Why did the Pope dress up as Santa?

Originally posted by Gorman91
None of that matters if hell doesn't exist....

There is no hell in Christ, in the eternally creative space of uncontional love right across the entire spectrum of the very ground of all being and becoming, He is the governing dynamic of the universe itself, except maybe here of all places, and why?, because of the arrogant pride of man or the whiles of satan who wants to see us forever grafted onto the tree of the duality of good and evil by which men are reduced to animals, and the tree of life cut down? Can you replace the spirit of the love of God with another spirit? Of course not, since love is love, which is inconchorable, the very rock of all ages, only against which people or systemic evil (my mom always said that it's not the individual people wherein evil dwells but in systems) are destroyed or rendered nullified ie: obliterated into nothingness.

What's left over after hell has passed away - that's the flow of the living water of eternal life. There is no possibility for hell in it. One world or paradigm has passed away, and a new world re-born anew. This is the resurrection principal in action, which by it's very nature is transformative, and evolutionary.

Anecdote: So after making that post, went out for a coffee, and on return, what did we have but a group of people who'd been stuck in an elevator, for about 25 minutes no less. They were banging and shouting, the poor dears. So I shouted to them and we got them calmed down and the elevator company are dispatching a technician to free them, shouldn't be much longer, and then they'll be out, thank God!

Just seemed kinda synchronistic to me, given what we've been discussing here.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

You misunderstood the point, which involves conscious awareness, and the dissolution of sin and evil in the space of unconditional love, no tree of good and evil, of should and shouldn't, but a creative and playful and loving space, wherein we easily come to realize that which is happy and joyful and authentic, and that which is not, from what is unhelpful and fruitless, to what is helpful and fruitful.

Everything in life is fruitless outside the act of saving a soul. Nothing else truly matters outside of faith in Christ. From that, one prefects himself before the Lord.

And the three of life, it cant' be cut down, nor replaced - its the eternal tree of LIFE itself, again you misunderstand.

It's a relationship. We chopped down Christ, who is our tree of life. Now we must receive the fruit through the spirit.

Furthermore, we do not need to keep on crucifying Christ, or mocking him, or bullying anyone, there is no need for that, once we come into an increasing awareness of his love and compassion. He's not on that cross anymore, the Great Work the Magnum Opus was completed, as a free gift of incalculable value, yet unearned, unmerited as they say.

He is on that cross. At a specific moment in time. He will always be on that cross at that moment in time. That is the importance of a God outside of time. The sacrifice always is, because we can always access that moment. We are to place our sins at the foot of the cross, for he died for all eternity.

And there are no dead, only the living, from generation to generation. For God and to God all people are alive! However the one who is God no longer needs to reincarnate, so he is above all, and is all and remains, forever the all in all.

This is your own fabrication, not supportable with scripture. That which you invent cannot be heralded as truth.

There are dead. The Bible makes this point quite clear. It even ranks the dead. For example, the Nephilim can never rise again. Their death is finite, and their life extinguished.

There is no reincarnation. It says so. Our life is but this one. Then we die and are judged. You cannot quote scripture to back yourself up, then ignore scripture that says you are wrong. This is hypocracy.

There is no hell in Christ, in the eternally creative space of uncontional love right across the entire spectrum of the very ground of all being and becoming, He is the governing dynamic of the universe itself, except maybe here of all places, and why?, because of the arrogant pride of man or the whiles of satan who wants to see us forever grafted onto the tree of the duality of good and evil by which men are reduced to animals, and the tree of life cut down? Can you replace the spirit of the love of God with another spirit? Of course not, since love is love, which is inconchorable, the very rock of all ages, only against which people or systemic evil (my mom always said that it's not the individual people wherein evil dwells but in systems) are destroyed or rendered nullified ie: obliterated into nothingness.

There is hell outside of Christ. And there are those outside of Christ doomed for hell. Once again, the Bible even names some of them by name, called the Nephilim, seraphim. Those damned forever for their sins.

Yes we do bring down systems, but men still hold evil in their hearts from being part of the system.

yes, people can chop down the tree of life within and replace the spirit of God with something else. Say, money.

We all place in our hearts something of the most utmost importance. Perhaps this is your sphere within a sphere. And man take out the spirit of God from this inner depth of the heart, and place something else. Those people are damned. They will die, and if their hearts keep that thing that is not Christ within their heart, they will be in hell forever.


There do exist people in this world whom will never choose God. They will put in their hearts something of men or of evil, and they will die and they will go to hell. You cannot stop this, and the Bible, indeed Jesus, says this.

What's left over after hell has passed away - that's the flow of the living water of eternal life. There is no possibility for hell in it. One world or paradigm has passed away, and a new world re-born anew. This is the resurrection principal in action, which by it's very nature is transformative, and evolutionary.

