Obama: Limited Gov't That Preserves Free Markets 'Doesn't Work. It Has Never Worked

reply to post by kauskau


Yeah, and your economy is tanking as well.

No thanks.

reply to post by macman


i dont say its perfect but we have more regulation and its better than in your country..the problem is that the big corporations are too free to do what they want...THATS the problem...and its called : free market.

Originally posted by indigothefish
reply to post by Misoir

 

i don't know what to make of this because it seems anytime obama says something, anything, he does the exact opposite of it. hopefully these statements he's made won't break that pattern? ahaha

it's a cosmic joke how the american people have been duped.

in all seriousness though, obama is simply incorrect and only trying to use his skills of rhetoric to justify the coming police state and gigantic controling government that is to soon come.

Only the people who ever believed Obama were duped. The rest of us tried to warn...but oh well...

reply to post by kauskau


Germany's economy has not even fully recovered yet since World War II, let alone the fact that Germany's credit rating is about to take a dive just like the US did. Free Market or not, you guys are in the same boat as the rest of the EU and the US.

Originally posted by Shugo
reply to post by kauskau

 

Germany's economy has not even fully recovered yet since World War II, let alone the fact that Germany's credit rating is about to take a dive just like the US did. Free Market or not, you guys are in the same boat as the rest of the EU and the US.

thats right. But all the structures that carry the characteristics of "regulation"...are better. FACT!
As i said: study our education sytem and health system..since we have a "free market" approach there..it all goes down..! THats the problem.
I still wonder why you people are so afraid of regulation while the free market..is in secret way regulated by the 1 percent!!!

reply to post by kauskau


There's no fact in that, all it proves is that regulation doesn't work either. I'm not saying a flat out free market works, but I'm not saying regulation works either, and Germany is case in point. The entire global economy is failing, it has nothing to do with regulation or free market.

Originally posted by Shugo
reply to post by kauskau

 

There's no fact in that, all it proves is that regulation doesn't work either. I'm not saying a flat out free market works, but I'm not saying regulation works either, and Germany is case in point. The entire global economy is failing, it has nothing to do with regulation or free market.

i agree. We need something new...We need the best of BOTH worlds. Capitalism and socialism!

Originally posted by kauskau

Originally posted by Shugo
reply to post by kauskau

 

There's no fact in that, all it proves is that regulation doesn't work either. I'm not saying a flat out free market works, but I'm not saying regulation works either, and Germany is case in point. The entire global economy is failing, it has nothing to do with regulation or free market.

i agree. We need something new...We need the best of BOTH worlds. Capitalism and socialism!

We have had a mixed economy at best for some time. When people say it doesn't work, which part doesn't work? The Socialist part or the bourgeoisie Capitlaist part? Or how about the Keynesian part? It's really amusing how people say Capitalism doesn't work, when we've been flirting with Socialism since FDR. You say that socialism is working in Germany(but you don't want to call it socialism for some reason) but yet we are hearing that your economy is struggling.
Maybe that 100,000 debt for every person in Germany isn't working like you thought it was.
Some of us don't want socialism because we have already seen what the socialist programs we already have are doing to us.
We have to revamp Social Security, which isn't secure because govt bureaucrats raid the fund for other things, it's not invested properly, and the people who paid in 30 years ago require way more to survive than they did 30 years ago....inflation is a pesky critter.
The more jobless you have, the less people pay in to the system. It's a mess.
Now that govt completely screwed up SS, now people want govt to do the same thing with health care. Some people never learn.
Instead of saying, we screwed up with SS, let's not do the same with healthcare, they say oh we need to socialize healthcare too. This is insanity.

