EVERYONE Should Be Scared of This! EMP!

Originally posted by Propulsion
Every electronic piece of kit the US has in Inventory was tested and can withstand electromagnetic pulses of a certain strenght. Which depends on yield and distance the Nuke goes Boom.

They have highly paid people to think about these problems. And even if someone manages to wipe out most of the military Infrastructure of the US in a massive first strike, there are still ballistic Submarine undetectable and untouchable waiting under the Ice of the North Pole to take revenge for anything that happened. Research documents the US has on this topic are filling more Files than a single person could read in his entire Life.

........................and for the thousandth and last time.......................................that is why they will have decided to collapse the US by targetting it's CIVILIAN infrastructure via annonymous proxies! - after a yr or so of famine, civil and racial war, reconquista etc etc there is going to be no-one manning the subs or missile silos - the Chinese will come over in cruise ships to take your country!

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by superman2012

Originally posted by Ghost375
um, why would the EMP radius be larger the higher altitude that the blast occurs? EMP's aren't nukes...there's no fallout from EMPs. it's a direct blast that goes through most solid material as fast as it does gaseous material. The higher up it is, the less of a radius there'd be.

...but it doesn't go through Earth or follow the diameter of the Earth. It is line of sight only, so the higher you set it off, the further it will affect things.

Earths curvature restricts the radius where the blast will be felt, if its a high altatude blast.
-If you imagine a blast above earth atmosphere. The curved atmosphere will deflect a lot of the blast to the sides.

The same goes for low altatude blast, as by ground impact ammunition, The radius of the EMP is restricted to earth curvature.

Yes you are correct, but, it would also depend on how big of a blast and the altitude. They won't blast it above the atmosphere as that would take most of the charge away, but, most likely would do 2 or 3 blasts relatively close to the ground to make sure to cripple everything.

reply to post by camaro68ss


About 1-1/2 years ago I read a sci-fi novel by Halffast.................now known as David Crawford called, "Lights Out".

At the time the on line book was free to the general public so Mr. Crawford could gage how the public would like his book.

Well, I read all 611 pages of it...........monumental read. A simple story, but frightening.

The e-book was so good, I went out and also purchased a hard copy that is 598 pages.

If you have ever been in Target and watched two "civilized" women fighting over the last cabbage patch doll, try to imagine two families that haven't eaten in a week, off their medications that half of Americans are on, fighting over the last can of corn.

Now, I'm the first to have blast any cop that abuses his authority.............but damn, it's nice to know that if I dial 911 a cop will show up in under 2 minutes where I live.

Most people basically mean well. But, if we were pushed into a survival mode, read the book.

Now, folks like Obama, our Senators, Congressmen, their families, Tom Cruise, all have their nice little bunkers so they could ride out the storm over head, you know the one where we pions pick each other off.

I have read that Sweden and Denmark have real Civic Security Programs, not our duck and cover, but actual cities built deep underground for their citizens.

Our tax dollars go towards the many underground dumps (research that puppy) for our 1%. The psychopaths that are running our section of the world.

All I can say is after reading this book I made several changes in my life.

- I learned how to operate and shoot a gun accurately at a gun range
- Got a bug out bag ready for me and my dog (my husband who thinks ATS is a conspiracy nuts site also, I see secretly has a bug out bag in the back of his closet :@@
- I squirreled away some food
- Have made friends with and plans to evacuate should the need arise
- And have a deeper respect and gratitude for the little things each day we take for granted, like police, supermarkets stocked full of food, firemen, hospitals, garbage pick up.

Source: www.aina.org... Whenever the left-wing media wants to conjure up an image of Republican failure and incompetence, they point to Hurricane Katrina and the days it took the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to respond in any effective manner.

Forget for the moment the fact that President Bush and his team were hampered in their efforts to provide emergency assistance by New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin and Louisiana Governor Kathleen Bianco (both Democrats), and the fact that New Orleans actually had plans to evacuate the city in the event of a major hurricane that Nagin failed to implement.

Katrina was an afternoon thunderstorm compared to what could hit the United States in the near future.

