Welcome to the Equator!! Everywhere on Earth !! USA-UK-Canada

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by luxordelphi

 

The boat is within degrees of horizontal. The vertical Moon is within degrees of vertical.
Both are normal.

That's all you've got? Is your hat in your hand - can't see in the picture.

reply to post by luxordelphi

You don't understand.
The not vertical Moon is just as normal as the not horizontal Moon.

very easy ? it is the end of feb. in north america where should the sun be rising and setting ? south of the eq at the eq or north of the eq ? right now where is it rising and setting ?

Wow this topic is full of fail...

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Colonel: I believe you were elsewhere engaged when I decisively and eloquently showed that the moon is not seasonal.

No, the Moon is not seasonal, but the Sun is! The position of the Sun in relation to the Moon is what determines the Moon's illuminated region.

The Sun does NOT rotate perfectly above the Earth's equator all year round. It only rotates directly above the equator 2 times a year, and one of those times is my birthday, the March equinox, and the other is the September equinox.



My B-Day is March 21st..

So this website is not entirely correct:
www.people.vcu.edu...

You would be on the equator where the Sun goes straight up from the eastern horizon and straight downward toward the western horizon. The Moon phases then lie on their side.

The only time the above quote is true is in March and September.

So, if you were on the equator in March or September, you would see a perfect boat shaped Moon. Any times before or after that you would either have to be North or South of the equator to see a perfect boat moon.

by what you just posted the sun should be setting just south of west if you live in the northern hemisphere correct ? at this time of year, go out today and look where it is setting really look drectly west where is it setting ????????

reply to post by comppwizz


Yes, in this time of year the Sun is setting just south of west when viewed from the northern hemisphere.

You can find the azimuth of the sunset and sunrise from any location on any date at SunCalc.net

Here is a calculation from Los Angeles:
SunCalc.net Los Angeles


It's almost March, so every day until March 20 and 21, the sun sets closer and closer to the equator (directly west). Set the above SunCalc.net date to March 20 and you will see the Sun sets almost directly west, and rises almost directly east. Set the date to Sept 23 and see that it also sets directly west and rises directly east. Those are the only two times in the year it does that.

If the sun sets south of west (like now), then you would need to be in the northern hemisphere to see a perfect boat moon. If the sun sets north of west ( like between march 21 and september 23 ) then you would need to be in the southern hemisphere to see a perfect boat moon.

Originally posted by UFOGlobe
No, the Moon is not seasonal, but the Sun is! The position of the Sun in relation to the Moon is what determines the Moon's illuminated region.,,,

It may not be "seasonal" in the exact sense that the Sun is. However, the Moon lies (more-or-less) on the ecliptic plane just as the Sun does, and the Earth is tilted relative to that plane (and, thus, tilted relative to the location of the Sun and Moon.

It is the relative differences in the that tilt compared to the Sun that gives us our seasons, and those seasons are due, basically, to the location of the Sun in our sky -- a location that is dependent on the relative tilt.

The location of the Moon in the sky is also dependent on the relative tilt of the Earth compared to the Moon (a relative tilt that varies seasonally) when comparing any specific phase of the Moon in one season with that SAME phase of the Moon in another season. Therefore, for example, a first quarter Moon in the Winter will be in a different part of the sky than a first quarter Moon in the Summer.

The Moon may not be seasonal in the exact same sense as the Sun, but the location in Earth's sky of any specific phase of the Moon does vary with the seasons.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Phage

 

Here's the boat moon in Kansas. (smile moon, horned moon, wet moon, boat moon, Cheshire moon, horizontal moon)



science.nasa.gov...

That moon isn't even perfectly horizontal in the image, so what's your point? We can't see the horizon or any marker to actually measure what angle that moon was at.

Here's the vertical moon (the one you said is at the poles) in Kansas.



www.flickr.com...

Oh, and btb, Kansas is not on the equator either. Kansas is much much closer to 45 degrees north latitude than it is to 0 degrees at the equator. So, if I'm correct, you're basically saying that you can see any kind of a tilt on the moon anywhere on earth at any time? And that this has always gone on.

Also...Kansas is not at the poles - just to be clear.

edit on 29-2-2012 by luxordelphi because: clarify that Kansas is not at the poles

That moon is absolutely no where near being vertical as far as rotational degrees and is probably somewhere between 60 and 70 degrees. Kansas has a min/max latitude of 37 to 40 degrees. That means the crescent moon could appear as vertical as 63-68 degrees on the northern edge in the summer and as horizontal as 9-14 degrees at the southern edge in the winter.