This is what wikipedia says about the German economy

The German economy practically stagnated in the beginning of the 2000s. The worst growth figures were achieved in 2002 (+1.4%), in 2003 (+1.0%) and in 2005 (+1.4%).[43] Unemployment was also chronically high.[44] Due to these problems, together with Germany's aging population, the welfare system came under a lot of strain. This led the government to push through a wide-ranging programme of belt-tightening reforms, Agenda 2010, including the labour market reforms known as Hartz I - IV. In the latter part of the first decade of 2000 the world economy experienced high growth, from which Germany as a leading exporter also profited. Some attribute the Hartz reforms to the high German growth and declining unemployment, while others contend that it resulted in a massive decrease in standards of living, and that its effects are limited and temporary.[44]

The nominal GDP of Germany contracted in the second and third quarters of 2008, putting the country in a technical recession following a global and European recession cycle.[45] German industrial output dropped to 3.6% in September vis-a-vis August.[46][47] In January 2009 the German government under Angela Merkel approved a €50 billion ($70 billion) economic stimulus plan to protect several sectors from a downturn and a subsequent rise in unemployment rates.[48] Germany exited the recession in the second and third quarters of 2009, mostly due to rebounding manufacturing orders and exports - primarily from outside the Euro Zone - and relatively steady consumer demand.[44]

en.wikipedia.org...

But of course, wikipedia is renowned for it's liberal patronage.

Originally posted by Shugo
reply to post by Fractured.Facade

 

I should bring up the fact, that the American public is given more choices on paper than what the media allows broadcast. It's all about Republicans and Democrats on TV, but there are many options on paper, people just don't utilize those options like they should.

I agree. But it happens because people think that watching MSNBC or Fox News, they are informed. So who is to blame? The voters? Or the Media who brainwashes? It's the never-ending question, and it makes me sick either way. (Not trying to hijack thread)

So what does the Supreme Narcissist proposed? Socialism. Gee, how's that working? Umm, let's see the old Soviet Union- went bankrupt, people were all poor.. old Eastern Europe- right, they couldn't wait to through off the yoke of socialism,....Cuba,,,right,,,follows right into the heap of history....Even modern day China realized that they had to institute capitalism to get their economy in the shape it is in now.
Yep, Obama sure does know what works.....
Why does anyone even listen to him anymore? He has destroyed the economy, destroyed several countries, to get to one person, and wants to invade a few more, such as Syria and Iran. He has absolutely NO understanding of economics, doesn't understand that you cannot spend your way out of a deficit. He just doesn't get it....any of it.

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl
Well, I talked to the founders and they said Obama was wrong.

No one can deny it...Obama's agenda is clear. He is definitely wanting to "fundamentally transform America", as he said during the last election.

Seriously, have you ever heard of someone so arrogant? He knows better than our founding fathers. Maybe he could go somewhere else and found something, then. Warren Buffet can join him, and become Secretary of the Treasury. Buffett can make the first donation.

edit on 7-12-2011 by GeorgiaGirl because: Clarify pronouns

Oh, please, can they take Soros and Chris Matthews?

Thank you.

Great thread my friend. snf

Also, some awesome replies..

Stars all around!

Originally posted by Misoir


A few radical potheads do not know more than brave men who fought a revolution against an empire, much like the one you are running.

edit on 12/7/2011 by Misoir because: (no reason given)

a lot of our founding fathers were potheads themselves

reply to post by Misoir


Obama is trolling.

Ignore it.

reply to post by Misoir


After that speech, i'm starting to believe that the governments are not puppets as we think they are. Hope is not lost for humanity.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Misoir

 

The founder were wrong on many things...slavery, not letting women vote, killing off the natives.

Why is it so surprising to you that people have differing opinions with the "founders"...they are irrelevant today...they aren't gods to be worshipped.

In todays world, the founders would be viewed as extremist idiots...I doubt if they would even get 1% of any vote.

Why would you think they would be voted for, by people of a completely different time?

To call them extremists because they adhered to social norms of their time is quite puzzling.

Indeed they were revolutionaries, but in fact if they were to be considered "extremists" then they would have to have been supporters of anti-slavery, letting women vote, and not killing off the natives.

You have your logic in reverse, my friend.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Indigo5

 

He clearly was referring to the Free Market which he said doesn't work and never worked

His full transcript here.

www.politicalruminations.com...

He praises the free market...he was talking about tax breaks for the wealthy during economic downturns having never worked historically.

There is no debate there. It is literally what he said. The OP pastes two disparate quotes together and one of them about him not liking free markets is fabricated and directly the opposite of what he actually said.

What this OP proposes is either dishonesty or literal delusion, both idealogically driven.

