PAX Americana: Why all the US bashing? Is it really Just Bush? (Not a Mud Pit Discussion Please)

Originally posted by mincepie

As far as most of us can see, the US does what it wants, when it wants and "damn anyone who disagrees".

In a similar vein, the US does seem to pump out their very own version of history, especially the stuff about winning the second world war. Films which annoy us include U251 (The Brits captured it - not the US).

Couldnt agree more with these points mincepie, although I obviously don't think this is the stand point of all Americans but it does seem to be for the majority of Americans I have been in contact with.

But all this said the yanks are still our bested friends

Originally posted by masterp
I did not say 'look out for its best interests'. I said 'ruthlessly exploits'. USA exploits other countries, divides and conquers, supports dictatorships and revolutions etc.

Yes we do, but the governemnts of Europe are no different. Ask the citizens of India and Algeria. CHurchill tried to overthrow Mosadeq in Iran in an attempt to preserve thier colonial style oil interests. No country has not tried this. Was not Thachers son recently arrested for trying to overthrow a government?

(1) The fast food mentality is everywhere. Traditional food has given place to fast food, turning people fat with lots of problems, with much higher cost in health care.

Im not going to argue much about that I agree with you about the problems of fast food. However, look at it from another angle. No one is forced to consume the food that they provide. A family on a limited budged can feed the family and feed them well for a little money (not in alot of third world countries I realize). Personally I would rather eat the dirt in my backyard than go to McDonalds.

2) the idea that 'first is everythiing, second is nothing'. A little competition has never hurt anyone, but now we are at the other end, in the city jungles: it's your death, my life.

The first mentality is not exclusive to the Americans in any way. Take a look no further than the football riots.

3) values have declined everywhere due to constant feeding of sex and violence from USA, especially from TV.

Again, I maintain: If people do not want to watch, they can turn it off. Or change it. If they like the shows that they see that thier decision. A recent Britsh study showed that children could tell the difference between fake and real violence. We have critics here in the states about TV as well saying the same thing. My responce is that as parents, its up to US to teach morals and values, not the TV.

4) extreme capitalism saw top-level managers profits rise 3000% from 1980, where the average worker only got 200-500%. More and more people are considered poor in all countries every day that passes.

Im not sure how to respond to this one. We are responsable for the all the poor people in the world

5) Gun culture spreading like a plague.

Again, the gun culture is not necessrily American. Canada has one as well. As do several other countries. Again, Free will don't buy one if it bothers you.

6) the macho culture has already been spread in the previous decades, thanks to USA.

Alright you crossed the line on this one. David Hasselhoff is WAY mor popular in Europe than he ever was here. You created him, you deal with him

7) the division of world to west and east and the cold war brought unhappiness to many millions of people; lots of wars etc.

You can hardly blame the cold war on the US. Unless you want to be typing from a communist country right now. The cold war did bring unhappiness to alot of people, but so would have Soviet domination of the world.

Do you want more?

Yep, Bring it on

Originally posted by FredT

Alright you crossed the line on this one. David Hasselhoff is WAY more popular in Europe than he ever was here. You created him, you deal with him

No way! Germany created him, they can deal with him!

Sorry all my comments are appearing in the quote box ( i'm a noob ). Does anyone know how I stop this?

Thx

IMO, I think alot of people that frequent this site (and others) are fairly young (10-25).

IMO, this age of people (me being one of them) are kind of immature to politics and get their information and point of view from the T.V. and the internet and not from personal experience, job related experience, financial experiences, ect... Which would prove why Bush is President. Because more than 50% of the voters (People that can vote, and that are more politicaly educated) think hes a good leader, and why I would guess 80% of people on this site (Younger folks, alot of which are not voters and are "conspiracy mongorers") that relate Bush to conspiracys and such hate him.

Looks like my theory will be proven or debunked in a little while here...

Anyone want to bet he gets re-elected even though there is this overwhelming hate for Bush on this site? A friendly bet that is...

Originally posted by Regulator
Sorry all my comments are appearing in the quote box ( i'm a noob ). Does anyone know how I stop this?