The Hell will still be there. For eternity. The old Earth and Old heaven will pass away, but the saved and unsaved will remain. Nowhere is it stated hell will pass away. They will both be in their places as is fit.

Joy To The World!

Joy To The World

Joy to the World , the Lord is come!
Let earth receive her King;
Let every heart prepare Him room,
And Heaven and nature sing,
And Heaven and nature sing,
And Heaven, and Heaven, and nature sing.

Joy to the World, the Savior reigns!
Let men their songs employ;
While fields and floods, rocks, hills and plains
Repeat the sounding joy,
Repeat the sounding joy,
Repeat, repeat, the sounding joy.

No more let sins and sorrows grow,
Nor thorns infest the ground;
He comes to make His blessings flow
Far as the curse is found,
Far as the curse is found,
Far as, far as, the curse is found.

He rules the world with truth and grace,
And makes the nations prove
The glories of His righteousness,
And wonders of His love,
And wonders of His love,
And wonders, wonders, of His love.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

This is also why I find it silly to use Egyptian history for some sort of connection to Christianity. Egyptian myth and lore are direct imports from Arabia.

How? One name - Moses, who appropriated and redistributed all the "treasure" from Egypt. Again, you don't get it, how these things work, how kingdoms change.

reply to post by Gorman91

Originally posted by Gorman91

And there are no dead, only the living, from generation to generation. For God and to God all people are alive! However the one who is God no longer needs to reincarnate, so he is above all, and is all and remains, forever the all in all.

This is your own fabrication, not supportable with scripture. That which you invent cannot be heralded as truth.

There are dead. The Bible makes this point quite clear. It even ranks the dead.

29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30
But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
33 When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching.
~ Mathew 22

www.biblegateway.com...

reply to post by NewAgeMan


How? Because eons before Moses, Imhotep took designs, styles, and knowledge from Arabia and helped integrate it into Egypt. Also because most of their gods seem fairly similar to already existing ones to their east.

Before Egypt was a desert, it was a grassland. It was theorized that as the climate changed, many monotheistic beliefs merged together in order to create stability. The same is what happened in India. So we simply look at the parallels. It does not mean they are necessarily connected, but culturally they could be, and their gods do seem to be imported flavors that took the names of local gods.

29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” 33 When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching. ~ Mathew 22

Congratulation, you can quote scripture. So can I.

59 He said to another man, “Follow me.” But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.” 60 Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.” 61 Still another said, “I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say goodbye to my family.” 62 Jesus replied, “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.”

Scripture says there are dead. And that they are permanently dead until the judgement.

There is no replacing Christ, and no one compares to him.

It is we, not him, who have been imprisoned (by our own hand), and he alone who holds the key by which we are liberated in eternity, to be with him where he is.

He is the gate to heaven and the eternal life, and the gates of hell will not prevail against him.

Best Regards,

NAM

Originally posted by Gorman91
Congratulation, you can quote scripture. So can I.

59 He said to another man, “Follow me.” But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.” 60 Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.” 61 Still another said, “I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say goodbye to my family.” 62 Jesus replied, “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.”

Scripture says there are dead. And that they are permanently dead until the judgement.

He was talking about the spiritually dead, the idea being that you save whoever you can when you can while moving forward on the path of progress towards perfection, in recognition that some will not follow, who refuse to be resurrected from the dead, and since there's no time like the present, there is no time to go back!

reply to post by NewAgeMan


And what happens when those who are spiritually dead die?

Jesus tells us that only those whom believe in him shall pass on to greatness. But those that do not...

Matthew 10:28 New King James Version (NKJV) 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell

Sorry, there is no getting away from this fact. The death of the soul and body is possible, and their utter destruction too. No reincarnation.

I invite you to prove WHERE it says exactly that reincarnation is possible. Because Jesus never speaks of it.

REINCARNATION IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

THE BLIND MAN
As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" John 9:1-2, NIV
The disciples wanted to know the reason for the man's blindness. They offered two possibilities to Jesus. Either the man was blind because of the sins of his parents or he was blind because he was reaping the fruit of his own sins (karma). If our souls do not exist prior to this birth and if the man was born blind, then when or where could he have committed the sins that caused his blindness? His soul would have existed prior to that birth and he would have been engaged in a corporeal setting with other people to commit sins against or with. In other words, the blind man had a previous life. This indicates that the pre-existence of the soul was a prevalent idea among the disciples, otherwise how could they have asked such an unusual question? Neither does Jesus ask them where they got such a strange idea. He does not marvel that they have presented him with such a foolish concept. Where did they get this idea? As we have seen in the "blind man" scripture and other scriptures, the concept of reincarnation was understood by Jesus and the disciples. They employed the concept in these discussions in a matter-of-fact way.

