No, America's unemployment rate is not 8.6 percent

reply to post by nixie_nox


actually, the agriculture wammy was connected to the wall street wammy...
much the same way as the MF Global wammy might begin to affect the agricultural sector now. thus, the congressional agricultural committee subpoenas Corzine.

“Given that futures customers, particular those in agriculture, were affected by MF Global’s collapse it is imperative that we hear directly from all those involved,” said Ranking Member Collin Peterson (D-Minn.).

www.agri-pulse.com...

and, yes, people killed themselves during the depression...

and well...got a feeling that most of the jobs that we've gained has been in the form of temporary, seasonal jobs at your local wal mart or toys r us and the like.

Just count the number of people using food stamps, free clinics, social programs, subsidized housing, etc... that should give you an idea of what kind of condition their country is in (condition being the all-important word here).

Unemployment rates are moot in the grand scheme of things... The true picture is whether or not a country's citizens are actually able to make ends meet, employed or not. You can have every citizen in your country working, but if those people still can't make it from one paycheque to the next, you've got a country in deep economic trouble.

Everybody working at Dunkin' Donuts for minimum wage is not what a country makes... it's the obvious end result of a disappearing manufacturing base. That same manufacturing base that built the country up in the first place.

A country full of minimum wage earners will not keep a consumer market-based economy afloat.

The fact of the matter is:
No more manufacturing base = no more country to keep alive and prosperous. If you're having to import more than you can export, don't expect the books to stay in the black.

reply to post by CranialSponge


You really hit the nail on the head . You are absolutely correct and make a very good point. If I may....... take what you pointed out and add what are skewed unemployment numbers and i think you have the means for a collapsing economy.
The manufacturing base has been eroded to the point where we pretty much don't produce much of any value for the export market and as you said there goes the balance sheet.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by Henley

 

Unemployment numbers factor in holiday hiring. They are not that stupid. Just like they also edge the numbers for temprorary hiring in spring for landscaping work.
They estimate these numbers outside of the usual norms.

No they don't. Please go to this link at the labor statistics site and read. They state that they don't consider those numbers when they post the percentage.
labor stats

Do you all remember when Unemployed meant someone of working age who didn't have a job?

Yeah, I remember that too... but now, Unemployed means something different.... Those who are receiving unemployment benefits.

It is an excellent point about the loss of manufacturing... and it's also the knife that cuts both ways.

These companies outsource their labor to nations where they can pay their workers cheaper than here.... but they still sell their products in the "First World" because that's where the money is.....

Or, at least.... where it used to be.... Turns out that a nation that doesn't have jobs, can't afford to purchase these products.... and the underpaid labourers in these other nations cant afford them either.

This is what is known as "Baking your Bread, in the Fires of your house"

Taking advantage of the energy of the collapse of the Western Economies, to gain handsome profits, despite the fact that you are destroying the very economy that you depend on for your products to be sold, and the very economy that would redeem all of the money that you are "Earning"

It's just sad how short-sighted these multinationals are.

The Logical End Result of any company that is Mandated by law to perpetually increase it's profits, is global slavery.

(Second Line)

Originally posted by sonnny1



Sorry if Infowars isn't to your personal liking. Heres some more,dont be to picky.)

Skousen: Actual Unemployment Rate Is at ‘Great Depression Level’

Black Unemployment At Depression Level Highs In Some Cities

‘Depression-level’ unemployment dampens spirits in the Glades

edit on 3-12-2011 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-12-2011 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)

These sources contradict each other. That makes it very hard to understand what you are trying to say here. Do you maybe have some data that is not destroyed by your own sources?

Originally posted by lonegurkha
Don't believe the figures for jobs created for the last two months, or for this month for that matter. This happens at this time every year as retailers hire allot of extra employees for the holidays. The jobs are temporary and most will disappear come january when the holiday return season ends. At that time the retailers will get rid of most of the people hired for the holiday rush. With a spike in unemployment come january.

This happens every year but most people never notice. Most of the people who will be laid off come january won't be counted either because they won't have worked long enough to qualify for unemployment.

edit on 12/4/2011 by lonegurkha because: (no reason given)

yes yes.

and i wonder how many of the temporary holiday hires are on govt assistance.

they don't get insurance either.

Originally posted by neo96
Between the number of welfare over 50 million and 25 million unemployed that the real number leave it up to the good ole "government creative accounting" to see the real number which is over 75 million out of work and underemployed.

At any rate what ever numbers the Goverment passes out are complete bs.