It freaks me out a little bit how much un-reality people will embrace to stroke their worldview. You can dislike President Obama, disagree with every one of his positions or policies...all while not making up fabricated stories or fictionalizing quotes.

the free market is the greatest force for economic progress in human history. It’s led to a prosperity and a standard of living unmatched by the rest of the world.

That is literally from the speech where the OP contorts the Presidents quotes.

www.politicalruminations.com...

Anyone who enjoys consuming BS can carry on though....

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by Misoir

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Misoir

 

In todays world, the founders would be viewed as extremist idiots...I doubt if they would even get 1% of any vote.

That would say more of us than it would of them.

Yes, it would say that we have evolved in our thinking...and they have not.


Am I to assume that you support everything they stood for? Do you agree with them that women had no right to vote? Do you agree that slavery was just fine?

Or do you disagree with the beloved founding fathers *GASP*....blasphemy

edit on 7-12-2011 by OutKast Searcher because: (no reason given)

I wish some people would do further research on matters, especially one so important--like the 3/5 clause in the Constitution. The Founders were NOT pro-slavery:

"...The 3/5ths clause was put in the Constitution not to let everyone know that the slaves were not really human, but because if they were put in as 100% human, slavery would have been a lot harder to get rid of. That is the reason the founding fathers put that in the Constitution, to help get rid of slavery. Here is an explanation of it...":

wiseconservatism.com...

There are many many good articles about the real reason for the 3/5 clause online. Google is your friend.
-------------------
OP, I think a lot of people have awakened to the fact that taxing more and spending more is NOT the solution to our country's economic problems! Thanks for sharing this important information, though. I will definitely pass it on...

reply to post by Indigo5


More of the same bs he's been saying for 3 years plus. More of the same class warfare..."inequality" from bourgeois capitalism. Why can't you see through that veneer? And he blames technology for loss of jobs. More typical socialist bs. I guess what we just need is more Unions to make those evil Capitalist pig bosses pay. More regulations. That ought to do the trick. Less technology....get rid of your iphone then.
You could just get rid of your dishwasher while you're at it, cause the Good Lord knows all those dishwashers put housewives out of a job.
He talks about democracy too. Oh how Capitalism and trickle down economics hurts democracy so badly. Did he FORGET we are a REPUBLIC, Mr CONSTITUTIONAL LAWYER!!!!

It leaves everyone else rightly suspicious that the system in Washington is rigged against them, that our elected representatives aren’t looking out for the interests of most Americans.

Who is he blaming here? Surely not hisself, nay, it must be Paul Ryan and the Tea Party conservatives who won't let him be the reincarnation of FDR.
I suspect he is bouncing off the OWS demands for a DIRECT DEMOCRACY! This guy is no slouch, even while he is off golfing and vacationing in Hawaii, he has the little people doing his work for him.

Some sound surprised by this latest pearl of wisdom by our Dear Leader? We have got to remember this remark is coming from a guy with an ego the size of Mount Everest. He thinks he knows better than the men who fought and defeated the mightiest empire in the world in tattered rags and with worn out muskets, and later got together to draft one of the finest government documents since the Magna Carta during a horrendously balmy summer of 1787? The principles and ideals of these men have prevailed to the present day not only in the US but other countries who who seek individual rights and liberties. Yet, our President thinks he knows better and that his plans somewhat trump theirs?

If the Founders where so wrong, then how come the European Union who have modeled their government around some of the main ideas the President spouts off about at this town meeting and the next is about to fall off a cliff? Furthermore, the US is in horrible shape by some of the ideas he talks about that they have implemented as well. An example could be the ever-burgeoning economic catastrophe that is the entitlement programs. The President can believe anything he wants for all I care. However, to think that an all intrusive government is some benevolent and a wise caretaker of the middle class is ludicrous.

Just as people are imperfect beings, so to is any government. I am all for the delicate balance between government and the economy, and not one having sole supreme power over the other. It seems easy in principle but very difficult in practice, and that is something the US or any nation for that matter should aspire to. The best a government can do is to allow the middle class to keep as much of their money as possible and to let them make decisions on their own instead of some bureaucracy making the decisions for them. Just my two cents...