Occupy Wall St - The New Common Sense

See, the reason I am challenging you is simple...

If you want to succeed in growing your movement, you need to be able to explain the political philosophy in a few words. Simply going out to the masses and saying read this big piece of paper with a gazillion words.. or say "go read the OP" won't work.

If you go back and read my posts, I didn't put down the movement...in fact, I was hoping you would or could convince me to support OWS. Instead I get bombarded with condescending commentary. Again, you are going to get people that are inquisitive and potentially will support OWS, but if they are treated as iggnorant because they may not understand some of the more abstract ideals you aspire to... you will not grow and in fact will die.

I recall a professor in college. he always opened his exams with the following statement..." There are no wrong answers, just be able to support your argument.... using names, dates, people, and facts."

Frankly, with the attitude dispalyed here...you have not convinced me that I should support you... not that you need me. However, there are many people like me with money and community ties and experience... the so-called "silent majority" that you will need in order to make a mark on the current government and economic system.

May I use an analogy...

The current system is a kitchen...has cabinets and a fridge full of ingredients. You want an apple pie and I want an apple pie.

I decide to use the current utensils and ingredients available to make an apple pie... and do so. It comes out all warm and buttery and juicy, full of apples and crusty... I eat some and offer to share the apple pie I just made...you are welcome to some of my pie.

What I hear from you is this... you want apple pie, and you want to take someone else's apple pie...eat some and share it with others... even though you made no effort to help make it... you feel it is your right to have some of this pie you didn't work for or make... and you feel free to disperse this pie to others that didn't help to produce it.

It isn't fair that others have a pie and you don't...

You are still welcome to some of the pie and I will freely give it... but you will not take it from me...

Likewise, you are welcome to my support, but you have to earn it... it isn't for the taking.

reply to post by beezzer


words over time in a society can be intentionally moved,
moved from the meaning of the word at the time,
to something completly different over the course of a few generations.
this serves to obsecure the true meaning and intent of documenty recordings or documents in history,
this changing evolving use of the meaning of words in the language can obsecure the true meaning of the word commonly used in current language as compaired to its historical meaning,

this example,
the congress of the united states must "coin" money for use,
the today langugae is that coin is only metal monies,
and this has allowed "notes" be be regulated by the private federal reserve.

the true meaning of money has been perverted with the changing of the meaning within society of "coin"
this has a major impact on how you live your life and how you "enjoy" your freedom.

to simply clarify with todays language and intent, the individual powers we are tempereraly giving and to what extent they may be wielded on our behalf.

to ensure there are no powers not deligated by the people being used to SUBJUGATE
and to list all powers as agreed by the people, states, and federal govenment in that order

xploder

reply to post by AlreadyGone


The problem with "explaining our position in 145 characters or less" is that by doing that, you minimize the arguments and that will not do the topic justice. This is a time for serious discussion, and asking me to narrow down my argument makes me think that you dont feel that there is a serious problem, and that you want an easy, simple, solution. That unfortunately is not the case. There is no easy, simple, solution. Just as you asked us to support our argument with facts, figures and data, it is all included in the OP. It covers a few topics, and yes, I know it is long, but it is well worth the read. I feel that if you did take the hour or so to read the OP in its entirety, a lot of your questions would be answered, as it explains quite a bit, and is a fairly solid argument that states the OWS position quite clearly.You ask me to sway you, to bring you out of the silent majority.

The problems that we face are large, and need a serious look at what they are, the background of what caused these problems, and what we can do about it. People always ask "well what is your message?" This is that message. I do hope you end up taking the time to read it, and i do think when you are finished, you will realize why it is important that you read it. I am not trying to waste your time.

I am offering you the pie, you just need to take a bite and chew on it for a while, and let us know if you like the flavor.

Meh, the problem, is to many Idiots, live in this country, and have no idea, what their constitution says, what rights they have, and how they can utilize them to prevent, things from happening in their country..

Sadly thou this ignorance and stupidity, has be noticed and utilized by the people in Washington, and where ever else politicians exist in our country, and now by the time people start realizing their rights these same politicians, will pit the people against themselves, as they already have..


