Calling Out Jewish and Christians- Please Answer ONE Question

It's also important to note, I think, that even in the Old Testament, not being a Jew wasn't an impediment to being chosen by God for salvation. For instance, Noah. He was way before Abraham (father of the Hebrew/Jewish race). Noah was saved from death, spoke with God directly, and was declared righteous. Enoch is listed in the genealogies and was even older than Noah, I believe. He was directly taken to be with God without even dying. Take Lot, from the Sodom and Gomorrah story. He's declared righteous, too, but he's not a descendant of Abraham. Another final example is Abraham himself. Before he was told about his descendants being as numerous as the stars, he was called righteous by God, named a friend of God, because he trusted God. There were some other examples as well, people not born a Jew but following God. The Book of Ruth tells the story of a woman who was not born a Jew, but chose to follow God, and was thus brought into the family of the Jews by marriage.

This is not to take away from what some others have written here, though. You ask "WHO is right? Jews or Christians?" Pardon me if I'm reading into your question, but you seem to be asking this question from the position that neither is right, that all faith is false or has a mixture of truth.

I place my faith upon the words of Christ: "No one may come to the father except through me." I believe that, and apparently the Apostles did, as well. They explained this possible contradiction by informing us that the Old Testament people, those Jews and the few non-Jews back then who were with God (and we know about), were looking forward to Christ. Did they have a name, or even a concept of who Christ was? Possibly not, but they trusted God, which is the most important point, as was mentioned earlier. If you come to God by Christ, you are putting your faith in him, trusting him. So if you trust God for your salvation, even if you don't know Jesus' name, you are putting your faith in him as well, because God is Christ.

So that's how I see it. I don't think it matters much, but I believe that there are lots and lots of people who have been saved without knowing Jesus directly in terms of reading the Bible or listening to a missionary or something. I think it was John who wrote that everyone will have been given some revelation or something to allow them a chance to trust God. It will be amazing to meet those people.

I'll leave it for the other posters who mentioned how Israel is God's timepiece, and what does "chosen people" mean. To me that's not really important right now. In closing, yes, you cannot get to God without accepting Christ. Being a Jew in the "holy land" doesn't matter. If they deny Christ and refuse to put their faith in him then they will not go to Heaven, period. But I think there are ways that others can get to Heaven without knowing Christ in the same manner we in the west came to do so, with our churches and Bibles and whatnot.

Originally posted by AllUrChips
So I have a question for you christians or people of any religion(just figured mostly christians on here) that I even stumped a pastor with. Its not that hard of a question either. WHO is right? Which of your religions are right? The christians say that you must accept jesus christ as your lord and savior to go to heaven. Jesus is the SON of GOD according to christianity. Now, Jews dont believe that jesus was the son of god. Rather just a prophet. NOW, Im no expert, but if the jews are the "chosen" ones, and they actually LIVE in the "holy land", then who is right? Are the jews not going to heaven because they do not believe that jesus was the son and died for their sins? Are the christians wrong, and Yeshua(translated to joshua) is the son? And those are just the two main religions, thats doesnt even include muslims and allah! So that is my question, WHO IS RIGHT? Jews or christians.

edit on 30-11-2011 by AllUrChips because: (no reason given)

"While individual Jews must come to Christ for salvation, God is still not finished with Israel as a nation. The Bible tells us that in the end times, Israel will finally recognize Jesus as their Messiah (Zechariah 12:10). Jeremiah 33:8, Ezekiel 11:17, and Romans 11:26 predict that in the end times Israel will be regenerated, restored, and regathered in their homeland. This regathering took place in 1948 when Israel was recognized as a sovereign country by the United Nations. (Please see our article on Israel’s role in the end times.) Clearly, God is not finished with the Jewish people."

www.gotquestions.org...

reply to post by AllUrChips

since you question is of the christian faith, instead of creating an arguement, read the bible and find out for your self.

Originally posted by TylerDurden2U
reply to post by AllUrChips

 

since you question is of the christian faith, instead of creating an arguement, read the bible and find out for your self.