Originally posted by dannotz
So does anyone think they can put together some data and come up with a roundabout percentage that represents the unemployment?

I know it's got to be much higher than 8.6 percent.

with 160 million as the "employable" base,

neo96's numbers bring the "pseudo-unemployment" number to;

46%

Originally posted by Algernonsmouse

Originally posted by sonnny1



Sorry if Infowars isn't to your personal liking. Heres some more,dont be to picky.)

Skousen: Actual Unemployment Rate Is at ‘Great Depression Level’

Black Unemployment At Depression Level Highs In Some Cities

‘Depression-level’ unemployment dampens spirits in the Glades

edit on 3-12-2011 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-12-2011 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)

These sources contradict each other. That makes it very hard to understand what you are trying to say here. Do you maybe have some data that is not destroyed by your own sources?

How hard is it to understand?




Find your own figures,if these arnt to your liking.

I find it hard to fathom that the numbers are not higher. Just based on seasonal employment. Construction, landscape, lawncare, mainly shut down by November. It is odd that the unemployment went down?
I would love to know what jobs were created, more McDonald's BS?

source

The nation last month hit a post-World War II record in the average
duration of unemployment. That figure rose to 40.9 weeks in November,
up from 39.4 weeks in October, and longer than nine months, Friday's
data showed.

Not surprisingly, the same report also showed an increase in long-term
unemployed Americans. The number of people unemployed for six months
or more, measured as a percentage of all unemployed, rose to 43% in
November from 42.4% and hovered near its record high of 45.1% reached
in May this year.

The nation still had a backlog of more than 13 million unemployed
workers in November, which is an improvement of over a half-million
from October. That figure, however, doesn't count the 2.6 million
people who have given up looking for work. Nor does it count those
with part-time jobs who need full-time pay: Their numbers stood at 8.5
million in November, also an improvement of nearly 400,000.

All told, the underemployment rate - which includes part-time workers
who need full-time work and people who want work but gave up looking -
stood at 15.6%, down from 16.2%.

Bureau of Labor Statistics

At this link are the government stats. Keep in mind that these numbers don't contain allot of people who are not included in the figures,like folks no longer on unemployment etc..

Keep in mind that there is a cost for all the people on or off unemployment as folks with no income will probably end up on welfare.

Originally posted by CranialSponge
Just count the number of people using food stamps, free clinics, social programs, subsidized housing, etc... that should give you an idea of what kind of condition their country is in (condition being the all-important word here).

Unemployment rates are moot in the grand scheme of things... The true picture is whether or not a country's citizens are actually able to make ends meet, employed or not. You can have every citizen in your country working, but if those people still can't make it from one paycheque to the next, you've got a country in deep economic trouble.

Everybody working at Dunkin' Donuts for minimum wage is not what a country makes... it's the obvious end result of a disappearing manufacturing base. That same manufacturing base that built the country up in the first place.

A country full of minimum wage earners will not keep a consumer market-based economy afloat.

The fact of the matter is:
No more manufacturing base = no more country to keep alive and prosperous. If you're having to import more than you can export, don't expect the books to stay in the black.

Yes, this is the real issue, diminishing quality of life. Job ≠ Quality of Life.

We shouldn't complain though. They give us aspartame and MSG to make wax and wood pulp taste good. Kill simulators for us to play, and reality TV for us to laugh at other's misfortune. "Haha, he can't sing at all, my life is fun."

reply to post by mugger

I find it hard to fathom that the numbers are not higher. Just based on seasonal employment. Construction, landscape, lawncare, mainly shut down by November. It is odd that the unemployment went down?
I would love to know what jobs were created, more McDonald's BS?

The unemployment statistics aren't calculated (as common sense would dictate) by counting all of the people, and then seeing how many of them are unemployed....

The Unemployment statistic calculates what percentage of "The Workforce"(TM) are receiving unemployment benefits.

When you stop receiving unemployment benefits, you are no longer counted as "Unemployed", in fact, you aren't even counted as part of "The Workforce"(TM)

It doesn't matter that you don't have a job yet... You were officially defined out of existence.

So, the ratio of Unemployed to "The Workforce"(TM) decreases, and everything looks fine from the percentage points....

But we have more people who don't have a job, than we did.

And you know what Samuel Clemens says... "Lies, [snip] Lies, and Statistics"

And that is why lots of people joined OWS and are protesting throughout the world. Unfortunately the numbers are not high enough to cause turbulence for the sick status quo, but at least they raise awareness to how big business, bankers and stock market investors are putting short term profits over domestic stability.

