Occupy Wall St - The New Common Sense

reply to post by AlreadyGone


Can OWS do what the Tea Party did? You mean get Co-opted by a political party and the Koch brothers? Probably not, as we dont support ANY political party. The Tea Party is dead until they walk away from the republican party. As to running our own candidates, how long did it take the Tea Party to put forth a candidate? And if you say Palin, I will laugh.

reply to post by Vizzle


That is why I am asking you or the OWS... what plans are in place to achieve what the Tea Party did?....They have Congressmen in place, by way of Constitutional elections, and voted on by a majority in their respective districts.

So... OWs has been heard. We have seen their message and the people that make up the OWS. So... what is the next step and what plans are in place to make it happen by way of the US Constitution OWS supports? Or will OWS becoma a perpetual encampment?

reply to post by AlreadyGone


Comparing the Tea Party, which has been around over 2 years (almost 3 now) to OWS, which has been around for 2 months as of a few days ago, is comparing apples to oranges. You may want to read the document in the OP in its entirety, as it is apparent that you have not read it, as it answers some of your posts itself. It takes about an hour to get through. As to a perpetual encampment and protests, that is up to the government, and how soon they put a stop to their corruption, the corruption of the Fed, and Wall St. Maybe you can ring up one of your congressmen you got elected, and see how they feel about the corruption of which I speak and what they plan to do about it. Heck, send them the pastbin link to the OP

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
reply to post by Vizzle

 

That is why I am asking you or the OWS... what plans are in place to achieve what the Tea Party did?....They have Congressmen in place, by way of Constitutional elections, and voted on by a majority in their respective districts.

They do? I think you are confused. There are Republicans in office that were supported by the TEA party who have so far done nothing different than any Republicans in office before them. Some have even turned out to be worse. So you are bragging about getting people into office in your name that do nothing to represent you? What an acheivment.

So... OWs has been heard. We have seen their message and the people that make up the OWS. So... what is the next step and what plans are in place to make it happen by way of the US Constitution OWS supports? Or will OWS becoma a perpetual encampment?

The TEA party was heard long before they shut up too. This is not much of an argument you have here.

reply to post by KendraSins


What you are doing is attacking a group to deflect a weak argument on your part...ie the Tea Party, using them as a "red herring" in debate terms. I was using them as an example in contrast to what OWS has done politically.

Irregardless of who drives the Tea Party, and since it is the mission of OWS to end corruption and influence as demonstrated in the Tea Party... what is OWS going to do next?

What is the message of OWS in about 10 simple statements? How do you intend to get it out? And what plans are in place to do so with in the confines of the US Constitution you support? How will candidates be chosen, since OWS is supposedly a leaderless movement?

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
reply to post by KendraSins

 

What you are doing is attacking a group to deflect a weak argument on your part...ie the Tea Party, using them as a "red herring" in debate terms.

No I am not. You brought them up and you made a false assertion which I called you on. That would be why this response from you contains exactly NOTHING in rebuttal.

I was using them as an example in contrast to what OWS has done politically.

And you failed miserably. Do not get mad at me for noticing.

Irregardless of who drives the Tea Party, and since it is the mission of OWS to end corruption and influence as demonstrated in the Tea Party... what is OWS going to do next?

Nope. You keep trying to ask what they are going to do in comparison with the TEA party and so far all you can say that they have to live up to is a lie you have presented. Not really much of a goal.

Irregardless is not a word.

What is the message of OWS in about 10 simple statements? How do you intend to get it out? And what plans are in place to do so with in the confines of the US Constitution you support? How will candidates be chosen, since OWS is supposedly a leaderless movement?

Pretty interesting shift in conversation. I call your lie about the TEA party and you ask me to speak for OWS on another subjext.

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
reply to post by KendraSins

 

What you are doing is attacking a group to deflect a weak argument on your part...ie the Tea Party, using them as a "red herring" in debate terms. I was using them as an example in contrast to what OWS has done politically.

3 years / 2 months - again, apples and oranges. I also didnt see Tea Party members getting arrested, members of the media getting arrested at Tea Party events, or tear gassed. Your argument here is moot.

Irregardless of who drives the Tea Party, and since it is the mission of OWS to end corruption and influence as demonstrated in the Tea Party... what is OWS going to do next?

Read the OP in its entirety and find out. Sheesh. Read OP, then comment. Is that to much to ask. Show some respect and come to the party prepared to talk about the OP.

What is the message of OWS in about 10 simple statements? How do you intend to get it out? And what plans are in place to do so with in the confines of the US Constitution you support? How will candidates be chosen, since OWS is supposedly a leaderless movement?

Sorry our message is a bit to complex for you. You would be better off reading the OP in its entirety. Here is some old fodder for you, and is not from the OP, so really shouldnt be discussed here, since it is off topic.