That is, of course, using the maximum variant of 28.5 degrees (23.5 degree tilt of the Earth plus the 5 degrees from the moon's 18.6 year period)

Also, if you look at that bright little dot closer to the horizon and directly in line between the crescent of the moon and the sun just below the horizon - that's one of the planets. Which means the moon is pretty much dead on the ecliptic in that image. So how is it wrong again?

Oh...and btw..the 40th parallel link I sent you earlier...Kansas is completely below 40 degrees north because the 40th parallel is actually what makes the northern border between Kansas and Nebraska. You've already established that you seem to think that anything below 40 degrees north gets moons that to you are indistinguishable from horizontal crescents in the winter.



Did we just hit the big ole reset switch here or something? Do we really need to go back again and tell you how inane these equator comments are? Mentioning the poles and a vertical crescent isn't going to be much better because it's going to vary throughout the year for the exact same reason as the horizontal ones do.

ok so you have show where it is supposed to set but where is it setting go out this evening and look where im at in N.C. its setting just north of west

Originally posted by luxordelphi

Originally posted by ColAngus
The top photo is from March. The bottom from September.

Capiche?

Colonel: I believe you were elsewhere engaged when I decisively and eloquently showed that the moon is not seasonal.

You can't get enough of Colonel Angus.

Admit it.

Originally posted by comppwizz
ok so you have show where it is supposed to set but where is it setting go out this evening and look where im at in N.C. its setting just north of west

Maybe your compass is broken.

I took this picture just for you a few minutes ago while driving. The road I am on points directly West, and you can see my truck's compass also says "W". I am near Los Angeles.



The sun is exactly where it should be....

You want to make any more absurd claims?

p.s. I blocked my face out of the image...

Alex Collier told her to say these things.

He is now panhandling on the internet including Facebook.

Because he has no substantial career, unless spewing out BS pays, Oh, my bad, apparently it does!


But you see the lesson we learn from all of this is fantastical assertions are believed to be actual, while scientific data is shunned. Believe what you wish, you will never be my boss anyway, have a good dream tonight.

reply to post by Dashdragon

So now you're acknowledging what we've been explaining on several pages of many of Cherub's threads, yet your rebuttal of those simple facts is to go on about the moon/ecliptic not going directly overhead in Las Vegas

The moon can never be overhead in Las Vegas because the ecliptic and 5 degrees either side never goes overhead in Las Vegas. But wait...IT DOES NOW!! The moon can be overhead on the equator - the place where the smile moon, boat moon, wet moon, Cheshire moon, horned moon, bowl moon and (cat moon as one poster so cutely described it) appears.

clearly shows that the moon was tilted at 17 degrees and not perfectly horizontal.

No...there have been plenty of pictures (see Kansas recently) that show a perfect boat and no 17 degrees so stop with that already. I've given my opinion on Stellarium constructs and rulers - not needed if you're looking up.

The human eye and average perception is no where near a precise instrument of measurement. You yourself had claimed that the 17 degree image was a perfect boat originally.

You, who have difficulty with the moon being out in the day, are not a competent judge of these matters. There never were any boats, almost boats etc. except at and near the equator. Now there are boats galore at diverse latitudes. Something that looks like a smile, whether slightly curled or not, is an equatorial phenom. Not Las Vegas. Except now, as a sign of the times.

Again, just to be clear, Las Vegas is not at or anywhere near the equator. Neither is the U.K., Seattle or Poland. Got it?

That moon isn't even perfectly horizontal in the image, so what's your point? We can't see the horizon or any marker to actually measure what angle that moon was at.

Don't need it to be perfect. Because it's the difference between being almost horizontal or almost vertical. One happens at mid-latitudes and one happens at or near the equator. Where am I if I'm in Las Vegas? I'm not at or near the equator.

That means the crescent moon could appear as vertical as 63-68 degrees on the northern edge in the summer and as horizontal as 9-14 degrees at the southern edge in the winter.

This is total you know what. Kansas always had a vertical moon and the equator always had a horizontal one. If you're going to start interchanging them like some kind of a card shark - don't expect me to pay attention.