It's true. The Bible provides extensive information on Jesus' relationship with the Jews and his ultimate plans for them as well as the rest us. It's sad that more Christians don't read it. Actually, I'm glad this topic got brought up so that it will encourage other people to do so too.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by AllUrChips

 

Dear AllUrChips,

But I did answer your question and I explained that many claiming to be "Christians" do not understand. Titles and claims are very nice; but, the book speaks for itself and it says more than you assume. We know of at least two instances where people were "raptured" (taken to heaven) in the old testament. The New Testament talks of how Jesus, just before his arrest, was with Moses and two others. I am pretty sure that Moses was a Jew and the New Testament discussed Jesus meeting with him, doesn't sound like he was in hell and Moses died before Jesus was born.

Im pretty sure your dodging the QUESTION I asked. Just like all christians do when asked this. Dont beat around the bush please. Are you praying to a false messiah in jesus christ? The jews(who by the way happen to live in the holy land) dont believe your story. And pastor, correct me if im wrong, but does your religion happen tp claim that NO ONE will be saved unless they believe that jesus died for their sins and they accept him into their hearts? Im pretty sure it does.

You comment "all christians", how very bigoted such a thing is. "All" anything is to deny people their right to come to their own conclusions and blame them for the misunderstandings of others. As for who I pray to, I pray to God in the name of Jesus, that is in the recognition of the fact that I needed salvation because I am not God and am not perfect. You ask me what my "religion" believes, I am not a religion and don't care what a "religion" believes, I care about what I believe and read the bible (I have read many of them, even the Book of Mormon and the Koran). The one I read says that even though it is harder for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, through God all things are possible. It said that in reference to whether or not a man could be saved that did not give his all.

Perhaps you think that this is the first time anyone in the world for the past two thousand years has asked the question that you did, you would be incorrect. Still, why seek to create greater disagreement, can you not agree that all who truly love others are deserving of salvation?

Joel Osteen? Is that you?

I'm sorry pastor, but you are evading the question and you did not provide an answer. The only thing you did at best was HINT that the answer might be in the Bible.

Deserving of salvation and receiving salvation are two different things. I find you to be "luke warm" in your comments.

Originally posted by Raivan31
reply to post by AllUrChips

 

Simple answer my friend.

Jews are the chosen ones, therefore if you are not a jew you are not a chosen one.
pre-Christians did not like this idea so they found a way to trump simply being born a jew by being part of the son of god club because they have no other way to get to heaven otherwise.

Seems a bit unfair that being born into a non jewish race would condemn you to eternity in hell from your first breath doesn't it.

If you read the Bible, you would know that's not true.

reply to post by CynicalDrivel


So why the imagery of a cornerstone that hasn't been cut by humans?

It's important to understand that they didn't have cement slab foundations back then. To build a building, you set the perfect stone, in a corner of your foundation, and build from that corner out and up. Choose poorly, and the whole thing crumbles. In Psalms 118:22, there's this little line in a song that states:

The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone.

In 7 separate books, Christ is called that particular phrase: interpreting the builders as Hebraic leaders that rejected Christ and his teaching, but that Christ was the founding cornerstone of the Christian faith--and for some Jews, the continuation of the Jewish faith. Don't take it from me, but take it from the Jews themselves: Jews for Jesus.

Eerily enough, whether or not you believe in who Christ is, he and his teachings were rejected by a lot of the Jewish leaders--still sometimes is. Compounding this is that this cornerstone, strikes the feet of Iron and clay, and destroys Rome. How many historians tout that Rome fell due to Christianity's weakening influence? I mean, just about every single documentary brings this up. And Christianity transcended kingdoms, (think: Christian Nations--not 1, plural). Although the number of believers is dwindling, in some areas, it's gaining in others (look at Christians in China--it's a growing demographic, in spite of being outlawed), and as much as the belief system can be hated, it's not going anywhere soon.

But the cornerstone isn't the only eerie part of this dream. It's time to deal with the clay. From Adam, the tradition comes that we're made of dirt. Even in the Atomic age, we know that the molecules that are in our bodies are found in dirt--heck, a lot of the essential minerals we need to live can be mined, forget an organic source. So, religious or scientific, calling humans clay isn't really a huge stretch. It is a huge theme in Christianity to call Christians clay on the potter's wheel. This part's not even addressed by Daniel, other than to call the Iron strong and the Clay weak, and that the two don't really mix well. It's just odd that the stone crushes the feet, where the clay is, when Christians willingly call themselves clay, and Rome is touted to have been weakened by their turning to Christianity.

