A Trip Back To July, 1952, For Those Who Say UFO's/ET Are Not real

reply to post by SteveR


No real sources I'm afraid, I don't know that I've ever seen it discussed to be honest - but it seems a logical possibility to me. It's basically an extension of the advanced ancient human civilisation theories. If an ancient human civilisation (for example Atlantis) did have advanced technology, this technology may have included space travel. Any such civilisation were either wiped out completely or escaped into space. If they escaped into space they may return.

And to respond to the other poster, I left out natural phenomena because I was addressing sightings that exhibit signs of intelligent control. Perhaps these signs are misinterpreted, but I personally believe many of these craft are under intelligent control. If there is a being controlling these craft, those 5 options are about the only options I can think of. So yes, the natural phenomena options certainly can't be ruled out, but if we're considering intelligent control then they're somewhat irrelevant.

Originally posted by SteveR

Originally posted by TheStev
4. Ancient humans come home

Never heard this theory before. Interesting. Any links?

From Timeless Earth, by Peter Kolosimo, p. 194:

Einstein, for instance, believed in a plurality of inhabited
worlds, and is said to have maintained that the navigators of "flying
saucers" are human beings who left earth 20,000 years ago and return
to see how their descendants are getting on.

You know....i have been saying for MONTHS now....that if a person want's to find REAL evidence of E.T.....the best place to look is at the MEDIA RELEASES AND INTERVIEWS of the early 1950's

This is just a small part of the evidence....even though UFO flyovers of DC is fairly daunting and scary....it is the files dumped into the DEPT. OF AGRICULTURE....done last minute as yery old files were forgotten to exist and as THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT came into effect....they had to be dumped somewhere as these were paper, film, and audio.....physical proof....and not something that could be deleated on a computer because they were tangible.

So....last minute....they dumped a TON of files, data and information in a place they figuered....NO ONE WOULD LOOK IN THE DEPT. OF AGRICULTURE FOR E.T.

And for a while they were right...but by shear chance....some were discovered....this led to much of the files being moved again. But quite a bit was found. Check it out. Split Infinity

reply to post by TheStev


Terrestrial, but not "ours". Fascinating.

Originally posted by MysticPearl
I've seen a couple threads of late saying there is no evidence of UFO's or ET. Just wanted to refresh a few minds about what occurred during July, of 1952..

MysticPearl, great thread subject and, I don't know about ETs, but this is certainly an extremely interesting UFO case - am glad you included the radarscope image of the object executing the right angle turn, sure is pretty strange that one.

Diagram of July 20, 1952 UFOs Over DC


See figure E


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/646c435947b5.jpg[/atsimg]

Diagram of the UFOs tracked by Washington's National Airport radar scope on July 20, 1952. At A, 7 objects approach the Nation's capital from the south. At B, some are seen over the White House and Capitol. At C, they appear over Andrews Air Force Base. At D, one UFO tracks an airliner. At E, one is seen to make a sharp right-angular turn.

Source: UFOs - A Pictorial History From Antiquity to the Present, by David C. Knight. (McGraw Hill Book Co., 1979.)

As has been mentioned on your thread already, 1952 was a huge year for UFO reports (particularly radar correlated ones) and this Washington case certainly is one of the more infamous examples as it's said to have caused 'the biggest press conference to be convened since the end of WW2' - Gazrok has also compiled an excellent thread about the sightings below and there's some great information about the USAF's 'temperature inversion' debunk as well as statements from pilots, military engineers and air traffic controllers.


UFOs over DC in 1952, Jets Scrambled

Statements.

"There is no other conclusion I can reach but that for six hours on the morning of the 20th of July, 1952 there were at least ten unidentifiable objects moving above Washington....I can safely deduce that they performed gyrations which no known aircraft could perform. By this I mean that our scope showed that they could make right angle turns and complete reversals of flight".
Senior Air Route Traffic Controller Harry Barnes.



"I saw several bright lights. I was at my maximum speed, but even the I had no closing speed...Later I chased a single bright light which I estimated about ten miles away. I lost visual contact with it at about two miles".
Lt William Patterson, F-94 Pilot who chased UFOs over Washington DC, 1952



"And the guy that the Colonel, that Dewey bought with him, declared that as far as he was concerned, those were real objects up there. No ground clutter or nothing. And the fact that when we had an intercept come in, and those things vanished the very instance that we could see the planes coming in on the radar scope. The minute we saw the beginning of these guys, the UFOs just disappeared. They just left,"
Albert Chop

Cheers.

Click here for more information.

