Anti Zionism is not Racist: Why Zionists Pretend Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semtic

I propose an ignore the haters policy. You know who they are.

I propose the opposite. I propose we continue to debate them, highlighting their ignorance and tactics for all to see.

OK, I can assist with the verbal offensive. It isn't exactly difficult for anyone who sees through their lies and hatred. However, I have a part to attend shortly so will have to rejoin the debate later.

You know whose side I'm on guys. Stick it to em.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by JohhnyBGood

 

Yes it does - I am stating that (as far as muslims are concerned) 'anti-zionism' is just handy political cover for the real issue - jihad!

Which still doesn't equate anti-zionism to antisemitism. And no, your point doesn't have any validity because those Muslims weren't anti-zionist as the modern form of Zionism didn't even exist yet.

No - 'those' muslims were simply concerned with jihad , which is aimed foremost at the jews 'their eternal enemies' Since it would be politically unacceptable for their fellow travelers amongst the left - they have disguised it as 'anti-zionism'

Muslims are anti-jewish by definition, leftists pretend not to notice it and tell them to say 'antizionist'

Anti-Zionism for leftists is merely anti-USism, anti-colonialism - or more accurately just being usefull idiots for Communist interests.

The reverse is also true.. anti-semetics often try to disguise their unreasoning hatred by claiming they are merely anti-zionist.

You really need a program to keep all the players and their roles paired up.

shalom

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Anti-Zionism for leftists is merely anti-USism, anti-colonialism - or more accurately just being usefull idiots for Communist interests.

Because colonialism is just so cool right.

Zionism is a philosophy espoused by useful idiots for the colonialists and ruling elite.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by Rockdisjoint

 

you can be dammned sure he has in mind the extermination of every single Israeli - followed soon after by the extermination of every last jew on earth!

Well if I was sure, I'd spell it correctly. Must be nice having the ability to read peoples deepest thoughts and to also see the future.

So, going from his remarks he wants to wipe every Jew off the face of the earth (even though we both know he didn't say that) what does that say about the Israeli leaders referring to the Palestinians as cattle, beasts on two legs, grasshoppers to have their heads smashed against the rocks?

edit on 24-11-2011 by phishyblankwaters because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-11-2011 by phishyblankwaters because: (no reason given)

No I don't have to use telepathy to know what A'jad really means - he is a 12'ver - if you wern't so completely ignorant you would understand what that means!

As for 'lies and hate speech' - just who do you think you are kidding?

Investigation--Example 2: Internet hate sites, as well as Fisk, attribute this derogation of Palestnians as “two-legged beasts” to former Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin. www.camera.org...

The source generally given is: Menachem Begin, as quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts,"New Statesman, June 25, 1982 Indeed, the radical French-Israeli journalist, Amnon Kapeliouk, did attribute such a quote to Begin in his New Statesman article criticizing Israel’s invasion of Lebanon. The author posited: For this reason the government has gone to extraordinary lengths to dehumanise the Palestinians. Begin described them in a speech in the Knesset as "beasts walking on two legs"


However, further investigation by CAMERA reveals that the actual speech upon which Kapeliouk based his quote, as well as news reports at the time demonstrate that the journalist distorted the quote, giving it a completely different tone and meaning.

Begin was talking, not about "the Palestinians" but about terrorists who target children within Israel. On June 8, 1982, Begin addressed the Knesset in response to a no-confidence motion over Israel's invasion of Lebanon. He talked about defending the children of Israel, and according to a June 9, 1982 AP report, “his voice quaver[ed] with anger and sadness.”

According to the minutes of the session, Begin stated: The children of Israel will happily go to school and joyfully return home, just like the children in Washington, in Moscow, and in Peking, in Paris and in Rome, in Oslo, in Stockholm and in Copenhagen. The fate of... Jewish children has been different from all the children of the world throughout the generations. No more. We will defend our children. If the hand of any two-footed animal is raised against them, that hand will be cut off, and our children will grow up in joy in the homes of their parents.