---------

So, when was Daniel written?
Naturalists put it at 165 BCE, and most of the rest of Christianity puts it at 6 BCE. More detail to that argument. Includes that the writing style was popular in Egypt in the 5th c. BCE, which if people really looked into how we date when things were written, the style of writing, or even the way the letters were written is used more often than carbon dating. Seriously. Look into it.

But I have heard that people claim that Daniel was written in 70 BCE. Really, that makes no sense, and there's not enough evidence to support this belief.

Any which way, Daniel was written well before Christ was born. It's not until 63 BCE that Rome takes over.

Also, people like to claim that there were 8-9 different men named Jesus, and ask "Which one was the Jesus of the Bible?" I don't discourage them from this question. Why were there that many men with the same name, claiming to be the Messiah?

Simply put, why would so many men make the claim of being the Jewish Messiah during Rome's of Jerusalem if it was not for Daniel telling Nebuchadnezzar that the big stone not cut by human hands was going to crush it during the 4th kingdom? The people of Christ's time believed that the Kingdom was at hand, and were seeking the Messiah. Ever wondered why the Pharisees were bothering going to this radical politician's street meetings, even when they couldn't stand Him? These people were looking for the fall of Rome.

Now, there's other places that talk about the fall of Jerusalem, and how not 1 stone would be left on top of the other--which happened in 70 AD (CE, whatever), and the Messiah was to come before then. So, you have this roughly 140 year period of time that the Messiah could show up, or otherwise Daniel's not a prophecy or you missed Him.

So, Christians tout that the Messiah has come, Jews for Jesus tout that the Messiah has come, and the rest of the still practising Jews are waiting on their Messiah, although they have to ignore their own book to still be waiting. (They've got their red bulls, waiting to rebuild the temple! If they can ever dislodge the Mosque from the site.)

Again, will continue:

reply to post by AllUrChips


Wow

Rather just a prophet.

Jews don't think anything of Jesus. ISLAM considers Jesus a prophet. If anything, Jews regard Jesus as a heretic.


Christianity and Judaism are two fundamentally different religions.

Christianity worships a man. Jews worship God. Christianity deifies the temporal in the form of the trinity - and hence their worship of a man, while Jews focus on the One creator, and His unity with creation, and so worship Him alone.

Christianity is the lentil soup of Esau, while Judaism is a religion which requires effort and labor.

A Christian is saved merely by saying so. A Jew is saved by living a righteous and moral life.

Two different religions, based on an entirely disparate theology and metaphysics.

They are only alike in that Christianity has arrogated the Hebrew Bible and masquerades as the new "Israel" (in the case of Catholicism), claiming the annulment of the Jewish religion, and the formation of a "new covenant", based on faith, and grace, and not morality.

Very, very different religions.

Though, of course, both religions are good. I don't mean to deprecate Christianity. I just feel it lacks in the honesty, integrity, logic, and morality departments.

Notwithstanding the above, there are many beautiful, good and incredibly moral Christians. I speak of Christianity only in a 'general' sense, relative to Judaism.

reply to post by CynicalDrivel


Now, as far as who is right about how you practice your faith? There's this whole section of the New Testament dedicated to showing that we're not to totally leave behind Judaism, although we're not bound by the law. For instance, the whole book of Romans, written to Roman Christians (predominantly "Greek" or people of pagan backgrounds), in which the tiresome phrase "to the Jew first and also to the Greek" pops up 3 times in the beginning of the book. Never forget that Christianity was for the Jews FIRST, but also for the rest of us pagans/heathens. A lot of these types of "who is right" issues wind up glossing over how much Judaism actually is in Christianity to this day. And to fully do justice to where one ends and the other begins, well, that takes studying the whole danged book for the majority of your life to discern.

