The Bible has been changed ( rewritten )

reply to post by chr0naut


One cannot live "in" Christ. Literally or metaphorically.

Originally posted by jellyfishbrains
The Bible does not cite it's sources for all of the stories it has stolen and borrowed.
That would get you a failing grade in school.

It's called PLAGIARISM

edit on 28-11-2011 by jellyfishbrains because: (no reason given)

Again, how do you know this?

Could it also be that these other sources that you allude to, were not original and they plagarised what we now call the Bible? What were these other sources and what evidence do you have that they predated the Biblical text?

When I challenged you previously about how you knew of details that were impossible for you to have known, your previous statement that you just "know", does not assure me of the validity of your research into the topic.

I am willing to hear you cite specifics but until you do I will suggest that what you state is nothing more than opinion.

If the originators of the Biblical texts were eyewitnesses to their accounts (which is what I would assume for the majority of the Bible), they could not possibly be plagarists, no matter how large you write the word.

reply to post by r2311971


which
god?

Originally posted by jellyfishbrains
reply to post by chr0naut

 

One cannot live "in" Christ. Literally or metaphorically.

It is a deep spiritual truth and cannot easily be explained until it becomes self-evident in your life, but I'll try.

It is a feeling like a place has existed for you since before the creation of the world and you just slot in there, accepted and loved. Part of a continuum, essential and growing, a connection to all life and the source of joy.

Jesus said that by letting go of yourself and believing Him (that He is God and is able to do what is required to change you, to fit you to His place) that you become an adopted Son of God. Your branch gets grafted into the vine. You in Him, He in you and He in the Father as the Father as in Him and you and the Spirit too.

Inadequacy, isolation and guilt are forgotten and removed.

I don't feel it all the time, but enough that I know it as more real than the rest of my existence.

I suppost this is why people will go to their deaths, willingly, over their faith.

... or will argue vehemently over issues that others cannot readily discern.

Originally posted by metaldemon2000
reply to post by randyvs

 

You sir embody everything I despise about religion. Immortality?? Favoured by god??? Come on. Immortality is physically impossible. Even planets die. Stars even.

The idea that a sentient omnipotent being plays puppet show with the people of this planet is absolutely ridiculous. Why was the universe created to be so massive then if life was only intended for earth?? What would be the point for even having a universe?? So many questions, so little that religion can answer.

The problem is that the word of gos has Ben written by the hands of men. Men are both good and evil. Men have agendas and desires.


Answer me this. If you think there is nothing sinister behind the bible then why has some of the greatest atrocities committed by men done in the name of god??? And considering that why can we assume the bible is legit if the very people we entrust to be the authority on god are some of type biggest murderers throughout the course of history???

No offense, but so far, everything you've posted is personal supposition. No evidence...

reply to post by chr0naut


Welp, Christianity is a sect of Judaism. The Torah predates the bible. The was essentially stories passed on orally talked about ect for a long time before it was compiled, like i have said before around 300 AD. Huge numbers of books were forgotten and burned.

Now since the Old Testament is the Torah that christianity borrowed. Lets look at say mmmm the Noah flood story. The Egyptians predate this with their stories. When Moses was tripping on drugs up on that mountain writing down things "God" told him to that was at the furthest around 3,500 BC. Ancient Sumerian stories predate that. Flood Myth, human origins ect.

You have to stop using your "Faith" as a justification for your answers. If you really have some inner most feeling that influences your thoughts and emotions, see a doctor ok.

Anyone who considers themselves Christian and believes in the Bible being the word of God is just ignorant to how world religions developed.
Everyone has to realize that when a book is written by Peter or Paul it was not actually the Peter or Paul from the stories or the characters whatever they were actually called. There would be more surviving counter religions today if the Christians weren't so evil. Some of the most evil despicable people in history were christian. Burn, kill, and erase what conflicts their creation The Bible because without this book people worship they would have lost there power and money.

reply to post by Lionhearte

And, of course, believing that Jesus was indeed who he said he was.