After three days of table-top exercises last week in and around Washington, DC to simulate the impact of a major solar event or a nuclear electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attack, officials and experts concluded that our nation is woefully unprepared to handle the aftermath of such an event. And unlike a major hurricane, our nation's leaders would have just minutes of warning before it occurred, making evacuation of vulnerable populations impossible.

As I explained in last week's column, experts have been warning for some time that a major geomagnetic event or a nuclear EMP attack would mean "TEOTWAWKI" -- The End Of The World As We Know It.

But the table-top exercises conducted last week under the auspices of National Defense University and the state of Maryland's Emergency Management Agency, provided dramatic new evidence of our nation's woeful lack of awareness and preparedness for handling the aftermath of such an event.

"This is the potential catastrophic incident," said Michael Fisher, the head of Maryland's Emergency Management Agency (MEMA). "It's not a snow storm, it's not a rain event, it's not a building that had some bricks fall off when the earth shook. This is a potential catastrophic event that will change life as we know it."

Fisher cited the panic that gripped the city of Baltimore over the summer during the mild earthquake that hit Virginia, several hundred miles to the south. To counter the hysteria, MEMA used Twitter, Facebook, radio, and television to calm the population, and things gradually returned to normal.

But in the event of a major geomagnetic event or an EMP attack that takes down the power grid, none of those means of communicating with the public will be available.

"After a few days, not only are folks going to begin to take matters into their own hands, but the depth and breadth of our first responders -- that system is going to fail, also," he said.

In other words, there will be no going back to the way things were before. The snow will not melt, the sun won't come out, the flood waters won't recede, and help will not be on the way. Americans will be on their own, just as during the days of the Wild West.

One of the most dramatic impacts of a major geomagnetic event or a nuclear EMP will be on law and order. "Police officers have told us they would just go home to take care of their own families," said Dr. Richard Andres, an analyst with the National Defense University.

MEMA's Mike Fisher said his agency needs to start planning today to identify emergency supplies, back-up generators, and to organize staging areas for police and fire fighters who will have no means of communicating with each other beyond the human voice.

Even if first responders manage to locate food supplies and make them available at select locations thanks to back-up generators after a week or two of no power, citizens won't be able to use their credit cards because the banking system will still be down. "So keep some money in the sock drawer," Fisher advised.

One of the table top exercises gathered experts who gamed what would happen if the 300 large generators that form the backbone of the national power grid went down, an event many analysts believe is possible. This is the "catastrophic" scenario that the power industry and those lobbying on behalf of expensive cyber security programs don't want you to imagine.

David P. Hunt, an analyst with CRA, Inc., a Beltway security consulting firm, described the inability of the utilities and national command authorities to recover after such an event.

Industry representatives who participated in the simulations acknowledged the difficulties of "cold starting" power plants and the need for continuous power at nuclear power plants to maintain cooling of spent fuel ponds, Hunt said. Further complicating their efforts would be the lack of communications, since telephone and even radio networks would go down along with the grid, making it nearly impossible to localize back-up generators and the fuel needed to run them. This would lead to multiple "Fukushima" style events, with spent nuclear fuel irradiating large portions of the nation.

But if multiple nuclear meltdowns weren't bad enough, the "cascading effects" of a prolonged shut down of the national power grid might prove irreparable to society as a whole.

"Without power to refineries, pipelines and pumping stations, we may run out of fuel in a matter of days, shutting down our backup systems," Hunt said. "As we played out this scenario, most participants indicated we might reach a tipping point for food, water, medical and emergency services, beyond which recovery becomes problematic and would likely be measured in years, not months."

Hunt concluded: "the nation has not even begun to prepare for how to respond to such an event… It's not even on the conscious radar screen of the nation."

Dr. George H. Baker, a physicist who worked on the staff of the Congressionally-mandated EMP Commission, noted that while such a scenario was "bleak," holding such exercises was important because it highlighted the need for public education.

"We need to do a much better job at educating our citizens, public officials and first responders. A lot of the people who came to these exercises had no idea of the severity, the seriousness of the effects, that we could shut down the entire national power grid for extended periods," Dr. Baker said. "People didn't know that."

And yet, even as all this information is coming out, there are many in industry and even in the government who are playing for time and money to conduct additional exercises and simultations to determine how much damage would be done to power transformers by an EMP event.