reply to post by AllUrChips


There is only one God and Jesus is His Son
Romans 3:30 There is only one God and one way of being accepted by Him. He makes people right with himself only by faith whether Jew or Gentile"

you've opened a can of worms here my friend! expect pages of replies!
the real answer is.......... NONE OF THEM ARE CORRECT!
how dare man try to think he knows the mind of the Creator! blasphomy!
all religion is,is man trying to comprehend the physical reality around him,and make sense out of it.
so when lightning hits a house and it burns down,the gods must be angry at that guy!
when you practice mysticism,you learn that YOU are god,and discover many realities,good and bad.(eating from the tree of life-being' like God' knowing good & evil-book of genesis)
all these religions are good at the core,its when man gets involved that screws them all up!
they are all from a common source,and the earliest we can find is egyptian/sumerian beliefs.
many,many similarities.
hebrew 10 commandments-egypt 12-14 commandments,almost identical. Moses raised in egypt,stole the egyption commandments and used them for 'his' people. read the egyptian book of the dead by E.A. WALLIS BUDGE.
excellent translation.
like i have said before,a quote from the immortal Bob Marley-"mighty god is living man!"
peace & love that is the right God!

reply to post by aprilc1


the prophet Jesus,as you call him,was made 'divine' by a show of hands at the roman council of nicea.
he was made the son of god by MAN! mostly for roman pollitical stability,cause the 'natives' were getting restless,and rome was falling apart.
thiss all happened 300 years after Jesus death! if Jesus was truly the son of God,don't you think God woul let His human pets know a few 100 years earliar?
christians are so cute!!!

Originally posted by AllUrChips
So I have a question for you christians or people of any religion(just figured mostly christians on here) that I even stumped a pastor with. Its not that hard of a question either. WHO is right? Which of your religions are right? The christians say that you must accept jesus christ as your lord and savior to go to heaven. Jesus is the SON of GOD according to christianity. Now, Jews dont believe that jesus was the son of god. Rather just a prophet. NOW, Im no expert, but if the jews are the "chosen" ones, and they actually LIVE in the "holy land", then who is right? Are the jews not going to heaven because they do not believe that jesus was the son and died for their sins? Are the christians wrong, and Yeshua(translated to joshua) is the son? And those are just the two main religions, thats doesnt even include muslims and allah! So that is my question, WHO IS RIGHT? Jews or christians.

Jesus spoke out against the Jewish religious establishment, and he was hated for it. He has been denied by that same religious establishment ever since. The Jews do embrace the Old Testament, but despite the fact that Jesus clearly fulfilled all the OT prophecies related to the coming Messiah, he did not fulfill them in the ways they were expecting and they therefore refused to believe he was the Messiah. They expected the Messiah to be a great warrior who would come to violently vanquish all their foes and establish them as the one and only world power. Jesus brought a message that religion was hogwash and that all are equal in God's eyes, and that the lowest of the low will be raised up to inherit the earth. The establishment not only didn't believe it, but they were enraged by it as it went against everything they themselves had been teaching. So to answer your question, the Jews are wrong. Jesus was/ is the son of God and he was/ is the predicted Messiah. Will they be condemned to hell just for not believing that? No, I don't think so. Personally I believe that all on this earth who do not believe will be given the truth, if not in life then probably just after death, and then they will be allowed to decide their eternal fate. Some will choose to be with God and others will not.

reply to post by redbarron626

Jim Morrison was right, but he died. " 5 is 1 and 1 is 5. No one here gets out alive."

Jim was right, but your quote is wrong.

Five to one, baby
One in five
No one here gets out alive, now
You get yours, baby I'll get mine Gonna make it, baby If we try

We are all the creation/sons of the creator.

The creator said to call him YHWH and only worship him.


Christians all pray to the Semitic Deity of Fortune, Gad. Which pronounced in English sounds like "God"....the English word created by King James 401 years ago. He was having money/power problems and got everyone to worship Gad (God).

Try to find the letters G-O-D used in the English language prior to 1610.....you won't find it. King James created the new English word God....when he got everyone to pray to the deity of Fortune...a Semitic Deity.

There are 2 Christian Groups in America trying to get Christians to pray to the right deity, YHWH.

Originally posted by AllUrChips
WHO is right? Which of your religions are right?

[COLOR=GOLD]

Basically they are both right if you can understand how... this includes Islam also INFLUENCES OF LORD ENLIL (ANNUNAKI) *so it seems Enkite or Enlilite somewhat
[/COLOR]

Abrahamic religions are the monotheistic faiths emphasizing and tracing their common origin to Abraham[1] or recognizing a spiritual tradition identified with him.[2][3][4] They are one of the three major divisions in comparative religion, along with Indian religions (Dharmic) and East Asian religions (Taoic). As of the early twenty-first century, it was estimated that 54% of the world's population (3.8 billion people) considered themselves adherents of the Abrahamic religions, about 30% of other religions, and 16% of no religion.[5][6]

The three major Abrahamic religions are, in chronological order of founding, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Judaism regards itself as the religion of the descendants of Jacob,[n 1] a grandson of Abraham. It has a strictly unitary view of God, and the central holy book for almost all branches is the Hebrew Bible, as elucidated in the oral law.

