Europe is done. Europe's AAA club put on credit downgrade watch (Germany too)

Well well well. SP saving America's fiscal nightmare by directing all the attention to Europe...

S&P About To Put Europe's AAA Club (Including Germany, France And Austria) On "Creditwatch Negative"

Here it comes. From the FT: "Standard and Poor’s has warned Germany and the five other triple A members of the eurozone that they risk having their top-notch ratings downgraded as a result of deepening economic and political turmoil in the single currency bloc. The US ratings agency is poised to announce later on Monday that it is putting Germany, France, the Netherlands, Austria, Finland, and Luxembourg on “creditwatch negative”, meaning there is a one-in-two chance of a downgrade within 90 days.

Kaboooooooooooooooooom.

Update : Confirmed :
Rumor Meet News. S&P To Put All 17 Euro Nations On Downgrade Watch

S&P Said to Place All 17 Euro Nations on Rating Downgrade Watch

Everyone on downgrade watch...

This is the step I have been watching out for. The part that tells me I need to start stocking up some food and water..

If you have just one of those countrys lose there AAA, they will by law, not be able to fund any more euro bailouts. Not like they can now, but if they did lose there AAA, then there really up the creek

Considering the major banks just got downgraded to an A- five days ago, I'm not surprised by this one bit.
seekingalpha.com...

One big house of cards crashing down.

Enough with the sensationalist headlines. In what world do you live that a one notch downgrade rating equals "done."

A downgrade is a bad thing -- there's no debate there. But, OP, when alarmists like you exaggerate things to nuclear levels such as this, you're become as much of the problem as the bankers who got us into this mess in the first place.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Explanation: S&F!

S&P recently downgraded the top 4 Australian Banks as well!

They did this not because Aussie banks are failing but purely because they [the lenders] can't afford lending to anybody at that rate anymore!

Australian Banks Stay Upbeat Despite S&P Downgrades (by Ross Kelly DECEMBER 2, 2011, 1:06 A.M. ET) [online.wsj.com]

Personal Disclosure: Its gotta sux really bad when the banks that lend to the other banks can no longer afford to give discounts to their best customers! :shk:

reply to post by Pseudonaut

But, OP, when alarmists like you exaggerate things to nuclear levels such as this, you're become as much of the problem as the bankers who got us into this mess in the first place.

Well remember how Italy was all safe 6 months ago and now it's blowing up? Ya.

Let's remember that Deutsche Bank, the biggest bank in Germany, has 2.3 trillion in assets... with 1.6% in capital... they are leveraged 62X... MF Global wasn't even leveraged that much! Germany's GDP is 3.3 trillion... what ya think happens when Deutsche Bank blows up? Germany losing their AAA will hit Deutsche Bank like a ton of bricks...

And let's also mention that Commerzbank is on the brink too, the German government already have a part in it... and last week said they were preparing to take it over...

And let's not forget about Credit Agricole that nearly blew up last week but didn't because of coordinated FED/ECB/Japan central bank/Canadian central bank to flood the markets and banks with $$$... This will kill them...

Also let's mention that the only ``saving Europe plans`` was based on the fact that France/Germany and all were AAA... if they are not anymore, say bye bye to any ``let's save Europe plan``...

As Camaro said, no more EFSF plan to save Europe.

All this is like a slow motion car crash. You know what the outcome will be, you just have to wait for it. 2012 won't need a comet/asteroid strike, Mayan calendars depicting doomsday or any of the other "disasters". They're doing a great job of wrecking the place all on their own.

reply to post by Afterthought


Why laugh about this? It isnt good and will effect millions of people.

Originally posted by Pseudonaut
Enough with the sensationalist headlines. In what world do you live that a one notch downgrade rating equals "done."

A downgrade is a bad thing -- there's no debate there. But, OP, when alarmists like you exaggerate things to nuclear levels such as this, you're become as much of the problem as the bankers who got us into this mess in the first place.

If one notch is cut, they will no longer have the ability to lend to there Euro counter parts. it does equel done!

reply to post by boymonkey74


I'm laughing because the "Too Big to Fails" are going to be getting a reality check.
Trust me, I'm fighting the good fight against BOA right now. Seeing them getting downgraded made my year.
I do feel bad for the little guys, but they've been suffering way before any of the downgrades started. This time around, the Good Ol' Boys are in for their sucker punch.