Thx

Try the Faq:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by FredT


Try the Faq:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

So thats what the BB code is! Thx FredT

Originally posted by HumptyDumpty
IMO, I think alot of people that frequent this site (and others) are fairly young (10-25).

I'm not trying to be funny but that seems a little presumptious how did you come by this magic number?

Originally posted by HumptyDumptyIMO, this age of people (me being one of them) are kind of immature to politics and get their information and point of view from the T.V. and the internet and not from personal experience, job related experience, financial experiences, ect...

I think this is also a very presumptious statement just because these people may be younger does not necessarily mean they are ignorant.

Originally posted by Regulator


So thats what the BB code is! Thx FredT

See what happens when you try to be clever?

Regulator,

There is a thread on this site that was "Post your ages here" and most people were between these ages (Even the ages of the Mods suprised me, I think Valhal for example is like 15 years old???)... Ill look for the thread. But the ages of most of the members that are frequent seamed younger than I would think.

Also the average ages are prolly more like (12-30)... Id like to do a real study of this though.

And I did not say Ignorant... I said Immature. There is a huge diference.



[edit on 9/8/04 by HumptyDumpty]

Originally posted by HumptyDumpty
Regulator,

There is a thread on this site that was "Post your ages here" and most people were between these ages (Even the ages of the Mods suprised me, I think Valhal for example is like 15 years old???)... Ill look for the thread. But the ages of most of the members that are frequent seamed younger than I would think.

Christ, Im a fossil at 35. Time for the wheelchair

[edit on 8-9-2004 by FredT]

Nah.. I've seen Valhall's photo and she's definite somewhere in her early twenties!!

btw.. you might want to add your age to that thread, if it's important..
www.belowtopsecret.com...

Oh and here's the demographics,
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 8/9/04 by muppet]

Originally posted by FredT
Christ, Im a fossil at 35. Time for the wheelchair

I can get by with just a walking stick.
I'll only be 31 this month.

[edit on 8-9-2004 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by HumptyDumpty
Regulator,

There is a thread on this site that was "Post your ages here" and most people were between these ages (Even the ages of the Mods suprised me, I think Valhal for example is like 15 years old???)... Ill look for the thread. But the ages of most of the members that are frequent seamed younger than I would think.

Also the average ages are prolly more like (12-30)... Id like to do a real study of this though.

Ok thats some kind of evidence as to your idea, thats fair enough.

Originally posted by HumptyDumpty
And I did not say Ignorant... I said Immature. There is a huge diference.

Ok you didn't say it, but you implied that they were ignorant about politics.



[edit on 9/8/04 by HumptyDumpty]

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by FredT
Is it the fact that we have been on top for so long?
Is it our international policies?
Is it really just Bush?

Yes, it's Bush. He doesn't care what Republicans think, he doesn't care what Americans think, he doesn't care what anyone thinks. If you people are smart you will show him that what he thinks doen't matter. Vote him OUT. Just a friendly note from a friend next door.

It's definitely Bush. When Clinton was around I loved the US. If there was any other place I'd rather live it would've been the US. I know a lot of people say he sold out to China and stuff, but just the way he handled things, spoke to people and acted like he had an education and was capable of handling situations himself unlike Bush who needs Rumsfeld and Powell to clean up all his messes. It's not like I hate the US now, it's just that a lot of the stuff Bush has done has damaged the US's credibility and image.

AAARGHH - That's an example of exactly what I mean FredT

Now England did well ie. Chain Home System, Bletchley Park etc

. England is only PART of the UK, there's also Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland. It may seem petty but it drives us MAD when others (and it does seem to be predominantly those from the US) refer to us as England.

Yes we do, but the governemnts of Europe are no different. Ask the citizens of India and Algeria. CHurchill tried to overthrow Mosadeq in Iran in an attempt to preserve thier colonial style oil interests. No country has not tried this. Was not Thachers son recently arrested for trying to overthrow a government?