That is, of course, using the maximum variant of 28.5 degrees (23.5 degree tilt of the Earth plus the 5 degrees from the moon's 18.6 year period)

This maximum variance happened in 2006 - we're headed to minimum now and better than half-way there.

Also, if you look at that bright little dot closer to the horizon and directly in line between the crescent of the moon and the sun just below the horizon - that's one of the planets. Which means the moon is pretty much dead on the ecliptic in that image. So how is it wrong again?

I'm starting to think you are a troll. That picture: 'Headed West in Kansas' is NOT wrong. That's the right one with an ecliptic that is not overhead in Kansas hence no boat moon. The other picture - the smile (or leer) is wrong - the boat moon can only happen if the moon can be overhead which it clearly cannot in Kansas.

You've already established that you seem to think that anything below 40 degrees north gets moons that to you are indistinguishable from horizontal crescents in the winter.

This is your own idea. Seattle, the U.K. and Poland are well north of 40 degrees. Your fixation on 40 degrees is not mine.

Your last paragraph doesn't make any sense so it can't be responded to.

reply to post by ProudBird

You've already established that you seem to think that anything below 40 degrees north gets moons that to you are indistinguishable from horizontal crescents in the winter.

I think you're missing the point. Point is - this didn't used to happen but it happens now and is, in fact, escalating. And just to be clear - I established nothing about 40 degrees anything - you all are fixated for obscure reasons.

Further, go to any Mormon site you like and read about the smile moon on the equator. Further, Utah is not near the equator.

The rest of your pictures and links prove my point. The smile moon, that used to be an equatorial phenom is happening at diverse latitudes far from the equator and is escalating.

Your second post is absolute nonsense. The moon is not seasonal. The boat moon is not seasonal - it is equatorial. The ecliptic goes overhead at the equator. When you see the boat moon at your latitude go look and see where the ecliptic is. (That's the band of stars with the zodiac to which Ophiuchus has now been added.) Let me make a prediction here - pretty soon we're going to be adding Orion because there was a near miss by the moon in the past week.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by luxordelphi

 

You don't understand.
The not vertical Moon is just as normal as the not horizontal Moon.

Yes I do understand. The horizontal moon - wet moon, Cheshire moon, boat moon, all the light at the bottom moon - is normal at the equator. The vertical moon is normal at 45 degrees north latitude. The sun and moon and ecliptic are never overhead in Las Vegas. Because they are never overhead, a smile moon is not possible in Las Vegas.

The sun and moon are not side by side nor are they up and down. The sun is alot further away than the moon. That is why the smile moon is a phenomena of latitude i.e. the equator. Las Vegas is nowhere near the equator.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by ProudBird

 

You've already established that you seem to think that anything below 40 degrees north gets moons that to you are indistinguishable from horizontal crescents in the winter.

I think you're missing the point. Point is - this didn't used to happen

apollomissionphotos.com...
It happened in this photo from 1971. Yes, it used to happen, you just didn't notice.

The smile moon, that used to be an equatorial phenom

The above picture is from Cape Canaveral, nowhere near the equator (hell, it's north of the tropic of cancer, but we'll get to that in a minute). It is not merely an "equatorial" phenomenon. Field rotation happens for any alt-az observer not located at one of the poles.

The ecliptic goes overhead at the equator.

LMFAO! Does it now? I can also think of some other places where the ecliptic "goes overhead" and the moon is also inclined to the ecliptic. Tell me, how high does the sun get when standing on the tropic of cancer on the day of the summer solstice for the northern hemisphere? Please, study basic astronomy before making claims like this.

reply to post by luxordelphi


Can you clarify something for me?

Is it now always a boat when crescent in Vegas? Or does it vary with it appearing more vertical at times?

Thanks.

reply to post by luxordelphi


My gosh....so much fail. Despite ALL of the accurate information being given. And, to claim that no one (but yourself) is noticing something "amiss"? Think about that, for five seconds:

.....this didn't used to happen but it happens now and is, in fact, escalating.

Just to be as clear as can possibly be......the photo link above is being posted fully here, in the post, for convenience and clarity:



The above image can be seen at this website (scroll about one-quarter down the page):

apollomissionphotos.com...

That is Apollo 14. The date is 30 January 1971. So, strike ONE on the claim that "it didn't used to happen...."

