Police 'killed deaf cyclist with stun gun after he failed to obey instructions to stop'

Police here in the United States are not properly trained to recognize individuals with mental illness, mental impairment, or physical impairment. They assume that everybody who has trouble walking or pedaling a bike is either high or drunk.

The agency I used to work for had to regularly have case workers go get their clients out of jail, their only crime being not able to fully comprehend the commands given to them by the cops. Typically, the angrier the cop got, the more confused and upset the client became, so these clients would attempt to run away because they were scared and thought they were in trouble, although they don't know what they did.

The days of police being our helpers and protectors is long gone. They are trained to view the entire population as one guilty entity that had better obey or else.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by spacedonk

 

Wow.... Based on the info in the article its looking like the officers need to go back through training on use of force when no crime has been committed. Of course that retraining wont occur, again based on info in the article, because they will be too busy defending themselves in court.

This looks like a huge over reaction. Im still trying for the life of me to figure out why they thought using a taser to stop an individual who broke no law was a good idea.

Unless more info comes out thats not reported in the article that changes the situation, the officers need to be investigated and if appropriate under N. Carolina law, charged.

edit on 24-11-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

This is why people think the way they do about police in this country. Its because when something like this happens the officer is always placed above the law and nobody does anything about it. What about the guy that got 3 years for murdering someone while on duty? 3 #ing years? Really?! Im so sick of this "Im God Im the POlice Im above the law" bull#. Your job is not to be out there tasing 60 year olds that have done nothing wrong. And no Im not overreacting Im sincerely upset. This THUG, because thats what he is a THUG, needs to be placed in prison for murder but it wont happen. There is no justice for this man.

Here it is right here. King Kong aint got # on me.



I apologize in advance to the outstanding men and women that do their job with honour and respect day in day out. But something needs to change. You cant have these kids or even vets running tasing people for no damn reason. There are good cops out there and I thank you for your service, but you need to have your voice just a little bit louder when this happens because they're giving you this bad name.

This man was killed. A murder took place. Where is the justice? At the very least this "officer" should be held in custody right now down the jail with the rest of the people locked up in our "innocent until proven guilty" hell holes.

Im done. Rant is over. Im going to go eat my turkey and sleep.

A stun gun. is so they dont have to shoot and kill them.
some times you dont need to kill some one who May have a gun.
Cops are cowerds, sceard to get in to a fight.
so they shoot them.

It is Not for some cop who does not have the time to put some efert in to the job.
cops have NO respect for people any more.
So people have No respect for cops at all.

In my own personal opinion, those cops should be charged with murder and thrown in jail. Why couldn't they stop a guy on a bike for goodness sake? They are a law unto themselves.

reply to post by spacedonk


Ever seen how the cops handled the deaf wood carver? Look that video up.
It never ends. The terrorists won by creating a police state in which cops do their job for them. Americans have more reason to be afraid of being killed by a cop than by a terrorist. Shame huh?

This officer should be arrested, if the man was not being charged he had every right to ride away.
pig scum

I think the Police Departments have started a Decepticon Training Program... Barricade, the Decepticon Cop Car had "To Punish and Enslave" instead of "To Serve and Protect" written nicely on its rear quarter panel...

I wonder how much taxpayers money this will cost the department when they get sued.

I can not see how any jury would not throw the book at the department in this case.

reply to post by spacedonk


It's obviously becoming increasingly difficult to take your adult child with a disability outside your home or even allow them on the streets alone anymore. It appears these adult kids and their parents have more to fear of Police than mainstream civilians. That tells me the lack of training Police have in regards to disabilities and what complete idiots are in the Police Force.

In this particular case, I'd be about right Police tasered him because he was black.

reply to post by ANNED


Because the gentleman had a disability, the family would get half of what a victim without a disability would receive because those with disabilities (bearing in mind his age) are regarded as second class citizens to the population at large. Sad sad world.

I hope the Police officer is forced to resign and charges are laid.

As bad as this sounds, the Police put out requests like this every day. What should they do, assume everyone who disobeys them is deaf?

Should the person ho breaks into your apartment not be treated like a criminal in case they are deaf. Should the speeding motorist not be asked when pulled over to put his hans behind his back in case he is deaf?

What is the solution? All you've put up is an incident assuming the Police are in the wrong.

reply to post by daggyz


If the victim did'nt commit an offence.....the Police ARE in the wrong - period!

Originally posted by daggyz
As bad as this sounds, the Police put out requests like this every day. What should they do, assume everyone who disobeys them is deaf?

Should the person ho breaks into your apartment not be treated like a criminal in case they are deaf. Should the speeding motorist not be asked when pulled over to put his hans behind his back in case he is deaf?

What is the solution? All you've put up is an incident assuming the Police are in the wrong.

Uh the cops could have drove ahead oh him with their lights on, or just turned their lights on so he saw the flashing lights. One of thousands of things they could have chose to do that were not assaulting a man for apparently not listening immediately.

Originally posted by daggyz
As bad as this sounds, the Police put out requests like this every day. What should they do, assume everyone who disobeys them is deaf?

Should the person ho breaks into your apartment not be treated like a criminal in case they are deaf. Should the speeding motorist not be asked when pulled over to put his hans behind his back in case he is deaf?