First of all, USA does it in a far wider scale. Secondly, France and Britain (and other countries) have done such things, but they stopped a long time ago. Thirdly, it is no excuse. If you want to be the leader, you should lead by example. Lastly, the purpose does not justify the means.

No one is forced to consume the food that they provide. A family on a limited budged can feed the family and feed them well for a little money

The system forces you. The 'fast food' mentality is not only about food...it's about everything.

The first mentality is not exclusive to the Americans in any way. Take a look no further than the football riots.

I never said it was exclusive to USA citizens. I said USA was the place that the mentality originated from.

If people do not want to watch, they can turn it off.

No, they can't. Too few people are strong enough to say it's a cloudy day, when everyone says it's a sunny one.

Im not sure how to respond to this one. We are responsable for the all the poor people in the world

You are responsible, indirectly (and some times, definitely directly). The wild chase of money has led to people being exploited by those who has the means of production.

And don't forget sweat shops all around the world. Nike sells its shoes at roughly the same price as 20 years ago, only now it costs 1/10 of what it used to produce them, because they are produced by poor people in third world countries, rather than USA citizens.

Again, the gun culture is not necessrily American. Canada has one as well. As do several other countries. Again, Free will don't buy one if it bothers you.

You've said many times 'don't do that since no one forces you'. But society does not work like that. Society is something greater than the sum of its parts. There is a lot of interrelations and interconnections between society's members.

In an idealistic world, I would be able to avoid being shot because I would not be part of the gun culture. But not in this world! any kid with a twisted mind has access to a gun, can enter a store, and shoot me to kingdome come!

You know why? because no one tought him how to think. No one tought him that people have rights. No one tought him that the pain and suffering he goes through is because of the selfishness and shallowness of the world. And this situation has been created and is perpetuated by the US culture, that wants people to be sheeps, uneducated, without being able to judge for themselves, only care about materialistic things, about what "we eat and drink"...

ou can hardly blame the cold war on the US. Unless you want to be typing from a communist country right now. The cold war did bring unhappiness to alot of people, but so would have Soviet domination of the world.

USSR is to blame as much as US.

Yep, Bring it on

Ok, but you originally sounded like there can be no argument against USA. Now that you have plenty, what are you going to say?

Originally posted by Regulator

Originally posted by HumptyDumpty
And I did not say Ignorant... I said Immature. There is a huge diference.

Ok you didn't say it, but you implied that they were ignorant about politics.

Again, I said Immature. I mean in the way of most of us dont remember Bush's Airforce Gaurd time, or some of the other things that are a huge part of both political partys campaign.

I also mean, that most of us dont pay house taxes, or RRSP's, or for Health care, or many, many other things that are huges parts of both political partys campaign.

Most of us dont have kids that are going to fight the war for the USA, and have to make the choice of who is a better leader at war time. Most of us have never spent any time in the army/airforce/marines. Most of us have never seen a big war in our times...

Alot of us dont have the stress of a family and trying to hold down a constant job in this economy. Most of us have not had to change professions an average of 5 times in our life. Most of us have no clue (Immaturaty) about buisness ownership.

Again I say immature, give us some time and we will be the mature parents and business men/women of our time that make up most of the voting population. Give us more time and we will make up the "swing vote" population that our Grandparents are experiencing right now.

I dont think that anyone on here is Ignorant, obviously you are not if your here reading this stuff... But we have to accept that we dont know much more that we are shown or told on T.V. or the internet. How this helps us make a better vote is a new topic altogether my friends.

Originally posted by muppet
Nah.. I've seen Valhall's photo and she's definite somewhere in her early twenties!!

oH SO SORRY VALHALL!

It was Nerdling that was 17, but like he said... "Age is but a number, if you display maturity then you'll find friends here."

cmndrkeenkid is 19.
infinite is 18
... and so on. But to be totaly fair, there seams to be alot of 30+ people and ATS writers/scholars/mods which I find awsome and healthy to these political talks.

Originally posted by HumptyDumpty
infinite is 18

And...?
You picking on me cause im young?!!? lol