The Idaho National Laboratory (INL) conducted the first real-world scale simulation of an EMP attack on the power grid on an isolated 13-mile segment of grid they own in rural Idaho. Because they were told not to destroy equipment, they only simulated the effects at a 10% load on the transformers.

"That's kind of like testing the engine of a sports car while it's at idle," one expert told me.

Even at that unrealistic low level, the INL engineers found that the transformers experienced 80-90% energy loss when blasted with a massive EMP wave. In other words, instead of transforming the energy, they absorbed it, creating heat.

"If the transformer is fully loaded, the temperature is going to be significantly higher than where we operated it," said chief test scientist, Scott McBride. "So if you are already operating hot, you only need a smaller incremental addition of heat to cause the break down of the insulation system."

I asked him if he had any doubt that in the event of a bigger event -- a major solar flare, or a nuclear EMP that lasted longer than the 8 second "blast" his simulators had used to test the power grid, that the transformers would blow up, McBride thought long and hard.

"If we could have a duration significantly longer than our 8 second pulse, yeah, we could cause that transformer to fail."

It was one of those "duh" moments. And yet, Dr. Alenka Brown, the National Defense University official who chaired the table top exercises, said the impact of a geomagnetic event on the power grid "is still debatable" and required further study.

As for an EMP caused by a non-attributable nuclear weapon exploded in the upper atmosphere by Iran or North Korea -- a scenario that clearly worried most of the participants in the table-top exercises -- Dr. Alenka Brown shut down all discussion. "We don't want people getting out duct tape and plastic," she said.

I'm going with Maryland's Michael Fisher. We know plenty already about the catastrophic effects of a geomagnetic or EMP event. The time to prepare is now.

"We are now 100% vulnerable to a major EMP attack or to a major geomagnetic event," said Rep. Trent Franks (R, AZ), sponsor of H.R. 668, also known as the SHIELD Act.

Rep. Franks blasted the Obama administration for spending more effort to rebuke Israel for building houses in its capital than on preventing Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon. Even worse, he said, was the failure to protect the national power grid, a vulnerability that only invited attack.

"Indeed, by decreasing our vulnerability, we may reduce the likelihood that terrorists or rogue states will attempt such an attack in the first place," Franks said.

There comes a moment in the life of nearly every problem when it's big enough to be seen by reasonable people and still small enough to be solved, Franks said. "I think you and I live in that moment, when there still may be time for the free world to address and mitigate the vulnerability that naturally occurring or weaponized EMP represents to the mechanisms of our civilization."

For less than $1 billion, we can harden the national power grid and prevent this type of disaster from shutting down our society. What are Congress and the Obama administration waiting for?

By Kenneth R. Timmerman
Frontpage Magazine

Ya know, just sitting here thinking about this upper atmosphere single emp theory, made me wonder with our grid being as patch worked and spliced together as it is, it wouldnt take much for the bad guys to detonate several small stategic emp's right on land causing the same if not worse effect.
Lets hope that doesnt happen.

reply to post by HappilyEverAfter


Now start thinking about those satellite platforms their putting up there now - we spend a lot more on warring and military than medical and scientific exploration............a lot more.

Once the military really gets a going in space they will be able to beam $hit down at any of us at will as well.

I fear other governments but I have a healthy dose of mistrust for my own as well.

In my humble opinion, there is only ONE "nuclear nation" that would even consider launching an atomic weapon. Their policy is "if we are going down, we're taking the whole world with us." I will refrain from mentioning this particular country by name...

The reason I believe nuclear war, and an EMP, is unlikely to occur anytime soon is because the aggressor can be fairly certain that there will be nuclear retaliation, which is a lose-lose situation. How can one achieve their strategic objectives if the majority of the world's population has been decimated?

It is therefore likely that any nuclear strike that does occur will be done so out of desperation, and not by one of the world's superpowers. It will be a very small country utilizing the "Samson Policy," which is in and of itself completely contradictory to modern biblical teachings...yes, I am talking about Israel, who openly stated that they would do this if Israel was to be captured or blown off the map. They have nuclear platforms around the world, mainly on naval vessels.