Kapeliouk neither recanted nor apologized for his deception.

edit on 24-11-2011 by JohhnyBGood because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by shadowstorm
The reverse is also true.. anti-semetics often try to disguise their unreasoning hatred by claiming they are merely anti-zionist.

You still know the facts. They are that most anti-Zionists ar NOT anti-Semitic. In fact many are Rabbis as my OP illustrates or are you forgetting that I have already dispelled your myths and lies?

People who attempt to portray anti-Zionists as anti-Semitic seek to stifle anti-Zionist sentiment by portraying its proponents as being racist. They also do so to justify and steer attention away from human rights abuses committed by Zionists by seeking to portray dissents against the human rights abusers as racist.

You lose.


ETA: As I already said, I suspect that most anti-Semitic groups are sponsored by Zionist groups or the Zionist intelligence services. I imagine there will be some posting on this thread if not now then shortly.

reply to post by JohhnyBGood

However, further investigation by CAMERA reveals that the actual speech upon which Kapeliouk based his quote, as well as news reports at the time demonstrate that the journalist distorted the quote, giving it a completely different tone and meaning.

LMAO. you do realize that's exactly where that "wipe Israel off the map" remark came from right? Of course you do. Wow.

but anyways, there are plenty of quotes if you want to play that game, but I think you might want to look at the scoreboard and take a breather.

reply to post by shadowstorm

The reverse is also true.. anti-semetics often try to disguise their unreasoning hatred by claiming they are merely anti-zionist.

Yes but as stated at the beginning of that thread, you can clearly see the true intent in the tone of their posts. By all means, call out the antisemites. Just stop using that term as a catch all to silence any discussion of Israel or Israeli polices that you might not want to hear. Now that I type that, I want to make clear, I'm not accusing you of doing that at all.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters

So, I can safely assume you are anti-nazi right? therefore you are anti-german and wish all those descendant from German blood to be exterminated from this earth.

Lol.

What is this nonsense?

All Germans are Nazis now?

reply to post by Rockdisjoint

Yes. Anti-Zionism is the new Anti-Semitism.

Yes, according to your warped logic that being against Zionism, a political ideology, makes me an antisemite, if you are against the Nazis (a political ideology), you are anti-german.

what, you don't like your logic being used against you? Maybe you should re-examine your logic looking for the fallacy.

Is a person anti-Semitic if they complain about christian Zionist? Or is it ok to complain about them just not the Jews? Complaining about political ideology is not anti-Semitic.

reply to post by buster2010

Is a person anti-Semitic if they complain about christian Zionist?

Apparently yes, to a chunk of the population here at least.

It's funny, the game was originally "there's no such thing as zionism and you are an antisemite if you say there is"

Now the game is about smudging and blurring the lines to zionism, jews, Israel, Judaism, Jewishness, are all one in the same. Which is of course absurd.

Originally posted by Vardoger

Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
reply to post by Pimander

 

Are Anti Zionism and Anti-Semitism the Same?

Yes.

Anti-Zionism is the new Anti-Semitism.

Please tell us.....why? How have you come to this conclusion?

Years of research.

In fact sooooooo much research I should have phd in this stuff.

Zionists are the Jews who move to Israel.

Anti-Zionism is therefore directed against "only" the Jews who move to Israel.

If you've read this board long enough you will see that many of the people who are anti-semitic in general also happen to be..."coincidentally"...anti-zionist.

But its not really a coincidence. Before Israel existed they hated the Jews who wanted to move back to their homeland. Same thing.

reply to post by Skyfloating

Zionists are the Jews who move to Israel.

That is not modern zionism. Modern zionism is about the expansion and creation of the "greater state of ISrael" which just happens to include a lot of land that isn't theirs, yet.

Under THESE policies they have arguably committed crimes against civilians in Israel and in Gaza.

I'm quite alarmed to see a mod actually attempting to label those against the policies of Israel as antisemites. This displeases me greatly.