1. We, the People, propose a system whereas bank regulators are, not in fact, the banks themselves

2. We propose the separation of utility banking and investment banking because of the inevitable fractional reserve banking crisis that it creates. The separation which existed in the United States under the Glass-Steagall Act, till its repeal in 1990

3. We propose the investigation in to the Ponzi-schemes of JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, RBS, Barclays, Lloyds and many many more

4. We propose the investigation into the paper trails and fraudulent accounts of Osborne, Clinton, Rothschild, Bernanke, Rockerfeller, King, Dimon, Cheney, The Chicago Boys and many many more.

5. We propose the ban of high frequency trading transfers, an electronic weapon designed specifically to steal fraudulent money from honest people's mortgages, pensions and savings.

6. We propose an end to a system, which by the very nature of itself, produces corporations more powerful than our country's elected governments, thus eliminating our country's democracy.

Originally posted by theovermensch
Most haters wont read anything longer than a couple sentences..

1 - Pointing out the flaws in OWS doesn't make someone a 'hater'. It makes them AWARE of the issues.

2 - You lump everyone who isn't OWS into one single group and disparage them ... isn't that what you are complaining about having done to the OWS group ?? So why do it to someone else?

From the document -

A Declaration of INTERDEPENDENCE, born of necessity, from and for the collective conscience of the "99%" to and for the oligarchic "1%" of the United States of America

This is ABSURD. Their 'declaration' definately is NOT 'from and for' the 99%. Simple use of google will pull up the statistics on how many Americans support OWS. Less than 1/3 agree with them. Most either disagree or simply don't care. It is obnoxious for the protesters to claim that they are speaking for 99% of Americans.

Funny how they used the word 'collective conscience'.
OWS = Borg zombies.

Originally posted by Vizzle
I also didnt see Tea Party members getting arrested, members of the media getting arrested at Tea Party events, or tear gassed.

Um ... because they didn't break the law. Because they didn't poop and pee everywhere causing unsanitary conditions. Because they didn't have rapes in squatters tents. Because they didn't use their children as human shields (DC). Because they didn't cause havoc and destruction and didn't steal from the small business' around their rallies.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by theovermensch
Most haters wont read anything longer than a couple sentences..

1 - Pointing out the flaws in OWS doesn't make someone a 'hater'. It makes them AWARE of the issues.

2 - You lump everyone who isn't OWS into one single group and disparage them ... isn't that what you are complaining about having done to the OWS group ?? So why do it to someone else?

From the document -

A Declaration of INTERDEPENDENCE, born of necessity, from and for the collective conscience of the "99%" to and for the oligarchic "1%" of the United States of America

This is ABSURD. Their 'declaration' definately is NOT 'from and for' the 99%. Simple use of google will pull up the statistics on how many Americans support OWS. Less than 1/3 agree with them. Most either disagree or simply don't care. It is obnoxious for the protesters to claim that they are speaking for 99% of Americans.

Funny how they used the word 'collective conscience'.
OWS = Borg zombies.

Read the OP in its entirety, as there is a section called "definitions" that you may find relevant to your comments here. I see you didnt read more than a couple of sentences. Sounds like theovermensch hit the nail right on the head.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Vizzle
I also didnt see Tea Party members getting arrested, members of the media getting arrested at Tea Party events, or tear gassed.

Um ... because they didn't break the law. Because they didn't poop and pee everywhere causing unsanitary conditions. Because they didn't have rapes in squatters tents. Because they didn't use their children as human shields (DC). Because they didn't cause havoc and destruction and didn't steal from the small business' around their rallies.

So the members of the media that were arrested were guilty of this as well? I havent been arrested, nor am i guilty of any of the offenses that you have mentioned. neither are a majority of the people arrested at the protests.

reply to post by FlyersFan


No TEA partiers broke the law, got arrested, or just acted badly?
All of OWS is crapping in the street?

You dont seem the least bit brainwashed by the media. I guess the next time a TEA partier tries to blow up a mosque I can remember how funny you are.

Originally posted by Vizzle
I see you didnt read more than a couple of sentences. .

Wrong.

Originally posted by Vizzle
nor am i guilty of any of the offenses that you have mentioned. neither are a majority of the people arrested at the protests

And you know this ... how? Listening to the left wing shill machine MSNBC?

Originally posted by KendraSins
No TEA partiers broke the law, got arrested, or just acted badly?
All of OWS is crapping in the street?

Those are the facts.
And I didn't say 'all OWS is crapping in the street' ... but many are.
Thus the unsanitary conditions and disease outbreaks.
(and the right to arrest them)

You dont seem the least bit brainwashed by the media.

I'm not. But the OWS zombie brigade certainly is. Refusal to see what's wrong with the 'movement' and admit that big union $$ is involved and that the O-bots at the OWS rallies chanting 'four more years' and 'yes we can' .. even though Obama takes big Wall Street donations and has bailed them out ... this = ZOMBIES.

I guess the next time a TEA partier tries to blow up a mosque I can remember how funny you are.

Next time? Yeah right. Source?
Talking about funny. OWS zombie apocolypse = what a hoot.
Seriously ... the facts are that the majority of the US citizens do NOT support OWS.
The facts are that a majority of the OWS that is left are breaking laws and being unsanitary.
Them's the facts bud ... read 'em and accept reality.

reply to post by FlyersFan


This one is neat too Doing it big, Tea Party

oh awesome Child Rapists for Tea Party!