Christianity began as a sect of Judaism[n 2] in the Mediterranean Basin[n 3] of the 1st century CE and evolved into a separate religion—the Christian Church—with distinctive beliefs and practices. Jesus is the central figure of Christianity, considered by almost all denominations to be divine,


en.wikipedia.org...

In the Sumerian texts, we have the stories of Enki and Enlil, and for the most part there is portions devoted to each. But in Genesis, Enlil seemingly reigns supreme. [color=gold]Enlil knew early on, that a pound of good Public Relations effort is worth a ton of truth.

Abraham and his descendants served Enlil, and followed his precepts.

The Egyptians, on the other hand, were Enki’s protégés, and based on food management practices during the devastating droughts around the time of Jacob and Joseph, were doing a lot better than Enlil’s followers.

www.halexandria.org...

LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA*******

reply to post by InfaRedMan


Trevor is the false squid. Travis is the TRUE SQUID!

All hail Travis!

Originally posted by AllUrChips

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by AllUrChips

 

Dear AllUrChips,

We are to have the heart of Christ not just believe a story. Christ described his heart, he said we were to love God with all of our heart and others as we love ourselves. Let me ask you a question, what do you think saves us, hate or love? Do you think that people are saved because they correctly answered a game show question or because they truly care about others? There are some Christians who will attempt to correct me; but, there are many that will go to Jesus calling his name and he will tell them that he never knew them, Satan knows his name and knows what he did, does that save Satan?

The question, even for atheists, is not whether or not you guessed right on the exam, it is whether or not you loved others and forgave others or had a heart of hate and selfishness. Why seek division when we can seek to love and help one another? If you truly care about your answer, try asking questions that lead to greater understanding rather than proving someone wrong. By the way, I am a Pastor and you didn't stump me in the least. Pat yourself on the back when you bring people together.

Im pretty sure your dodging the QUESTION I asked. Just like all christians do when asked this. Dont beat around the bush please. Are you praying to a false messiah in jesus christ? The jews(who by the way happen to live in the holy land) dont believe your story. And pastor, correct me if im wrong, but does your religion happen tp claim that NO ONE will be saved unless they believe that jesus died for their sins and they accept him into their hearts? Im pretty sure it does.

Thank You Thank You Thank You!!! Your QUESTION is the ONE that is ALWAYS DODGED!!!!! Lets be honest NOBODY can answer this question correctly because they do not know, so they ignore it and hope it will go away. I am not about dividing anything. I AM ABOUT TRUTH SEEKING!!

It all started here I think:
www.amazon.com...

My father is reading the series, I am waiting to borrow it But from his review, these books do a great job explaining historical and religious facts..

Pervius

Try to find the letters G-O-D used in the English language prior to 1610.

Doctor Faustus, by Christopher Marlowe, an English playwright who died in 1593.

www.bartleby.com...

All. God forbid!

reply to post by AllUrChips


All children belong to God, both Jew and Gentile; therefore we are ALL children of God.

There is no other God before him and there is no one after him.

To sacrifice a human being for another's sin is absurb.

For a woman to lay claim she is with child and is still a virgin is impossible. God has no image, therefore how can one assume God is a man? Maybe God is a woman. Maybe God is a divine entity. If God is a divine entity then God has no face, no solid human form of man nor woman. I'll let you work that out for yourself. But know this, a human woman can only be impregnated by a human man.

For God to forgive and this "an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" is not clear cut as the Christians believe.

They say Jew, Christian and Muslim share the same God. No they do not. The Christians believe God has the image of Man. The Muslims believe their God is one of many pagan Gods they once prayed to. The Jews believe their God is One and has no image.

I suggest rather than ask the question, you study religion and you work it all out on your own. But keep this in mind, all scripture is open to interpretation and just one passage alone can be debated for weeks or even months on end.