltrators fool you. The whole argument about WMDs is just a red herring. When the US was underfire and looking for the bad guys, Saddam thumbed his nose at the US and the world community. He got what he deserved. If he didn't have WMDs he should have played ball.

Now there is a huge power struggle over who will control Iraq. This is the second and the most important part of the war. We can't give up now. We can't let the whiners, naysayers, and the enemies of freedom deter us from our cause.

[edit on 04/9/7 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
We can't relive history. The Americans who died, died in the cause of freedom. And they did it for a nation of strangers. There is not higher cause in all the universe. And those who are dying in Iraq are dying for the same cause.

Of course, there is no higher cause to kill millions of civilians in Vietnam in name of freedom, and still so proud of your effective killing machine! Even Hitler can not match your evil!

Originally posted by zcheng
Of course, there is no higher cause to kill millions of civilians in Vietnam in name of freedom, and still so proud of your effective killing machine! Even Hitler can not match your evil!

Your allegations are offensive. And you conveniently neglect to recall the millions killed by the communists after the US left Souteast Asia. You are disingenuous. Do you reside in the US?

Off topic: When you consult the I Ching, do you use the coin method or the yarrow stick method?

[edit on 04/9/7 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Your allegations are offensive. Do you reside in the US?

Off topic: When you consult the I Ching, do you use the coin method or the yarrow stick method?

Is that relevant to the topic where I reside? I reside out of China.

I tried to understand "Yi Jing", but I can not. I may try again later. Use stick will be easier to read.

Originally posted by bushblows
Immediately.

13 have been killed since Monday.

Thousands are amputees.

And let these brave men who have died and gotten wounded do it all in vain? They are on a mission there and they very well know what they are doing, what they're up against and the risks involved.

The longer we stay there the more terror groups are going to spring to life.

I believe you've got this one backwards.

PS...where's Bin Laden?

He'll be making an appearance here shortly, in a body shackle,taken into custody by our Special Forces. They will never give up on this low-life murderer.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
And let these brave men who have died and gotten wounded do it all in vain?

I wonder if they said that about Vietnam when it was only 1,000
There has to be a point when it ends.
I think it should be soon after the elections, otherwise we may see that number go to 2,000 then 3,000 and up.

[edit on 7-9-2004 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Originally posted by bushblows
Immediately.
PS...where's Bin Laden?

He'll be making an appearance here shortly, in a body shackle,taken into custody by our Special Forces. They will never give up on this low-life murderer.

Really?
It seems Bush has given up:

"I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I don't really care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - George Bush. March 13, 2002


[edit on 7-9-2004 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by verfed
We won the body count. We ran away after 58,000 while we inflicted millions of deaths on the VC and NVA troops.

Hey, what do you mean by," we ran away"?

We've never ran away from nothing. We were pulled out of Vietnam.

This was done by then President Nixon, because he didn't think it was right to put our troops in harms way with our hands tied. In Iraq, the rules of engagement differ from the ones in Southeast Asia.

But you're right, in every major battle our troops engaged in over there, they kicked pure-t commie tail.

When the day comes that we do pull out of Iraq, the mission will be complete.

It's sounds as though you meant well, but let's get this straight.

thought provoking as usual.

The sooner a stable iraqi government happens and a competent defense force is organised the better. Then the soldiers can have a well earned rest. Before the next conflilct begins. Is it just me or do you think this decade and possibly the next is going to see a lot of conflict?

Originally posted by zchengI tried to understand "Yi Jing", but I can not. I may try again later. Use stick will be easier to read.

Since you read English, I highly recommend the translation listed below which includes the Confucian Commentaries and very detailed explanations of the text with historical and philosophical background. The translation was done in collaboration with Nai-hsuan, one of the foremost scholars of the period in which the translation was done in the early part of the 20th century. I have been greatly influenced by this work.

In order to fully appreciate the Book of Changes one must consult and observe. You must get beyond the urge to consult trivially and consult regularly about real issues in your life. Over time the philosophy will become a part of you and your view of life will be transformed. According to the Analects (VII, xvi) Confucius once said:

"If some years were added to my life, I would devote fifty of them to the study of the oracle, and might then avoid committing great errors. "

The I Ching or Book of Changes
by C.F. Baynes (Editor), R. Wilhelm (Translator), Cary F. Baynes

www.amazon.com...






[edit on 04/9/7 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by Intelearthling
And let these brave men who have died and gotten wounded do it all in vain?

I wonder if they said that about Vietnam when it was only 1,000
There has to be a point when it ends, I think it should be soon after the elections, otherwise we'll see that number go to 2,000 then 3,000 and up.

There exists a granite wall in Washington D.C., with 58,000+ names of those who sacrificed their lives inscribed upon it. I didn't go to Southeast Asia, I was too young. But I went to The Wall once, and it's an emotional and moving experience. I truly felt the grief of the vets who were present there that day.

I just hope you're not implying that our current administration would allow that to happen again?

Originally posted by Intelearthling
There exists a granite wall in Washington D.C., with 58,000+ names of those who sacrificed their lives inscribed upon it. I didn't go to Southeast Asia, I was too young. But I went to The Wall once, and it's an emotional and moving experience. I truly felt the grief of the vets who were present there that day.