Racism? Check

Dunno if you want to keep up the innocent act. Really, raping a 7 year old girl. This is what your Tea Party is? (see how that works, you find one bad apple, and now the whole group is bad)

And you know this ... how? Listening to the left wing shill machine MSNBC?

No, by actively taking part in not only regular protests, by being there to shut down the port of oakland. By being there. By participating. By getting tear gassed. By protecting businesses from getting looted after their windows were broken. By being a medic at Occupy Oakland. By practicing non-violent protest. By not accepting the violence that has been hidden by the media. By correcting the lies of the MSM.

just curious, should i find you some more "crime associated with the tea party" links. That child rape one was great, wasnt it?

just cause

Originally posted by Vizzle
reply to post by beezzer

 

Just curious. Do you see a problem with this?

Obama white house/Goldman Sachs links

As a matter of fact, I do. Crony-capitalism, graft, whatever you want to call it; is corruption.

I'm all for a clean sweep and making our government smaller as a result.

reply to post by Vizzle
I did miss the fact that you were endorsing the use of the Constitution.

Is this new?

So you are soley Constitution-based in your approach?

If that's the case, why bother with this Occupy drivel?

The US Constitution, The Bill of Rights should cover any issue.

You bring up corruption, using existing laws if they were ever applied would eliminate much of this.

Getting honest people in office where they wouldn't let themselves get influenced would help.

Stopping all monies from corporations, unions, PAC's, special interest groups to politicians would help.

Making government smaller would help.

Cutting spending back to 1988 levels would help.

reply to post by FlyersFan


do you understand the meaning of a 'collective conscience'?

Collective consciousness was a term coined by the French sociologist Émile Durkheim (1858–1917) to refer to the shared beliefs and moral attitudes which operate as a unifying force within society.

please dont call the moral values shared between the people of a society that is unifying "a zomibie mentality"

it is uncalled for and as acually an insult.
some would call it "the moral fibre" that holds a society together,

others explain it diferently,
Imagine for 1 minute a single thought or action that "everyone would agree" is self true and evident.
if this thought or action is for the benifit of the society as a whole,
the moral conscience of the "individuals" are collectivly expressed for the benifit of the nation.

xploder

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
reply to post by Vizzle

 

That is why I am asking you or the OWS... what plans are in place to achieve what the Tea Party did?....They have Congressmen in place, by way of Constitutional elections, and voted on by a majority in their respective districts.

So... OWs has been heard. We have seen their message and the people that make up the OWS. So... what is the next step and what plans are in place to make it happen by way of the US Constitution OWS supports? Or will OWS becoma a perpetual encampment?

IMHO,
the first thing OWS did was to regognise that leaders will be corrupted as a matter of course in the current environment. sending good representitives into a place that is corrupt will enevitably corup them if it is pervasive within the law makers, one of my friends reconds it would be like going to a new job and pointing out that all are only allowed 30 mins for lunch in stead of the current hour enjoyed by all.

when coruption is entrenched to try to fight it from the inside is very difficult.

why is their no leader?
it is a show of collective will or collective concience that they self assemble with no leader,
a statement upon the lack of representation and the corruption that pervades current leaders in washington and all over the world.

to show the people are that power which grants these representitives their power.
and to serve an example in that the age we are in, the age of equality and a return to the founding moral fibre that made america great. and corrupt representitives are now against the collective wishes of the comunity and only serve to be corrupted.

OWS has transended the usual paradime of control, the self assembly of the people for the people show the true power of a people over a govenment,
every single person is equal and every single person has a voice.
it is their agreement to the social contract that binds the power that the law makers use.
when the corrupt accepted to make laws that did not apply to themselves,
and to take money to pass laws not in the best interest of the people

they broke that contract.

they now represent money (free speach)
and corperations (political doners and lobyists)

when a representitive can spend less than 20% of his time lobbying and recieve 3 Million over three years and it not be considered a bribe because the 20% threashold is not broken and therefore the rep must not register as a PAID lobbyest.

when representitives pass only bills in favour of companies and never in the public interest and are given preferentual IPOs and stock purchases, this too is not corruption and is exempt from the laws that govern the wider non representitive comunity.

these things are self evident and are not disputed by even the representitives themselves.

money is not free speach
it is a cancer destroying representation
a republic requires all who live by its laws to poliece the law makers to ensure the moral public representation

xploder

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Vizzle

 

I did miss the fact that you were endorsing the use of the Constitution.

Is this new?

So you are soley Constitution-based in your approach?

If that's the case, why bother with this Occupy drivel?

The US Constitution, The Bill of Rights should cover any issue.

You bring up corruption, using existing laws if they were ever applied would eliminate much of this.

Getting honest people in office where they wouldn't let themselves get influenced would help.

Stopping all monies from corporations, unions, PAC's, special interest groups to politicians would help.

Making government smaller would help.

Cutting spending back to 1988 levels would help.

I am for all of this. You know, you almost sound like an Occupier =)