It should not be in dispute that UFOs exist. Unidentified Flying Objects (objects which fly or appear to fly and cannot be positively identified) most definitely exist. The question then becomes: what are they? That's an entirely different discussion, and one not so clearly defined. I have yet to see any incontrovertible proof that they are any of the different things people have hypothesized that they might be. Therefore, as a skeptical person, I have to keep an open mind and refrain from accepting those hypotheses as fact until such time as they become irrefutable.

What I am certain of is that there is a body of compelling evidence supportive of the notion that there is an as yet unexplained phenomenon resulting in the most persuasive and least explainable sightings over the decades (and for all we know and in some cases seems to be the case potentially, centuries,) and that the governments of the world have in the past taken this phenomenon extremely seriously. I don’t think that can be effectively disputed.
\
What that phenomenon is, who or what is responsible for it, or what those aforementioned governments know with certainty about it, or how much of their interest was or is feigned to conceal their own covert operations, I would not even begin to try to assert.

reply to post by Amanda5

It's not that. It's that some people are not intuitives. My personality, for example, is INTP. My intuition was rated at 68%. So when I see all of the various chains of evidence supporting a unconventional view of UFOs, I'm alerted to it at once. But for a non-intuitive, empirical evidence is needed to spark their interest to significant levels. And thus we arrive at a dilemma. Since there's no empirical evidence, does this mean UFOs can readily be explained by conventional explanations? This depends on the person because we don't have any empirical evidence for or against the postulate that humans or aliens could coverup something of this magnitude.

Anyway, you don't need to tell me that there's a lot of suggestive evidence out there. There're thousands of cases across the world spanning more than 60 years. I can imagine people hoaxing things or imagining things, but it's hard for me to accept that so many would do it. I've met some in person, so nobody can tell me that they're all doing it for fame or fortune or other disingenuous reasons. So many people from all walks of life have been unwilling participants in these events. It seems so random, which is, coincidentally, appropriate. I think there's a good chance it's a combination of fantasy (wish-casting; delusion) and hoaxing, but I also think there's a good chance that a few of these cases are legitimate instances where ETs or an as yet unknown (or unspecified) advanced race of humans are piloting spacecraft in earth's vicinity.

In some ways, skepticism is rationale and dependable. It's the mark of the new brain. Intuition, at least in part, is probably of the old and more primitive brain. Fear and instinctive responses are becoming increasingly less effective than the new brain in the modern world.

In case anybody is wondering, I referenced the Myers and Briggs personality test. The opposite of INTP, in terms, is ESFJ. That would be: extroverted sensing feeling judgment. If I angered anyone by suggesting I'm superior to them, there's no need for that. Myers and Briggs measures your propensity for certain personality traits. It's not a measure of your superiority. A sensing individual, for example, desires to work with concrete, trustworthy information. Intuitives, on the other hand, desire more abstract and theoretical information. This means that since I have been determined to be an intuitive that I probably have many wild and completely wrong ideas about the world. This is because I desire to go my own way. So, realistically, I'm going to fall as much or more than I rise. There's no gain. Many times I will error where a sensing individual will succeed.

Go here to learn more about it:
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by St Udio

Hey old man! Is remarkable you were there to see it as it happened and filled the airways.

Is there anything I can say to make you feel younger? Or do you want to feel like an ancient relic? I think back just to the 1970's and it must seem to me like some different world.

No offense, sir. I have hte upmost respect for you. Nothing I say changes who/what you are.

Btw, I'm reading The Robots of Dawn by Isaac Asimov (1982). He was writing in the 50's. That was when he cemented his 3 laws of robots. He coined the term "robotics" in 1942. Did you know Arthur C Clarke did a show in the early 1960's, predicting the emergence of an information age?

Here:

reply to post by MysticPearl


I have found a news article on chinese military news related website, china-defense-mashup.com november 2010 that the Chinese f16 pilot and many senior officials admitted being chased by a ufo.

This website is reliable. All artcles are news and cited from xinhua.net and such.

Chinese Air force admits to UFO chase in 1998
Posted on 02 November 2010 by admin Print This Post
« « Military exchanges between China and Arabian statesPak, China sign pact on ground control system for satellite » »


The Chinese air-force has admitted that pilots of F-6 aircraft chased two UFOs but were ultimately unable to keep up with them, the pilots did get a good view of the objects and were able to describe them in great detail. This UFO event occurred October 1998.
Astonishingly these events were witnessed by a famous Aeronautical scientist and a Major general as well as being tracked by airport control towers and seen by hundreds of staff.

