Europe is done. Europe's AAA club put on credit downgrade watch (Germany too)

reply to post by 5mok3r


Maybe,maybe not. The current System is only holding together because People still believe in it (currently,there is still the believe that Countrys can pay off their Debt,which is impossible if you do the Math). If it crashes in the most painful way and the Majority of the Human Population (or whats left of it) realizes that it just doesn´t work in the long run,than the Rich can try whatever they want to bring it back.

The People will remember the suffering they had to go trough because of their foolish belief in a System based on imaginary Money.


And as much as i wish for Humanity to finally learn its Lessons,i know that it probably won´t happen in my Lifetime. I´m not that naive to expect us to realize our Mistakes before doing them multiple Times...

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Shenon

 

We humans were mean to be resilient, but a system of control has made humanity become confuse about its own abilities to prosper after chaos.

It is a reason why we are still around as a species is because we are crafty and innovative.

I say a big crash will just shake the big fat cats in power, the regular hard working Joe will keep doing business as usual and will always find a way to get buy.

IF a big crash happens it will be done purposefully by them.
IF a big crash does not happen it will be done purposefully by them.

reply to post by Jepic


*sigh*

You can plan ahead as much as you want,but one mistake,one unexpected complication or a Rival who wants all the Power to himself means you can throw your carefully crafted "Plan for World Domination" right into the shredder.

Even if you have alot of Power,there is always something,or someone,who can and will trash you. Happens all the Time.

Originally posted by Shenon
reply to post by Jepic

 

*sigh*

You can plan ahead as much as you want,but one mistake,one unexpected complication or a Rival who wants all the Power to himself means you can throw your carefully crafted "Plan for World Domination" right into the shredder.

Even if you have alot of Power,there is always something,or someone,who can and will trash you. Happens all the Time.

Not with these guys. They don't make mistakes.

And even if they do, they'll just use the mistake in favour to get back on track. And they will make it because there is no one that has enough power to stop them on their tracks.

Originally posted by Pseudonaut
Enough with the sensationalist headlines. In what world do you live that a one notch downgrade rating equals "done."

A downgrade is a bad thing -- there's no debate there. But, OP, when alarmists like you exaggerate things to nuclear levels such as this, you're become as much of the problem as the bankers who got us into this mess in the first place.

bzzzzzzt thanks for playing.

From the onset of the global recession the early indicators were spot on with respect to the collapse of the PIIGS and subsequently the euro. This is all coming to fruition at an accelerated pace. Many of the alarmists and nuts appear to be seeing their efforts pay off. This is a huge story.

Besides, your on a conspiracy site, the watered down, feel good stuff is available on MSM

brill

reply to post by Vitchilo


More proof that governments should be in control of the supply of money. Nations should not have to lend money and pay interest to private banks. This is economic tyranny and the slavery of everyone.

Applause to you, SteveR. You are exactly right. All Central Banks should be either closed down or taken over by the appropriate Government. Governments should then issue all moneys and base those issues on precious metals, grain, etc, actually held by that country.
Corporations should pay to that Government a levy of, say, 50% of gross profits earned in that particular country. Each country should apply a salary cap that goes across the board and that includes shares, etc.
There should not be such a thing as 'Dual Citizenship'. You are either a citizen of a country or you are not.
Lobbying of any member of Government should be an offense punishable by a mandatory jail sentence.
The charge of 'Treason' should be beefed up and rigorously applied. (Particularly to politicians)
I could go on describing my own personal utopia, but, perhaps I have said enough.

Something I have never grasped - how is it even remotely possible that entire countries who have huge revenue from tax incomes - have to **lend** money from banks. It truly boggles my mind. All this made up money so has no value - just numbers on a screen, as someone else has said - it can all be reset and no one is physically any worse off.
Maybe a crash would be a good thing - make people realise what is real and what is not.
I wonder if it will ever happen - its been talked off so much,

Perhaps the standard for performance is too high these days.

I had a friend once who said that whenever he met a girl that didn't meet his standards, he'd lower his standards.

Maybe an A+ today looks like an A-.