...and who did He say He was? Nothing wrong with a message of peace and love, but, I think people should get the WHOLE story of a man before they blindly follow his teachings. Wasn't there a part of the Bible where Jesus actually killed a child when he was a child? I may be WAY off base there, but I do remember reading about that somewhere.

reply to post by superman2012


That is from The Infancy Gospel of Thomas. It may date back to 80 AD or as recent as 2nd or 3rd century. But stories goes Jesus cursed a boy on accident once. Killed a boy on purpose once then raised him. Also saved his own brother from poisonous snake bite I think.

reply to post by Evanzsayz


To deny that the bible has changed is like denying that everything from the season to the movements above and below in the all cause of god and the effect of universe upon all worlds that are existing within the non-existing moving from that which has and will into our existence which is defined by change from our begetting within conception in the Omega to the ending the Alpha which is our birth into the world without us, the beginning of a life anew which is shadowed to end by death its destiny of end the Alpha with in all living things whether it be a microbe, plant, fungus, animal or even the a planet which is living slowly and dieing same as us and the stars,
Which we came from cant live and create life without their long lives of lighting the void with the noises and sights of erotic fiery making light from its passionate act of creation, until its end of its life culminating in the alpha of it death where it releases its most destructive and powerful super novas charging the universe with the seeds of life future life
Waging a war against time which is draining life as we fight against the pull of gravity and the backward motion of time until the end in the Alpha which is where we all end, But Omega is where creation starts from begins end Begetting Terra Nova

Which is like all life is ever changing evolving into its alpha

Same as a language lives and dies like Latin or Sanskrit are considered dead since no one use them and they have ceased to adapt and incorporate new words, terms and concepts which for many reasons caused them to fall out of use
Where as English a language I loathed since childhood Is an amazingly adaptive living language adding and incorporating everything it can which has one great weakness in words can hold 2 or more meanings you can have 1 conversation with 3 people at the same time with each one getting 1 level the other one sees 2 levels the 3rd gets all of them levels and the inside joke.

For Knowledge is the father, Wisdom is the mother and Understanding is the son

so in this way does the universe work and change like a language for he masculine god spoke light (Spoke Knowledge ) being light that can only exist if in her the goddess feminine aspect of god in wisdom does listen (for wisdom always takes everything in) the Sun understands them both

Understandings the Knowledge of Wisdom and gain the Knowledge of Truth allowing it to illuminant a small circle of the dark places

He who has knowledge of the truth is a free man, but the free man does not sin, for "He who sins is the slave of sin" [John 8:34].
I know no sin for no one, but all may judge me, for I am free of mental slavery by will of my judgement to not pass judgement.

Their are only 2 thing I hold as 100% truth Ex Nihilo Nihil Fit nothing is everything, but everything is not nothing for all is one; one is all(

which is what God is the all (Brahman) infinity and beyond, which is all but cannot allow for all possible things to take place without the life of the finite life of the Brahma whose life was begot from that which came before and will beget anew from its end of this universe like ground hog day the movie with Bill Murry whos lives the same day over and over again until he finds love "gets laid" and Omega move to Alpha as the beginning moves to the end
And 7 Laws of Universe,
&)Law of Gender
“Gender is in everything; everything has its Masculine and Feminine Principles; Gender manifests on all planes.”

^)Law of Cause and Effect
“Every Cause has its Effect; every Effect has its Cause; everything happens according to Law; Chance is but a name for Law not recognized; there are many planes of causation, but nothing escapes the Law.”

%)Law of Rhythm
“Everything flows, out and in; everything has its tides; all things rise and fall; the pendulum-swing manifests in everything; the measure of the swing to the right is the measure of the swing to the left; rhythm compensates.”

$)Law of Polarity
“Everything is Dual; everything has poles; everything has its pair of opposites; like and unlike are the same; opposites are identical in nature, but different in degree; extremes meet; all truths are but half-truths; all paradoxes may be reconciled.”

#)Law of Vibration
“Nothing rests; everything moves; everything vibrates.”

@)Law of Correspondence
“As above, so below; as below, so above.”

!)Law of Mentalism
“THE ALL is MIND; The Universe is Mental.”