^The little guys will always be perpetually dependent on the big guns. Sad but true. But anyhoo, does this mean those glorious German cars will become cheaper?

reply to post by Vitchilo


I tell you what, this sound like the same scare tactics that Wall Street used on the congress whores when they forced them to sell the 2008 bailout to the tax payer and voters and hell they did and will benefits, the only losers were us the commoners.

To me this sounds like the last ultimatum of "EU finish the take over and enforce a dictatorship and be over with" after all the Fed money is to keep the rich rats fat in the US no over sea.



I been sarcastic my friend.

The top six on negative watch???

Try all 17 Eurozone countries!

S&P Is Examining All 17 Euro Zone Countries' Credit Ratings

Standard & Poor's is examining the credit rating of all 17 euro zone countries for a possible downgrade — not just the top six — as the continent's debt crisis lingers, a person familiar with the matter said.

S&P is likely to make an announcement on putting the euro countries on "credit watch" after the closing of markets in the U.S. on Monday, the person said.

reply to post by surrealist


I must admit I was all for joining the euro zone but Iam so glad we did not, but still it's gonna have a knock on effect for the whole world.

Originally posted by Pseudonaut
Enough with the sensationalist headlines. In what world do you live that a one notch downgrade rating equals "done."

A downgrade is a bad thing -- there's no debate there. But, OP, when alarmists like you exaggerate things to nuclear levels such as this, you're become as much of the problem as the bankers who got us into this mess in the first place.

Wow, read what you are saying here and think about this, when countries get downgraded people demand more interest for their principle that leads to larger deficits in the downgraded country which in turn leads to another downgrade.

It's called a self reinforcing cycle and it's what caused Italy's healthy bond market to go into danger zone in just a couple of months.

The whole house of cards is coming down. Whats harder to predict is the order in which they fall. The Eurozone is toast already. Will the UK go before or after Japan?

Whats horrifying is the extent to which the mainstream news is doing the "its all fixed, nothing to worry about, buy stocks, get out and shop' angle.

That is going to cause a lot more pain than need be.

PwC says eurozone will be 'unrecognisable' by year end [2012]

A series of orderly defaults among the eurozone's most indebted countries would trigger a deep and prolonged recession in the region and a double-dip in the UK, analysts at PricewaterhouseCoopers have concluded.

The region would fall into a debt-deflationary spiral, gross domestic product would fall by a cumulative 5pc. The debt restructuring could wipe €800bn (£686bn) from private sector wealth in the eurozone.

The knock-on effect would be a second recession in the UK, with a 1pc fall in GDP in 2012 followed by a 0.2pc fall in 2013.

That is just one of four possible scenarios examined by PwC in a report entitled What next for the eurozone?

The accountancy firm goes further than Bank of England policymakers and Office for Budget Responsibility forecasters who in the past month have shied away from quantifying the impact of the various possible outcomes of the eurozone debt crisis.

However, PwC falls short of measuring the possible impact of a total disintegration of the monetary union, concluding this to be unlikely.

Other scenarios examined are monetary expansion and a Greek exit from the euro, which were the most likely outcomes according to PwC, as well as a new currency bloc, which PwC said was less likely.

PwC said that whatever happens over the coming weeks, the eurozone will be unrecognisable by the end of the year, and a "harsh adjustment to a new fiscal reality" will be unavoidable.

"Expect surprises next year. We are currently experiencing unprecedented levels of uncertainty in the eurozone," said Yael Selfin, head of macro-consulting and one of the report's authors."

"The eurozone that re-emerges next year is likely to be very different to the one we know today and the implications for business within and outside this region are enormous."

The actual report goes on to state that the US will also feel adverse impacts due to capital flowing into the country and appreciation of the dollar on trade, extending the trade deficit.

This desn't even take into account what is happening to the global economy more broadly, particularly the slowdown in China and elsewhere.

reply to post by Vitchilo


BOOOM,BOOOOOOM... MUHAHAHA


Sorry,had to let that out.

I was expecting that this will come sooner or later. There is no way Germany (and other AAA Nations to a lesser extend) would have remained AAA with the Task of bailing out Europe on its own.

Lets hope those aren´t just empty Words (i´m still waiting for the French Downgrade,which should have been done already) so this whole Europe BS can end once and for all before it gets even worse.

Lets all hope that the December 9. Summit fails so we can finally say "Goodvye Euro"

Why do I get the feeling that some people on here want it all to fail? Don't you realise it will effect the whole world and not just europe?