Just sayin.

reply to post by Vitchilo

No big surprise here but...
as much as I would like to see it... I'm afraid the EU still isn't "done"... yet.
EU stocks opened only ~1% lower at the asian stock exchanges this morning due to rumours about the possible downgrading.
The US lost its triple-A rating from S&P this summer and isn't "done" either... is it?
What is "done" anyways?

The biggest effect this will have is that the EFSF will also lose its triple-A rating (which would be a good thing from my pov) ...IF France and Germany are downgraded at the end of this week.

And some feel they can use this to their advantage as the threat to push through the reforms they want.

Norbert Barthle said the warning could help Mrs Merkel and French President Nicolas Sarkozy to push through their plans for greater budget discipline.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by 5mok3r
I fear the power rats will be one step ahead of any meltdown

Duh? They are. They've been doing it for thousands of years.

reply to post by eldard


I think this was the reason why folks from Niburu came over here to dig gold. Their central banks were at brink of total melt-down, and return to gold standard was imminent. But since their banks were leveraged 62x times or more, there were not enough gold in their whole planetary system to save the game.

Joke aside. The cost of collapsing euro, and actually checking the balances would be end of the economy as we know it. For this reason, Federation is the only way forward.

And this has been the target all the time. United States of Europe. This should be no news to anybody knowing the forces and folks behind Euro...

Update : S&P Warns It May Cut Most European Banks, European Union Itself

S&P PLACES LARGE BANK GROUPS ACROSS EUROZONE ON WATCH NEG - BNP, SocGen, Commerzbank, Intesa, Deutsche... pretty much everyone.
EUROPEAN UNION'S AAA RATING MAY BE CUT BY S&P
In short: Commerzbank AG, Natixis S.A., Credit Agricole S.A., Eurohypo, Deutsche Bank L-T counterparty credit rating, Deutsche Postbank AG, Intesa Sanpaolo,Societe Generale L-T counterparty credit, UniCredit SpA, Credit Du Nord L-T counterparty credit, Comapgnie Europeenne de Garanties et Cautions, Credit Foncier de France, Locindus S.A., Rabobank Nederland, CACEIS, Banca IMI SpA, Ulster Bank, Banque Kolb, Bank Polska Kasa Opieki S.A. ratings may be cut by S&P.

Basically, S&P just told Europe it has two days to get the continent in order or else.

And there goes the dynamite.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Finally!

I can strut around in my "I TOLD YOU SO" suit. Shouting "I TOLD YOU SO" while handing out fliers that say "...ah well, you get the idea ;-)

reply to post by Vitchilo


You know what that means right? either start printing money and cause inflation or keep stealing the nails out of the countries foundations to pay for the interest in the global debt.

Or keep bailing out with money that doesn't exist and create more debt, somebody needs their Christmas bonuses this holidays and by God they will.

I been sarcastic.

There Euro Summits are priceless. Do you think they know they are jerking each other off on the deck of a sinking ship?

I fear they don't. I think i'd prefer an evil master plan to the developing incompetence apocalypse :-)

Last Minute Summit Mutiny Threatens The Future Of The Euro; And Why A Wholesale S&P Downgrade Of Europe Will Be Devastating

A day when everything that could go wrong for the euro and eurozone has just gotten worse. Hours away from the completion of the summit, whose failure will unleash a nuclear bomb of serial downgrades by S&P (let along expose frauds such as Sarkozy and Olli Rehn who claim, yet again, that the world will end a solution is found), The Telegraph writes that the summit is already in tatters after a rebellion and threats by Finland, Holland and Ireland are poised to scuttle the summit. Louise Armistead reports that 'Finland’s grand committee said decisions made by the ESM – the eurozone’s permanent bail-out fund set for launch in 2012 – had to remain unanimous, and not changed to the “qualified majority” that French president Nicolas Sarkozy and German chancellor Angela Merkel have agreed. The Finns are backed by the Netherlands, which fears proposals to withdraw veto powers from the ESM is an erosion of democracy and would make it vulnerable to funding bail-outs without recourse. Meanwhile, the Irish want to block plans for the “convergence and harmonisation” of the eurozone’s “corporate tax base”.

The Euro has less than 24 hours to live.

reply to post by Vitchilo


France and Germany will press the other members to make an agreement with cost of loss of little independece and state soveregnity and Euro will be saved but little weakened