"Maybe our world is but one note upon the mind and played throughout making our life simply living within the fading of a soulful song one note, that which seeing cannot describe, nor listening can all be heard but in feeling can every note be understood in the songs sung to all composing one note, born a new from within, its own vibrations that make realization within it all, just a part of one immortal soulful song"- KHM

Of course its been rewritten, it in itself is a mish-mash of much bigger books (26 books I believe?) In fact I often laugh to myself when people insist on quoting the Bible in an argument regarding End Of Times debates Angels and my personal favourite pick me up Aliens being Demons, they probably are but they have the argument the wrong way round..... SOME construed Demons are infact Aliens doing things that are alien to human nature. So the Bible we know today and its stories are a complete rewrite in fact even the stories have been changed to appeal to its founders..... The Roman Empire, it was made to appeal to the Pagan and Christian ideals of the time and simply spread from there.

Judaism and Paganism Cherry Picked book created by a Pagan convert... Go figure.

Emperor Constantine

For every Bible believer that cites the Dead Sea Scrolls as being proof the bible has not been rewritten read this:

The Book of Enoch is in the Dead Sea Scrolls but not in the Bible.

Uh Oh

Most scholars say that the present form of the story in the Book of Enoch was penned sometime during the second century B.C. and was popular for at least five hundred years. The earliest Ethiopic text was apparently made from a Greek manuscript of the Book of Enoch, which itself was a copy of an earlier text. The original was apparently written in Semitic language, now thought to be Aramaic.

Though it was once believed to be post-Christian (the similarities to Christian terminology and teaching are striking), recent discoveries of copies of the book among the Dead Sea Scrolls found at Qumran prove that the book was in existence before the time of Jesus Christ. But the date of the original writing upon which the second century B.C. Qumran copies were based is shrouded in obscurity. It is, in a word, old. It has been largely the opinion of historians that the book does not really contain the authentic words of the ancient biblical patriarch Enoch, since he would have lived (based on the chronologies in the Book of Genesis) several thousand years earlier than the first known appearance of the book attributed to him.

Despite its unknown origins, Christians once accepted the words of this Book of Enoch as authentic scripture, especially the part about the fallen angels and their prophesied judgment. In fact, many of the key concepts used by Jesus Christ himself seem directly connected to terms and ideas in the Book of Enoch. Thus, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that Jesus had not only studied the book, but also respected it highly enough to adopt and elaborate on its specific descriptions of the coming kingdom and its theme of inevitable judgment descending upon "the wicked" - the term most often used in the Old Testament to describe the Watchers.

There is abundant proof that Christ approved of the Book of Enoch. Over a hundred phrases in the New Testament find precedents in the Book of Enoch. Another remarkable bit of evidence for the early Christians' acceptance of the Book of Enoch was for many years buried under the King James Bible's mistranslation of Luke 9:35, describing the
transfiguration of Christ: "And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, 'This is my beloved Son: hear him." Apparently the translator here wished to make this verse agree with a similar verse in Matthew and Mark. But Luke's verse in the original Greek reads: "This is my Son, the Elect One (from the Greek ho eklelegmenos, lit., "the elect one"): hear him." The "Elect One" is a most significant term (found fourteen times) in the Book of Enoch. If the book was indeed known to the apostles of Christ, with its abundant descriptions of the Elect One who should "sit upon the throne of glory" and the Elect One who should "dwell in the midst of them," then the great scriptural authenticity is accorded to the Book of Enoch when the "voice out of the cloud" tells the apostles, "This is my Son, the Elect One" - the one promised in the Book of Enoch.

The Book of Jude tells us in vs. 14 that "Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied..." Jude also, in vs. 15, makes a direct reference to the Book of Enoch (2:1), where he writes, "to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly..." The time difference between Enoch and Jude is approximately 3400 years. Therefore, Jude's reference to the Enochian prophesies strongly leans toward the conclusion that these written prophesies were available to him at that time.

Fragments of ten Enoch manuscripts were found among the Dead Sea Scrolls. The famous scrolls actually comprise only one part of the total findings at Qumran. Much of the rest was Enochian literature, copies of the Book of Enoch, and other apocryphal works in the Enochian tradition, like the Book of Jubilees. With so many copies around, the Essenes could well have used the Enochian writings as a community prayer book or teacher's manual and study text.

When will fairy tale worshiping foolish mortals finally understand that it is The Universe who is God. Your Son of God being the Sun. ~SheopleNation

reply to post by jellyfishbrains


uhhhISSSS your point?
I get alot of insight from the book of Enoch.
It is even refered to in the Bible
I have to state emphatically you fail on this.
A red herring is all.
Homer's Iliad is very insightful too.
What isssss your point?
Has the same criteria been met with the book of Enoch that was given to the Torah and the prphets?
This could be your first clue as to why it's not included, eh?