This was taken at Cape Canaveral ('Cape Kennedy' at the time -- since re-named). Apollo 14 launched on 31st January. So, we are seeing the Moon waxing from New Moon only days prior. The photo was taken after sunset. We are looking West. Because the photo was taken at night, the Sun has already set, the Moon to follow.

You can open your Stellarium (you did download the program, right??) and set the date to 30 January 1971. You set the location to Merritt Island. You go to the sky view menu, and check the box that says "Scale Moon" (so it will show the phases). You go to the search box menu, and type in "moon".

Now, adjust the time, on the bottom of the Stellarium screen. You have normal speed (real time) forward, pause and fast forward and fast reverse controls. With the Moon as the "search" item, your point of view will follow the Moon, centering it on the screen. Click anywhere, and control the screen by holding the mouse button and slewing as you wish.

When you see the Moon setting, and nearing the horizon on the evening of 30 January 1971 you will see that the orientation of the crescent Moon will look exactly as it does in the photograph above.


Stellarium is a program that does nothing but "crunch numbers"...the laws of orbital mechanics do not change, they have not changed, and they will not change in the future. The Stellarium program of today matches exactly the photographic evidence of the past. Therefore, any representations seen in Stellarium today match up with the view, today. And so into the future.....

Strike TWO. (One more, and your claims are busted).

And just to be clear - I established nothing about 40 degrees anything - you all are fixated for obscure reasons.

40° is noted because it's rather close to YOUR latitude. I would have thought this was obvious?
And, um.....speaking of "fixated", BTW .... this campaign to insist that something is "wrong" with the Moon isn't on my head.....

Further, go to any Mormon site you like and read about the smile moon on the equator. Further, Utah is not near the equator.

So? The "boat" Moon can be seen from the Equator too. SO what?? That isn't the point.

The rest of your pictures and links prove my point. The smile moon, that used to be an equatorial phenom is happening at diverse latitudes far from the equator and is escalating.

WRONG! It is not ever, ever (in recorded Human history) solely an "equatorial phenom". Period. As proven above.

Your second post is absolute nonsense. The moon is not seasonal. The boat moon is not seasonal - it is equatorial.

Wrong again! (...strike THREE.)

Have you not taken my suggestion, and visited the Planetarium there in Las Vegas? They seemed to have a very reasonable fee to attend.....only $6 per adult for admission. The orientation of the crescent Moon relative the horizon, given a specific and constant latitude of viewing, IS seasonal. On an annual basis. The cycle of the phases of the Moon do not coincide exactly with one year of the Earth's orbit. This must be causing your confusion?

Let me make a prediction here - pretty soon we're going to be adding Orion because there was a near miss by the moon in the past week.

I have NO idea what that (..."a near miss by the moon in the past week.") even means. BUT.....as I have read on many other astronomical websites, it is true that the orientation of constellations, as viewed from a specific latitude, vary annually as well. for the same reason that the angle of the crescent Moon does also...as mentioned above.


Is this simple concept impossible to comprehend for some reason?

reply to post by ngchunter

It happened in this photo from 1971. Yes, it used to happen, you just didn't notice.

Hey ngchunter...finally an argument - 10 pages later. So what about your Cape Canaveral photo? Cape Canaveral is at 28.24 degrees north latitude and guess what? The moon can be overhead as far north as 28.5 degrees north latitude. So it's in under the wire, isn't it? Not going to happen often but it sure can happen once in a blue moon.

www.travelmath.com...

The rest of your post is just trolling (I'm getting to be an expert on that.) A review of the thread is in order before you start accusing me of making claims.

Originally posted by ColAngus
reply to post by luxordelphi

 

Can you clarify something for me?

Is it now always a boat when crescent in Vegas? Or does it vary with it appearing more vertical at times?

Thanks.

edit on 4-3-2012 by ColAngus because: (no reason given)

Truly I know better than to reply to you and encourage your vagaries and yet...tonight, the moon would be a full on boat if it was still a crescent which it is not. Last night it was looking more tilted but not nearly tilted enough. The night before it was a full on boat - in fact I thought it was going to head right on into Orion (it was close!) But we're past that event now for a couple of months. We'll see what the future brings and hey, Ophiuchus got added to the zodiac - why not Orion? In fact, why not include all the constellations in the zodiac as the moon continues to careen across the sky.

Did that answer your question oh innocent one?