Feel free to actually learn was Zionism is here:

Zionism

Zionism is opposed by a wide variety of organizations and individuals. Among those opposing Zionism are some secular Jews,[70] some branches of Judaism (Satmar Hasidim and Neturei Karta), the former Soviet Union,[71] some African-Americans,[72] many in the Muslim world, and Palestinians. Reasons for opposing Zionism are varied, and include the perceptions of unfair land confiscation, expulsions of Palestinians, violence against Palestinians, and alleged racism. Arab states in particular strongly oppose Zionism, which they believe is responsible for the 1948 Palestinian exodus.

Oh look at that some secular JEWS are antisemites too.

Zionism has been characterized as colonialism, and Zionism has been criticized for promoting unfair confiscation of land, involving expulsion of indigenous peoples, and causing violence towards Palestinians. The characterization of Zionism as colonialism has been described by, among others, Nur Masalha, Gershon Shafir, Michael Prior, Ilan Pappe, and Baruch Kimmerling.[74]

Ahh now that's the zionism I believe most of us were talking about.

Some critics of Zionism describe it as racist or discriminatory.[84] Some criticisms of Zionism specifically identify Judaism's notion of "chosen people" as the source of racism in Zionism.[85] In December 1973, the UN passed a series of resolutions condemning South Africa and included a reference to an "unholy alliance between Portuguese colonialism, Apartheid and Zionism."[86] At the time there was little cooperation between Israel and South Africa.[87] Parallels have also been drawn between aspects of South Africa's apartheid regime and certain Israeli policies toward the Palestinians, which are seen as manifestations of racism in Zionist thinking.[88][89][90]

Ahh that antisemitic UN at it again.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by JohhnyBGood

 

However, further investigation by CAMERA reveals that the actual speech upon which Kapeliouk based his quote, as well as news reports at the time demonstrate that the journalist distorted the quote, giving it a completely different tone and meaning.

LMAO. you do realize that's exactly where that "wipe Israel off the map" remark came from right? Of course you do. Wow.

but anyways, there are plenty of quotes if you want to play that game, but I think you might want to look at the scoreboard and take a breather.

You mean you have just been caught using fake quotes, and using some pathetic trick, are trying to accuse me of being equally bad - I know exactly what A'jad said and who he was quoting - I am saying that is was politically acceptable code for what 12'vers really believe.

reply to post by Rockdisjoint


Maybe you should have. If you have researched it for so long you must have a pretty good case connecting people who are against the policies of Israel to anti-Semitics. Instead of just saying "yes it is...believe me I know" enlighten us with your years of research....tell me why you think I am anti-Semitic for being sickened by Israel's disregard of international law, human rights violations and blatant double standards. In your mind how does that make ME hate the Jewish people and Judaism, please let me know.....for I don't know my own self apparently, you're research should prove this.

Yes there are those who hide behind anti-Zionism as an anti-Semitic. Just like the UN and NATO hide behind humanitarian aid to justify bombing innocent civilians. That does not mean that I myself, who would say I'm against the modern ideology of Zionism hate Jewish people and to insinuate that I am is completely ignorant, selfish and down right dumb. Lump us all in with the anti-Semitics if you must. It just furthers our collective point of the hypocrisy of the Israeli Government, and international sanctimony.

Bla bla bla, 1000th post of the naturei karta rabbies that are friends with Ahmadinejad and the palestinians.

Face it, most jews are zionist (unfortunately) and most anti-zionists are anti-semitic (unfortunately). That's the way it is, stop the bull#.

There are some anti-zionist jews and some anti-terrorism palestinians, but those are some truly exceptional beings, not the norm.

Just as religion has sometimes produced an increase in tolerance, think of Mother Theresa of Calcutta, a few other saints, the dalai lama preaching non-violence towards China, and probably a few jews and muslims that I don't know about, these are exceptions, not the norm.

Okay fine. The problem lies in the fact that the people who are solely against policy will then instead of saying anti Zionism will simply say "I'm anti-Israel Policies". Followed by those who will say "being anti-Israel Polices is another cover for the anti-Semitics."

Again ignoring the true issues of the policies and reverting to the "you hate Jews" trump card.