Originally posted by jellyfishbrains
reply to post by chr0naut

 

Welp, Christianity is a sect of Judaism. The Torah predates the bible. The was essentially stories passed on orally talked about ect for a long time before it was compiled, like i have said before around 300 AD. Huge numbers of books were forgotten and burned.

Now since the Old Testament is the Torah that christianity borrowed. Lets look at say mmmm the Noah flood story. The Egyptians predate this with their stories. When Moses was tripping on drugs up on that mountain writing down things "God" told him to that was at the furthest around 3,500 BC. Ancient Sumerian stories predate that. Flood Myth, human origins ect.

You have to stop using your "Faith" as a justification for your answers. If you really have some inner most feeling that influences your thoughts and emotions, see a doctor ok.

Firstly, I am hardly a whelp.

I never denied the Jewish past and basis for Christianity. Since I know that the Torah IS the Old Testament of the Bible, I don't consider that it pre-dates itself.

The structure of Genesis would indicate that it was written on clay tablets in Sumerian/Akkadian style with "link passages" and attributions that bridged it between tablets. The attributions (toledot in Hebrew) also indicate the name of the writer, not who the tablet story was about. It is most usual that the writer was also the witness to the events and his name on the tablet indicates the writer as a witness in legal terms.

If you take the structure of Genesis, each "narrative segment" ends with a key sentence and an attribution which has been mistranslated to mean "the generations of" but the context of the text is not a geneology. The specific mistranslated word is "toledot" which can also mean witness or account. Then the key sentence is repeated (this was usually at the start of the next tablet) and, along with the attribution, tied the tablets together, indicating the order in which they were to be read. In other words, Genesis appears to be individual accounts taken from clay tablets and transposed onto animal skins into a single document.

It is entirely likely that Moses was aware of the histories of the Hebrew people, their language and customs and combined that with his education as part of Egyptian royalty and transcribed the less than portable Clay tablet library to animal skin scrolls (similar to papyrus scrolls but more durable), producing the account we call Genesis. This would indicate that Genesis is eyewitness accounts which pre-date the Egyptian, Sumerian and other accounts.

You stated that the Sumerian account predates Moses (3,500 BC in your statement). The Sumerian civilization that produced the Enuma Elish and similar accounts did not come into existence until invaded by the Akkadian Empire in 2270 BC, over a thousand years later.

There is no evidence of Moses tripping on drugs on the mountainside. The rest of the Hebrew nation (about 1.2 million people) were also eyewitness to the fire & cloud and shaking of the mountain. Your attestation that he did so is denied by all accounts.

All through the last 5,500 years of history, documents of Jewish history have been lost or forgotten. This does not indicate that the documents that we do have as the Bible, have been changed in purpose or meaning, in significant ways, since then. The Nazi's burned huge numbers of books but I don't think they instituted any change in the Biblical texts whatsoever. Your argument, while emotive, is logically flawed.

My faith, to me, is unassailable. (If I did go to a doctor about it, what could they do about it?) It is entirely normal for human beings to experience religious epiphanies. It happens in all cultures and religions, even outside of religions. When such revelations of the divine agree with experience and academic study, ie: spiritual, emotional and intellectual are in total agreement, it constitutes a significant assurance in the lives of those so blessed, as it does in mine.

reply to post by superman2012


Jesus never killed.

He was sinless. He never broke any of the 613 laws.

The Bible has little account of Jesus after his birth, until He turned water to wine at a wedding, when He was 21.

The only exception was when He got left behind at the Temple in Jerusalem when He was 12 and was found explaining the scriptures to the amazed Rabbi's there.

No account at all of Him doing anything else as a child.

reply to post by manna2


The point is this was excluded from what is accepted today as The Bible. It should be in the Bible. A rewrite may include removals. The book of Enoch was regarded as scripture at one time. It's exclusion proves today's Bible is biased propaganda.

reply to post by chr0naut


He killed 3 people in The Infancy Gospel of Thomas.

reply to post by chr0naut


It is interesting to read everyone's thoughts (arguments) but I think this is one of those topics that could go on forever and ever. I wish I could turn some water in to wine right about now!