I just hope you're not implying that our current administration would allow that to happen again?

I hope that they don't allow it to happen again.
I've seen articles stating that they are setting up bases in Iraq to be used until at least 2006 but I don't know if that'll be the end of the mission.

They keep saying they can't allow Iraq to fail so the date to pull out could keep getting pushed back if there is still violence in Iraq, no matter how many have already died.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by zchengI tried to understand "Yi Jing", but I can not. I may try again later. Use stick will be easier to read.

Since you read English, I highly recommend the translation listed below which includes the Confucian Commentaries and very detailed explanations of the text with historical and philosophical background. The translation was done in collaboration with Nai-hsuan, one of the foremost scholars of the period in which the translation was done in the early part of the 20th century. I have been greatly influenced by this work.

Thanks for the information. It is remarkable for you to have such interest in Chinese literature. It is said so: if you can really understand "Yi Jing", you can understand the future and the past.

I am a Chinese, and I can read the original Chinese scripts. But it is difficult to understand and to apply.

Only a fool would pull the troops out of Iraq.
The yanks arent helping them selvs the promsie billons of dollars in reconstruction but so far nothing has happened. The troops would leave sooner if the yanks gave some of the contracts to countries that didnt take part in the attack on Iraq.

The War in Iraq is merely one theatre of conflict in the FIRST GLOBAL CIVIL WAR. There will be more conflicts but don't mistake them as a new war. They are not, they are merely new HOT combat zones opening up.
In my view, the first attempt at Globalization is failing. Globalization will not STICK. It is on its way out.

So what to do if you are an American? First, GET OUT OF IRAQ. You are WAY overextended and if Iran preemptively strikes you will lose atleast half your combat brigades and have to leave all your heavy equipment behind. It will be a millitary disaster. Don't kid yourselves, your army is pinned by the insurgency and is very vulnerable. Remember Stalingrad! The German 6th Army was the best in the world. But when left in an untenable position, it was destroyed.
Second, GO ALL OUT TO REPLACE THE FOSSIL FUEL ECONOMY. Your reliance on fossil fuels is your achilles' heel. You CAN and WILL be cutoff from ME oil supplies. It will happen when you can least afford it..
Third, START remembering WHO YOU ARE! You need to examine the ideals of your founding fathers. I suggest you read Jefferson perhaps Descartes. You are spiritually and intellectually bankrupt. You need to rediscover TRUTH and JUSTICE. You need to apply TRUTH and JUSTICE vigorously in your own 50 States.

I worry for you America, you have been decieved by your elite. You are weaker than you think. You are ripe for a Great Fall.

Originally posted by Old White Russian
The War in Iraq is merely one theatre of conflict in the FIRST GLOBAL CIVIL WAR. There will be more conflicts but don't mistake them as a new war. They are not, they are merely new HOT combat zones opening up.
In my view, the first attempt at Globalization is failing. Globalization will not STICK. It is on its way out.

So what to do if you are an American? First, GET OUT OF IRAQ. You are WAY overextended and if Iran preemptively strikes you will lose atleast half your combat brigades and have to leave all your heavy equipment behind. It will be a millitary disaster. Don't kid yourselves, your army is pinned by the insurgency and is very vulnerable. Remember Stalingrad! The German 6th Army was the best in the world. But when left in an untenable position, it was destroyed.
Second, GO ALL OUT TO REPLACE THE FOSSIL FUEL ECONOMY. Your reliance on fossil fuels is your achilles' heel. You CAN and WILL be cutoff from ME oil supplies. It will happen when you can least afford it..
Third, START remembering WHO YOU ARE! You need to examine the ideals of your founding fathers. I suggest you read Jefferson perhaps Descartes. You are spiritually and intellectually bankrupt. You need to rediscover TRUTH and JUSTICE. You need to apply TRUTH and JUSTICE vigorously in your own 50 States.

I worry for you America, you have been decieved by your elite. You are weaker than you think. You are ripe for a Great Fall.

I dont think America is a weak as you think it is.I dont think Iran would launch a conventional or nuke attack on Iraq. All Iran has to do is keep sponsoring the insurgents and unless the yanks turn words into action future american leaders will have had enough of Iraq and will pull the troops out. Then Iraq will descend into a civil war.
The truth is there was a plan to win the war , But there was no plan on how they were going to rebuild Iraq even the most loyal supporter of Bush would have to admit that not having a plan to rebuilt Iraq was or is the height of Stupidity.

You have spoken much truth, but our commitment to Iraq must remain resolute. We do need to read the works of our Founders, but schools are to interested in our kid reading Maya Angelou, Langston Hughes, Karl Marx, Noam Chomsky.

The rot is from within, but we must continue to fight those from without and help to spread democracy to the world. It is a manifest destiny, if you will.

Originally posted by elaine
You know it's funny I've never heard in history class in school or from any other sources during my whole life that the way Vietnam was left was all of JOHN KERRY's fault. It seems I would've heard of this long ago Grady.
Why does it all come out now? That's odd to me.

have you ever heard that the victor writes the history....the anti-war movement won....they distorted what happened.