Sooner or later the pyramid will collapse, because like others have stated, there will not be enough cash to pay for cheaper *made in india/china* merchandise. Everyone who could afford to move overseas has been doing so for over 2 decades now.

Reversing the trend should have been a priority for most administrations by gradualy raising the tariffs on asian imports, which means american companies would hire more americans at american wages and with a higher standard of living would be able to spend more. Not only that, but chineese and indians companies are not able to compete overseas because "generic brands" don't sell well, and their local workforce is getting exploited by their sold out governments who keep mwl low and enviromental issues lax.

The sword cuts both ways for wall street investors who had/have everything going for them. Sooner or later their luck will turn and they will be exposed for the short sighted traitors they were. Nothing remains the same!

reply to post by -W1LL

What we need is an employment rate with numbers from the Social Security Administration based on people who actually had taxes paid rather than bogus numbers from the Labor Department.

reply to post by dawnstar


I should of been more specific referring to the wall street crash.

Mr. JOHN STEELE GORDON (Financial Historian; Author, "An Empire of Wealth: The Epic History of American Financial Power"): It's pretty much myth. The joke started right away with the crash. Will Rogers said that people had to line up in order to jump out of windows. But it simply didn't happen. The suicide rate in New York in the last three months of 1929 was perfectly normal, about a hundred people, and only four of them were caused by jumping. And only two of those took place on Wall Street, and neither of them were bankers or stock brokers.

npr.org

reply to post by dawnstar


A might be agriculture problem isn' a problem now. And it certainly isn't the same problem they had back then.

The Dust Bowl is a completely different scenario then what is going on now, doesnt even compare. The agricultural nightmare started first leading to the Great Depression.

The Dust Bowl And Its Role In The Great Depression
For years, American farmers overplanted and poorly managed their crop rotations, and between 1930 and 1936, when severe drought conditions prevailed across much of America’s Plains, Dust Bowls were created. Soil turned to dust and large dark clouds could be seen across the horizon in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Colorado, and New Mexico. Topsoil was carried by the ton from barren fields, across hundreds of miles of Plains in the driest regions of the country.

Black Sunday, April 14, 1935, a day when winds reached top speeds of 60 miles per hour, prompted an AP reporter to coin the term “dust bowl” for the first time.

The agricultural depression was a major factor in the Great Depression, as bank loans went bad, credit dried up, and banks closed across the country.

Throughout the 1930s, more than a million acres of land were affected in the Dust Bowl, thousands of farmers lost their livelihoods and property, and mass migration patterns began to emerge farmers left rural America in search of work in urban areas. This migration added to Great Depression unemployment woes, stressed relief and benefits programs, and created social strife in many large American cities.

thegreatdepression


Americans really need to brush up on their history before trying to compare the great recession to the great depression.

reply to post by dawnstar


Also, like I already said, the department of labor has this nifty program that accounts for seasonal shifts in work.

Funny thing . . . if you look at what's got us in this mess to begin with it is everybody looking at numbers to see how well we are or are not doing as a country.

The 'numbers' from Wall Street were looking mighty good for quite a while so everyone assumed things were going well.

The 'numbers' regarding employment levels were looking mighty good for a while so everyone assumed things were going well.

The 'numbers' regarding profitability of banks were looking mighty good for a while so everyone assumed things were going well.

The 'numbers' regarding stock dividends and stock-based mutual funds were looking mighty good for a while so everyone assumed things were going well . . .

You can pretty much name any sector of the economy where the 'numbers' looked good and everyone assumed things were going good . . .


The reality is, you can look at numbers all freakin' day long and interpret them to be whatever you want them to be. But, take a look out on the streets of pretty much any country in the world. Take a look at the people walking down those streets. Take a look at the roads. Take a look at what's coming out of our education system. Take a look at what's become of health care. Take a look at what's become of the standard of living. Take a look at pretty much anything that has an actual 'human' element attached to it and you'll see it doesn't look good.

But, we live in an age where taking a look at the human side of things isn't much done anymore.

As a society, until we get back to looking at the human element before we look at the numbers, we're never going to change a thing.

So, you can believe those who say the unemployment numbers stand at 8.6 percent, or you can believe others who say it's 22 percent.

Until you take a look out your window or as you drive down the main streets of any city, you'll never realize exactly how tough it is and how tenuously most of us are hanging on to our meagre little existences.

That's where the truth lies, not in some government report authored by bureaucrat in some ivory tower to be approved by some suit in an office somewhere who's only interest is in making things look good enough to justify their job for another term of office.

Just my take.

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