ELIJAH'S RETURN
Elijah the prophet is believed to have lived in the ninth century B.C.E. At the point of his death a fiery chariot with horses of fire took him in a whirlwind to heaven and he was seen no more (II Kings 2:11). Four hundred years later, Malachi closed the last lines of the Old Testament with a prophecy from God stating that God would send Elijah before the "great and terrible day of the Lord" comes (Malachi 4:5). The Jewish people were expecting Elijah to return as the necessary preface to signal the coming of the Messiah.

The disciples all felt that Jesus was the Messiah but they were puzzled. Where is Elijah? The disciples asked the Master about this and he told them that Elijah had already returned as John the Baptist. The first discussion of this is in Matthew, chapter 11.
I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it. For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear. Matthew 11:11-15, NIV

The disciples asked him, "Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?" Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.
Matthew 17:10-13, NIV

The above scripture indicates that the disciples and Jesus believed in reincarnation. John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elijah. In an attempt to fit these scriptures into the orthodox view of one-life-only, some believe that Elijah never died as we know it because he went up in a chariot of fire, thus discounting John the Baptist as an instance of reincarnation. Their thinking is that Elijah did inhabit John the Baptist but it was not rebirth because Elijah had never died. For this "discounting" to really work, the Baptist would need to have returned in the same fiery chariot as a grown man. However, he was clearly placed in the womb of a human mother after which he had a very mortal and common birth. Jesus said he was "born of woman" and in Luke 1:13-17, an angel tells John's father, Zacharias, that John will be born to his wife Elizabeth... "And he will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah." Others use this last line to say that John the Baptist was under the power of Elijah but was not the incarnation of Elijah. However, Jesus says in no uncertain terms that John is Elijah and not simply an ambassador of Elijah's power, "This is Elijah... He who has ears to hear let him hear" (Matthew 11:14-15). Also, Malachi does not say that Elijah will appear by proxy but that Elijah himself will return.
WHO IS THE SON OF MAN?
Yet another discussion between Jesus and the disciples underscores their belief in reincarnation.
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets." "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Matthew 16:15-16
The flow here seems to be that if a prophet were to appear he must be the incarnation of one of the prophets from the past and so Jesus is asking the disciples who the people think has incarnated as Jesus. The idea of the reincarnation of the prophets is taken for granted and the sole point of the question is to find out who the multitudes believe him to be. These scriptures indicate that, at least to Jesus and the disciples, the concept of reincarnation was common fare. Herod also heard that others were saying one of the prophets of long ago had reincarnated. This again indicates that such a belief in reincarnation was common at that time.
Now Herod the tetrarch heard about all that was going on. And he was perplexed, because some were saying that John had been raised from the dead, others that Elijah had appeared, and still others that one of the prophets of long ago had come back to life. Luke 9:7-8, NIV

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Gorman91

 

Originally posted by Gorman91

And there are no dead, only the living, from generation to generation. For God and to God all people are alive! However the one who is God no longer needs to reincarnate, so he is above all, and is all and remains, forever the all in all.

This is your own fabrication, not supportable with scripture. That which you invent cannot be heralded as truth.

There are dead. The Bible makes this point quite clear. It even ranks the dead.

29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30
But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
33 When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching.
~ Mathew 22

www.biblegateway.com...

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

And what happens when those who are spiritually dead die?

It doesn't matter, they are already dead, but while they are drawing breath the divine spark remains, however deeply buried.

Originally posted by Gorman91
Jesus tells us that only those whom believe in him shall pass on to greatness. But those that do not...

Matthew 10:28 New King James Version (NKJV) 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell

How sad...this type of theology, robbing people of the opportunity to respond with love in kind. That is a terrible thing and brings to mind crusades and inquisitions..

DO NOT BE AFRAID!

Pope John Paul's favorite saying, his trademark if you will. He spoke to me by this, I acknowledge, and by saying that and promoting it, there was love there.

Do not be afraid.

He also focused a great deal of his time and energy towards young people - was that merely a recruiting tool, or perhaps there might have been more to it than that..

I got a sign, at the time of his passing, and indeed he did "speak" to me, and now here I am "noodling it out" so to speak.

Those who love Jesus, and who are meant to discover him, we know one another because we both hear his voice.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


The Blind Man:

Or, he had sinned in his own life. He could have been born blind for God's purposes, then stayed blind for his misuse of those purposes.



ELIJAH'S RETURN:

Elijah never died.

The spirit of Elijah. Not the soul. Hence, "the Elijah"

In revelations, two men come upon the Earth, and are killed. Then rise again. It is believed these two men are physically Elijah and Enoch.