So while I do agree that an EMP would be rather catastrophic for a number of reasons, there is not a current nuclear threat level that would warrant any serious concern. Of course this doesn't mean we shouldn't work to prevent this from ever happening...So maybe we should be worried. I don't really know.

I had a dream about 4 nights ago, and I never share my dreams with anyone, much less on the forums, and they are usually nothing special...but I had a strange dream on this night. It was a slow-motion occurrence. The air seemed to be rippling, as for some reason I could see it. It became hard to breathe and I started losing strength and falling to the floor.

As I said, it was a quick event that seemed to be slowed down to almost a standstill.
Well, the reason it is semi-relevant is because right before I died in the dream, the first and last thought I had was that either Iran or Israel had nuked the US...I cannot remember which from the dream, although I know which I would pick as the winner if I were awake. So, just something I thought I would share, especially since I have only had one other dream in my life where I have died.

There are two basic ways to protect or harden items against EMP effects. The first method is metallic shielding. Shields are made of a continuous piece of metal such as steel or copper. A metal enclosure generally does not fully shield the interior because of the small holes that are likely to exist. Therefore, this type of shielding often contains additional elements to create the barrier. Commonly, only a fraction of a millimeter of a metal is needed to supply adequate protection. This shield must completely surround the item to be hardened.

The second method, tailored hardening, is a more cost-effective way of hardening. In this method, only the most vulnerable elements and circuits are redesigned to be more rugged. The more rugged elements will be able to withstand much higher currents. This method has shown unpredictable failures in testing, though it is thought it may be useful to make existing systems less vulnerable.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus


And there is only one country thus far to have used a weapon of mass destruction, not once, but twice.

The United States of America.

What does that tell you.

What goes around comes around and karma is a bitch only if you are.

William R. Forstchen wrote a book about this scenario called "One Second After" It is based on the premise that the US is nuked in the atmosphere with 3 nukes rendering the entire USA electronics grid useless. Apparently it scared some of the people in our government so much it has been cited on the floor of Congress as a potential scenario that all Americans should be worried about. (I believe Newt Gingrich has made statements regarding this book as well.)

From what I have read (not just in this book) an EMP will only wipe out electronics that are in "line of sight" meaning once the EMP blast reaches/passes the curvature of the planet it disperses.

As far as I know, what this means is the higher up a nuke is detonated the worse the EMP effects will be.

Of course I am not an expert by any means, but I have read the book and the implications are quite jarring.

I would recommend this book to anyone.

Stockpiling small electronics (walkies, internal automobile electronics, etc) protected in Farrady cages can only be a good idea.

One neato thing I thought was cool is the fact that old ham radios with vacuum tubes would still be functional as well as older vehicles (pre-internal computer chips that regulate the functions of the automobile) would also fare fairly well in the event of an EMP event.



EDIT*** FYI your guns will still work. Just sayin.

reply to post by camaro68ss


I read an article talking about an EMP possibly knocking out the whole USA, but didn't understand how that was possible so thanks for clearing that up for me, also I wouldn't have even considered the fact that the nuclear reactors would be in such a dire straights I guess I just assumed that they had contigency plans in place for events like that (yeah dumb I know) Just glad I have a truck thats pre electronic start era lol!

Originally posted by RN311
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

I read an article talking about an EMP possibly knocking out the whole USA, but didn't understand how that was possible so thanks for clearing that up for me, also I wouldn't have even considered the fact that the nuclear reactors would be in such a dire straights I guess I just assumed that they had contigency plans in place for events like that (yeah dumb I know) Just glad I have a truck thats pre electronic start era lol!

yeah, scary. an EMP would take out the power grid and all back up generaters at a nuke plant. with now power the reactors would over heat and meltdown. now thats all 65-70 nuke plants across the USA all melting down at the same time. its scary to think about.

The only locations that are safe is the bakersfield in california north to portland. those are the only areas that dont have nuke plants and are up wind.

east coast is a death zone for nuke plants

reply to post by AllUrChips


Emps are not nukes, they are electrical magnetic impulse blast, to take out communication, and what most dont realize is that there is an underground network put in for this scenario. Also EMPs are more effective then nukes for you can launch them from space, with IBCMs but most countries dont have they capability, less then 7 counties could pull this off but that narrows it down to just who it was. Probably a good use for a false flag ops.