What is the solution? All you've put up is an incident assuming the Police are in the wrong.

Ridiculous! Since when was riding a bicycle an offence? Hardly the same as breaking into an apartment, now is it! YOU DON'T TASER PEOPLE AT THE DROP OF A HAT! It's dangerous. It kills people. I'm trying to be restrained here, but seriously! I hope to Christ you're not on the force.

reply to post by spacedonk


Wear a Faraday suit.! or chain mail, either will protect you from stun guns, then you can just laugh at the cop as he tries to constantly shock you.

I myself would pretent to get hurt by it then just stand up and yawn while ripping the wires away. saying "who else wants to give it ago?"

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
I'm still trying to figure out what laws this poor obviously compromised person could have broke, and why anyone (law enforcers and non) would see this person (look at the picture) as a threat to anyone, that would require ANY measurable force at all.... I mean... Really WTF??

edit on 24-11-2011 by Fractured.Facade because: (no reason given)

There are a few different scenarios I can think of that could require law enforcement forced contact. First being check the well being - People called in stating the guy appeared intoxicated on his bike. Absent more info about the area the individual was in (traffic etc) its s tretch to force the contact. If the person, even intoxicated, appears to be behaving in a manner that presents a danger to himself or others, law enforcement could act. Again though I dont see anything in the article that would give credence to either assumption.

Some states do have laws that deal specifically with public intoxication. The State I do law enforcement in has established case law making any ordinace / law regarding public intoxication unconstitutional and is categorized as a status offense.

Im not sure if N. Carolina has such law and if they do and its valid in that state (Im not sure about your background in law - The only way a law from one state can affect another state is if the origional court case makes it to the federal appeals level, and only then if the states are in the same federal appeals circuit. Absent that it would require Supreme Court ruling to apply the standard across all states).

Either way, based on the infoin the article, I dont see any justification for deploying a taser in this manner. Granted when an officer gives a person an order to stop the individual must comply (legality of such action is made in court, and not with the officer). Refusing to comply could result in resisting a lawful detention / arrest, failure to obey a lawful command etc.

However since the person is deaf, I dont see either argument holding any water even with the standard in place to review use of force as what did the officers perceive the exact moment they used force. Hindsight being 20/20, we arent allowed to view the situation in that manner for review.

However, it doesnt look like the officers did enough upon initial contact to justify the actions.

Again, using the info in the article.

An Internal Affairs investigation will be done.
An outside agency, usually the State Police, will be requested to do the main investigation, with the officers agency doing a paralell investigation.
Depending on the outcome its possible for the FBI to do an investigation into civil rights violations.


What a mess...

reply to post by MysticPearl


While I think you are over dramatizing law enforcement an dits actions, you fail to understand adequately the laws which govern law enforcement actions You ignore the fact the media will report on officer issues while ignoring everything we do correctly since its not news worthy.

Before you lump all law enforcement into the same boat how about you do some due dilligence and actually research officer use of force and crime statistics, which the FBI put out every year and is available on the DOJ website, before simply believing what the media tells you to believe.

Respectfully.

reply to post by FissionSurplus


Actually we are trained to recignize those factors. The problem we often run into is taking off our law enforcement hat and putting on a doctors hat. We arent allowed to diagnose anyone, regardless of how much medical training / experience we have. I spent 6-7 years working in public safety in a level 1 trauma facility. I can recognize drugs, both legal and illegal, there effects on a person, how to handle it etc.

However, in a court of law I cant testify as an expoert on drugs, nor am I a certified Drug Recognituion Expert. Knowing that out on the street we are forced to take that into consideration.

The vehicle we are behind who exhibits all the signs of being intoxicated nehind the wheel. Is the driver really intoxicated? Are they just sleepy? Are they drunk? Or are they suffering from ketoacidosis? That medical condition mimics intoxication, right down to the smell, inability to multi task etc etc etc.

If we arrest a person and they request medical attention, most agency policies forbid an officer from denying the request, even if the officer knows the person requesting is lying. If we refuse it and the person is injured or dies, the first question we are asked in court -

Officer are you a trained medical professional capable of diagnosing a patient with a medical condition?
Officer if you arent capable of diagnosing, why did you refuse the medical treatment request?

Which is followed up with the officer asking the family how many zeros they would like after the 1 on the settlement check.

Its not as easy as some would suggest that an officer can easily distinguish between a medical issue and a criminal issue. Even having illegal drugs in your system (meth, coc aine etc) can be enough to warrant a trip to the hospital instead of booking.

Im not condoning the officer actions in the article, and my opinion of this is based on the facts in that article. I am however pointing out sometmes the diagonosis is not as easy as people would think , especially if you only have a few seonds as an officer to decide.

Food for thought.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Thanks for your calm, inciteful input into this thread. To be a bore, my original point which I used this story to highlight, was the proposed increased deployment of tasers in the UK: specifically by the London Metropolitan Police Force. As a law enforcement officer, could you say whether you think increased access will equal increased usage?

Is it something you can see becoming the first instead of one of the last resorts for you or your colleagues when apprehending suspects?

Can you say how often you deploy yours (assuming you use one)?

In what scenario beyond 'man with gun' type of situation do you feel it to be not only justified but better for the perp to use a taser?

ty for your time again.