PLA Air Force F-6 Fighter
The pilots and ground staff initially saw the UFOs as lights in the sky but on getting close described them as 'glowing fireballs', shaped like 'straw hats' or 'mushrooms'
"Curved top, flat bottom, the bottom rows and rows of lights, beam down, the edge of a red light, the whole shaped like a huge straw hat!" noted one pilot.
The pilots climbed 12,000 feet and the UFO craft ascended to 20,000feet and then vanished from both their sight and airport radar.
Bizarrely the same scene repeated itself at another air-force base days later.

reply to post by nh_ee

Is that Gordon Cooper interview for real? That is just so amazing an interview.

Originally posted by romanmel
No one denies the UFOs exist...there are an abundance of reports of Unidentified Flying Objects.

The OP mentions, as do most ET believers, UFOs and ETs in the same breath as if one sustantiates the other. They Don't.

I can even consider that so-called "grays" truely exist. That they exist, does not imply that the are ETs. They indeed could just as easily be ED's.

The simple truth is this...to prove the eistance of ETs would require a well documented visit to ET's world by humans. Not a likely near-time event.

The items presented in this thread provide nothing to even come close to extablishing an ET presence.

An ED (I assume you mean Extra Dimensional) would also be considered ET (Extra Terrestrial). If it is not from this earth then it is extra terrestrial weather it comes from another dimension or not.

Personally I think they very well could be extra-dimensional.

In my opinion there is enough evidence out there to convince any rational thinker of the existence of ET's.

I mean come on do you really seriously believe that those things that were videoed, photoed, seen visually air to air, ground to air and on RADAR are lens flares? The US military would not have scrambled jets to their own craft, they would just simply deny the existence of the craft if it were theirs.

The Germans didn't build them, they were barely able to build a simple rocket that could reach neighboring countries, believe me if they could have built those at that time I can assure you they would have won the war, and the same can be applied to the United States too. The United States would not have had to send millions of our boys to their deaths.

These were not built by any humans and they damn sure weren't lens flairs that explanation is absurd and laughable.

Deny ignorance people.....

-Alien

Originally posted by Alien Abduct

Originally posted by romanmel
No one denies the UFOs exist...there are an abundance of reports of Unidentified Flying Objects.

The OP mentions, as do most ET believers, UFOs and ETs in the same breath as if one sustantiates the other. They Don't.

I can even consider that so-called "grays" truely exist. That they exist, does not imply that the are ETs. They indeed could just as easily be ED's.

The simple truth is this...to prove the eistance of ETs would require a well documented visit to ET's world by humans. Not a likely near-time event.

The items presented in this thread provide nothing to even come close to extablishing an ET presence.

An ED (I assume you mean Extra Dimensional) would also be considered ET (Extra Terrestrial). If it is not from this earth then it is extra terrestrial weather it comes from another dimension or not.

Personally I think they very well could be extra-dimensional.

In my opinion there is enough evidence out there to convince any rational thinker of the existence of ET's.

I mean come on do you really seriously believe that those things that were videoed, photoed, seen visually air to air, ground to air and on RADAR are lens flares? The US military would not have scrambled jets to their own craft, they would just simply deny the existence of the craft if it were theirs.

The Germans didn't build them, they were barely able to build a simple rocket that could reach neighboring countries, believe me if they could have built those at that time I can assure you they would have won the war, and the same can be applied to the United States too. The United States would not have had to send millions of our boys to their deaths.

These were not built by any humans and they damn sure weren't lens flairs that explanation is absurd and laughable.

Deny ignorance people.....

-Alien

edit on 12/5/2011 by Alien Abduct because: spelling correction

edit on 12/5/2011 by Alien Abduct because: (no reason given)

Good post. if it was human technology at the time, then why was the most technologically advanced military in the world left speechless, without an answer? And why haven't we seen it since?

My gut tells me they were from elsewhere. It's not proof, obviously, but likely in my opinion.

UFO's or natural phenomenon? We may never know but it was an active time for meteor showers especially in 1952. Its possible they were chasing fireballs. then again maybe not.



The Op's link shows the Washington Post story of Monday, July 28 1952.

Snippets:

The duration of this southern shower extends from July 16 to August 13. Maximum occurs on July 30 (λ=127°), at which time the radiant is at α=337°, δ=-28°. The maximum ZHR tends to reach 3-5. The meteors are generally slow and white.


As noted earlier, there is a period of complete neglect of this meteor shower following the 1937 observations of Hoffmeister's group, but observations were finally resumed in 1953. In that year, radar equipment at Christchurch, New Zealand observed a "highly probable" Pisces Australid radiant at α=328°, δ=-27° during July 21-26. The shower was considered quite strong.