Some here talk about having a pre this and pre that vehicles to avoid an EMP pulse. Unfortunately, there are going to be a lot of people with a lot more guns who will take away that running vehicle. Also, you won’t get far, HI ways, streets; roads will be congested with millions of other vehicles that won’t run. So you’re kind of screwed either way. Your best hope is to live out in the country. If not, you’re pretty much up $h!t creek without a paddle.

Originally posted by Ghost375
um, why would the EMP radius be larger the higher altitude that the blast occurs? EMP's aren't nukes...there's no fallout from EMPs. it's a direct blast that goes through most solid material as fast as it does gaseous material. The higher up it is, the less of a radius there'd be.

Thank you telling them EMPs are not nuclear...

china is not going to do sh*t to the US. They need us as much as we need them. What good is a money slave when you have annihilated it? The US could just as easily destroy their nuke before it left china air space and have a counter launch hit them before all of their nuke-missile debris hit the ground.

So many emp experts here, to bad very few bothered to even google their claims.

Unless an emp also melts all metal we would not be close to the stone age, I guess it would be the steelage.

Any emp powerful enough to do widespread damage is nuclear, those scary super emp, still nuclear.

Non-nuclear emp devices are a lot less powerfull and have a narrowly focused area and without the geomagnetic effect.

So the scenario of an emp set off in space would still be a nuclear device and still need to be launched from a missile or rocket.

A lot of our military isn't even on us soil so in order to disable it they would need to nuke/emp the middle east.

The US also has lots of allies, I am sure they would let us borrow or buy any and all equipment to get things running again.

From what I read the most likley candidate for receiving an emp attack is South Korea. There is speculation the nuclear bomb tests North Korea did that were joked as being duds are actually the same type of low yield nuclear explosions used in the super emp devices.

Originally posted by TheOven
So many emp experts here, to bad very few bothered to even google their claims.

Unless an emp also melts all metal we would not be close to the stone age, I guess it would be the steelage.

Any emp powerful enough to do widespread damage is nuclear, those scary super emp, still nuclear.

Non-nuclear emp devices are a lot less powerfull and have a narrowly focused area and without the geomagnetic effect.

So the scenario of an emp set off in space would still be a nuclear device and still need to be launched from a missile or rocket.

A lot of our military isn't even on us soil so in order to disable it they would need to nuke/emp the middle east.

The US also has lots of allies, I am sure they would let us borrow or buy any and all equipment to get things running again.

From what I read the most likley candidate for receiving an emp attack is South Korea. There is speculation the nuclear bomb tests North Korea did that were joked as being duds are actually the same type of low yield nuclear explosions used in the super emp devices.

Everyone seems to be talking about how China is going to EMP America into the next ice age.
Here’s one thing they forgot to mention once the Chines parachute in…

(Reuters) - The United States has 90 guns for every 100 citizens, making it the most heavily armed society in the world. U.S. citizens own 270 million of the world's 875 million known firearms, according to the Small Arms Survey 2007 by the Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International Studies. If the Chinese think for one second that Americans are going to go down without a fight, they have another thing coming.

Cheers...

There would not be a WWIII, DUMMASS!!!!
The world is done!!! after that EMP. So, What are you really trying to say?

This was a waste of digital space.
This would make a great dooms dy scenario for a movie. you should take that story, that IDEA to DISNEY And it may get you an Oscar or something.

( ~ ) Shenanigans!!!

I would be scared. But the fact that we in the US can do the same makes it a even battlefield.

Failed attempt at fear mongering OP.

reply to post by camaro68ss

One encouraging thought. NASA currently is creating something called a Solar Shield that would detect a CME (which could cause an EMP) coming from the Sun, figure out where it's going to hit, determine which power grids are most vulnerable, and then"unplug" those grids. You would think if we knew missiles were on the way, we could do the same thing. Unplug the grid. It would cause major blackouts for a huge areas, but that would be better than the alternative. Of course our personal devices would still probably take a hit, but our main infrastructure would still be intact. A encouraging thought. Let's hope the Military and NASA are talking to each other.