If you ask me, all in all the people as a whole are just dumb, brainwashed morons...

In the long run, as cute and pretty as the OWS, seems to look, its way to late for a peaceful, change in our country, swear to you, with all my heart, our congressmen, and senators, do not give a rats arse about you.. Maybe they do after they know, they themselves are safe and their family, oh and their money, YOU, THE PEOPLE.. are at the bottum of the list...

Idiots I tell you..

Idiots..

I look forward to reading this "document" when I am home from work. I have been watching this whole "movement" and feel confident that this may help my finalization of quantifying just what it is in my assessment.

reply to post by Vizzle


i would like to point out the wording of some sections seams to imply that unaliaenable rights are given by the govenement,

21.We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all are created equal regardless of their financial status. -- That we free Citizens of the United States are without exception endowed under a Federal Constitution granting us certain unalienable Rights.

the rights are not granted by the documents, they are aualiaeable to each and every person.
in the instences where it is stated that the constitution is granting rights it should be clarifyed

unaliable rights cannot be legislated away they are not granted they are present in each person regaurdless of what laws are passed and cannot be legislated away.

the correction should define the idea that these rights are not able to be granted or removed as they exist in each and every person regaurdless of legislation as a birth right.

xploder

still taking in the ideas expressed,
piece and light

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


This was actually covered by the authors here. I will quote their response below. I have found some of the wording funny myself, and they are still working on updating the original doc with the feedback that they are receiving from people like yourself who read it. It is a work in progress, but a great work imo none the less. If you would like to provide feedback directly to the authors about the document, you can do so through the pastebin link above.

I want to thank you for taking the time to read it, as I know how long it is.

(Reply to oPHILOSORAPTORo: The language is actually correct in regards to the statement we are making. Please notice the use of the word unalienable (not inalianable). There is a big difference between the two. Please see: www.unalienable.com... for more information. If we were speaking of inalienable rights in that case, yes, you would be correct, the Constitution does not (and cannot) grant anything that is already inalienable. However, it does, in fact, enumerate and grant (meaning, officially restate) a list of unalienable rights (that happen to also be inalienable) that we share. There are other inalienable rights that we have, also, that are not even listed in the Constitution (the right to breathe, for example), as well. Thank you for bringing this up because it does give us this chance to better explain the language that we carefully used in that paragraph. )

reply to post by Vizzle


thank you for the clarifycation
i was only concerned that incorrect wording may cause a missunderstanding,
and i accept that the definition and use is consistent.

thank you

xploder

Originally posted by Ahabstar
I look forward to reading this "document" when I am home from work. I have been watching this whole "movement" and feel confident that this may help my finalization of quantifying just what it is in my assessment.

I am genuinely curious here. What exactly do you "hope" to find? I sense a great deal of bias from anyone that has to put "document" in quotes. Is there something that tells you already this document does not actually qualify as a document? I ask because I feel it speaks to a larger truth about your viewpoint. What makes it not really a document?

Originally posted by KendraSins

Originally posted by Ahabstar
I look forward to reading this "document" when I am home from work. I have been watching this whole "movement" and feel confident that this may help my finalization of quantifying just what it is in my assessment.

I am genuinely curious here. What exactly do you "hope" to find? I sense a great deal of bias from anyone that has to put "document" in quotes. Is there something that tells you already this document does not actually qualify as a document? I ask because I feel it speaks to a larger truth about your viewpoint. What makes it not really a document?

I thought it sounded like s/he was saying this could be a major factor on which side of the fence s/he falls on in regards to supporting or not supporting OWS. I do hope that s/he takes the time to read it, and look forward to their repsonse.

Originally posted by Ahabstar
I look forward to reading this "document" when I am home from work. I have been watching this whole "movement" and feel confident that this may help my finalization of quantifying just what it is in my assessment.

i have been waiting to hear your viewpoint

do you care to share your thoughts?

i personally agree with the sentiments expressed by the unity document
xploder