During 1960, a more elaborate radar survey was conducted by B. L. Kashcheyev and V. N. Lebedinets at the Kharkov Polytechnical Institute (USSR). They detected 32 meteors from this stream during July 16-August 13, and concluded that maximum came on July 26 (solar longitude=123 deg), at which time the radiant was at α=340°, δ=-26°. From this data, the first orbit was computed which indicated a 45 deg inclination and a semimajor axis of 4.31 AU.

The long absence of visual observations finally ended in 1965, when Edward F. Turco (Cranston, Rhode Island), a member of the American Meteor Society, observed the Alpha Pisces Australids during three nights, centered on July 29/30. "The meteors I saw were not too bright, though I was surprised with two exceptions, both fireballs." He pointed out that this was the first time he had ever detected this shower.

source: meteorshowersonline.com...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Space.com - 1952 meteor showers were really productive.

A big year for the Draconids

The Draconids' poor timing this year will be frustrating for many stargazers, because it thwarts a rare opportunity. Most years, the Draconids — so named because they appear to radiate from the constellation Draco — are pretty lackluster, with peak meteor rates hovering around 10 per hour. [Related: Potentially Damaging Draconid Meteor Shower Highlights Spacecraft Risk]

That's barely above the normal "background" rate of shooting stars, and a far cry from counts seen during stronger showers. August's Perseids, for example, typically clock in at about 100 per hour.

"You go out in a normal year and look up for the Draconids on October 8, and you're going to be very sadly disappointed," Cooke told SPACE.com.

That's not to say the shower hasn't dazzled in the past. Peak meteor counts topped 10,000 per hour in 1933 and 1946, and they ran into the hundreds in 1952, 1985 and 1998.

source: www.space.com...

Originally posted by dcmb1409
UFO's or natural phenomenon? We may never know but it was an active time for meteor showers especially in 1952. Its possible they were chasing fireballs. then again maybe not.



The Op's link shows the Washington Post story of Monday, July 28 1952.

Snippets:

The duration of this southern shower extends from July 16 to August 13. Maximum occurs on July 30 (λ=127°), at which time the radiant is at α=337°, δ=-28°. The maximum ZHR tends to reach 3-5. The meteors are generally slow and white.


As noted earlier, there is a period of complete neglect of this meteor shower following the 1937 observations of Hoffmeister's group, but observations were finally resumed in 1953. In that year, radar equipment at Christchurch, New Zealand observed a "highly probable" Pisces Australid radiant at α=328°, δ=-27° during July 21-26. The shower was considered quite strong.

During 1960, a more elaborate radar survey was conducted by B. L. Kashcheyev and V. N. Lebedinets at the Kharkov Polytechnical Institute (USSR). They detected 32 meteors from this stream during July 16-August 13, and concluded that maximum came on July 26 (solar longitude=123 deg), at which time the radiant was at α=340°, δ=-26°. From this data, the first orbit was computed which indicated a 45 deg inclination and a semimajor axis of 4.31 AU.

The long absence of visual observations finally ended in 1965, when Edward F. Turco (Cranston, Rhode Island), a member of the American Meteor Society, observed the Alpha Pisces Australids during three nights, centered on July 29/30. "The meteors I saw were not too bright, though I was surprised with two exceptions, both fireballs." He pointed out that this was the first time he had ever detected this shower.

source: meteorshowersonline.com...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Space.com - 1952 meteor showers were really productive.

A big year for the Draconids

The Draconids' poor timing this year will be frustrating for many stargazers, because it thwarts a rare opportunity. Most years, the Draconids — so named because they appear to radiate from the constellation Draco — are pretty lackluster, with peak meteor rates hovering around 10 per hour. [Related: Potentially Damaging Draconid Meteor Shower Highlights Spacecraft Risk]

That's barely above the normal "background" rate of shooting stars, and a far cry from counts seen during stronger showers. August's Perseids, for example, typically clock in at about 100 per hour.

"You go out in a normal year and look up for the Draconids on October 8, and you're going to be very sadly disappointed," Cooke told SPACE.com.

That's not to say the shower hasn't dazzled in the past. Peak meteor counts topped 10,000 per hour in 1933 and 1946, and they ran into the hundreds in 1952, 1985 and 1998.

source: www.space.com...

Possible. No one knows for sure. At least no one here.

But I'd be a little surprised at our governments and military's response to a meteor shower. Since when does the president, and generals comment on meteor showers? If it was a meteor shower, wouldn't they have handled the same scenario the following saturdy a little bit better? The white house fly overs happened on consecutive saturdays.

Since when do fighter jets attempt to engage meteors? That doesn't make sense either.