After all, Elijah would have to be dead in order to reincarnate. He never died.

Of course, if you can explain why God would kill a man in order to obtain him, be my guess. Elijah, for whatever purposes, did not die. Hence he can not reincarnate.


We do not know where they are. But they are not dead.

reply to post by Gorman91

Like I said, there are no dead, because for God and to God, all people are alive. God is a God of the living, not of the dead.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


In order for there to be living there must be those that are dead. Otherwise the concept is a lie. God does not lie.

You did not answer my question.

Where is your concrete proof of reincarnation in the bible.

reply to post by Gorman91

No one can BE dead. Don't be foolish.

I think I'm done arguing with you now. There's still Christmassy things to do in preparation..

Regards,

Rudolf

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I think you don't want to argue because you don't want to face the truth.

You ought to.

Elijah is not dead. I ask again, how can a man who has not died reincarnate? But for his spirit obviously, for his soul still walks.

You can be dead. Jesus says so. I've even told you of those ancient ones that, for whatever reason, were punished with not even having a Resurrection. The nephilim, also called Rephaim.

Psalm 88 is very cryptic and interesting:

To the dead dost Thou do wonders? Do Rephaim rise? do they thank Thee? Selah.

Death exists. People die, and only once die. To be judged after in the Resurrection of the dead.

Before the flood, some even sinned so greatly that they have no Resurrection. They shall remain dead for all eternity.


If you do not wish to face this truth, do not claim to speak from it. For it will find our words, and correct us. And if you do not accept the reproof, it is not good for you in the end. I ask you only read the word and know it.

reply to post by Gorman91

You are so concerned with being right and trying to make me wrong and look bad in the sight of others that you've missed the whole point of this thread. A door was opened to you, and you did not see it. You talk of physical death, but don't recognize the promise of eternal life in the spirit.

"When will you learn how to cry?"
~ Jesus, to the temple priests..

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Because it is the word. And the good believer always watches for corruptions in the word. That is why it has lasted so long. Without people like me, people like you would have changed it into God knows what.

And you tell me when will I learn to cry?

Think of Jesus watching his promise being perverted.

And he never said that, btw.


Oh sure, your faith in him is enough to save you. But to what end? Faith is great. Truth is great also.

reply to post by Gorman91

You're right, he isn't quoted in scripture saying that. I say it then for him, and pose the question still..

You are unmoved, and there's nothing to move you! You just want to be right to my wrong, but you don't even love me, or Jesus. Just doctrine, the dead letter of the word, and you call that the "truth".

"I am the truth and the life!"

If I could, I would extend to you, through the bars of your imprisonment, the key that would set you free, which is the key to your heart, because you are a brother, and you are in prison, and there's no time like the present! Will you come out into the light of the experience of the living Christ?

reply to post by NewAgeMan

You're right, he isn't quoted in scripture saying that. I say it then for him, and pose the question still..

Forgive me, but you are not a prophet oh heralding Israel. You are a poster on the internet.

You are unmoved, and there's nothing to move you! You just want to be right to my wrong, but you don't even love me, or Jesus. Just doctrine, the dead letter of the word, and you call that the "truth".

I am moved only by his word, and on occasion, those that have proven themselves speakers in his part. You develop a sort of sense for when something is with him and not with him. You can never judge based off this feeling, for it is but a feeling. And to judge by it would be no different than judging by skin color. This is evil.

You assume reproof is not love. How then does a parent love their child if not through reproof? Love comes in many flavors. You have zealous for the Lord. Imagine that zeal made right in the word.

I do, not just say. I feed those I find hungry. I care for those I find in need. I reproof those in need of reproof. Has it benefited me ever? Not that I can see. But I do not see by the lords eyes. I see by my own. I can only pray.

I call truth that which he said and that which is clearly from what he has said. I am merely an observer of these things, and act on them when appropriate.

"I am the truth and the life!"

And if you believe you do have it. But don't expect it to come without reproof. Those that call on his name are made into what he wants as truth. He has given us his word to identity that truth.

If I could, I would extend to you, through the bars of your imprisonment, the key that would set you free, which is the key to your heart, because you are a brother, and you are in prison, and there's no time like the present! Will you come out into the light of the experience of the living Christ?

I have. Many times. Miracles have occurred, motions greater than mine have been felt, and I have done my best to go with them. I see the consequences of not, and then I cry. The key to my heart was already made in Christ. I've done my learning, and yet there is always more to learn. But to those that need to learn where I have, I will unlock that knowledge. Do not be so quick to assume reproof as hate. Have I ever said I hate you? I admit cocky at times. But I try to keep within brotherly love.