Obamanomics Doomed to FAILURE! Socialism Simply Does Not WORK

Originally posted by SpaceJockey1
The main point of the post and what it contains is that though this is a very simple example; trying to 'equalize' everyone, at the expense of the achievers, then you get exactly what happened in that classroom.

Prime example I see in our education system, where the above has being slowly implemented over the last 20 or so years. In sports you see/hear it as well: EVERYONE'S A WINNER...there are no LOSERS! I mean if you are good at a sport, finish in first place yet are given no more accolade than the 20 people that finished behind you, why bother even trying to win?

By teaching children at an early age that we are all 'equal', you're creating your WANT WANT NEED NEED mindset. Hello OWS!

The fact that you think OWS has anything to do with socialism and Obama is a socialist just makes you look misinformed and ignorant for making statements about things you don't know anything about

OWS is about corporate/government corruption and the problem with the richest 1% holding 50% of the wealth and rigging the game to stay in power. And they shouldn't even have "power" politically, militarily and otherwise, yet they do because of rampant corruption.

So yes, socialism is a bad idea and this professor (if the story's true) proved a good point - but really, try to focus on Kiwi problems if these others are too complicated for you

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by Mister_Bit

 

No , then I move on . The Skills I have Mastered in this Life will be in Demand somewhere else............This is Life , Except it ...

* accept it

reply to post by SpaceJockey1


Speaking as a democratic socialist from the UK, I'd like to disagree with your definition of socialism.

There's a political spectrum that might run something like this, from left to right:

Communism, socialism, democratic socialism, social democracy, welfare capitalism, unfettered capitalism/corporatism. When you talk about socialism you seem to be talking about enforced equality under an authoritarian communist/socialist regime.

The GOP at the moment is in thrall to an irresponsible ideology that refuses to acknowledge that in any healthy society, people have to pay their fair share. This is a fairly recent, non-conservative, non-traditional Republicanism. Reagan for example was very clear that the very rich and the corporations needed to be pursued to pay their fair share, and not allowed to use tax avoidance measures which meant that the super-rich and corporations were paying less tax on their profits than a postman earning $10k a year was paying on the income from his labour - welfare capitalism. This isn't even socialism. The super rich and the corporations should be allowed to get richer if they want to - they can only do so where they benefit from living in a civil society with a well-educated population - good schools - a healthy population - free or affordable health care for everyone - a safe population - well-funded police departments - and good infrastructure - utilities, transport, roads etc. Otherwise you're going to see a society that descends into chaos, greater and greater inequality, crumbling civic buildings and roads, an underclass trapped in poverty, 50% of the population's wealth owned by 1% of the population.

Democratic socialism does not mean that people are not allowed to get right or own capital or that everyone earns the same.

Socialism works for party members.

If you are elite you get special perks and don't have to follow the rules everyone else does.

If you are a general party member you have to work for the party by observing and reporting on non party people.

If you are a non party member you might get little extras for ratting out the opposition.

But if you are a member of the opposition forget it you get nothing.
The party may claim everyone is equal but that is just propaganda for the masses.

Socialism is based on backstabbing to get ahead.
The longer your knife the more you get ahead.

If you are in the opposition you are not allowed to have knives.
And you are always the bad guy.

Communism works pretty much the same way.

reply to post by SpaceJockey1


I might agree that welfare for the rich doesn't work. Is the professor trying to make a point about the wealthy getting subsidies? Or is he just screaming socialism like a right wing idiot.

reply to post by jcord


Do your research, you will see that there are reasons why things fail, not all systems are doomed to fail, they are when they do not fit the agenda of a certain few however, that is what needs to change. We need to have a system that is workable without all the scum that is involved now i.e rothchilds and their ilk.

By and for the people. simple answer is usually the right one i.m.o, those that complicate things do it for a reason bull **** baffles brains.

divide and conquer, the list is endless.

After a long time lurking (6 years almost), this is the thread that has made me snap and finally post.

All I see is ignorance from the side of the "conservative white-knights" bashing Obama for socialist tendencies. While I agree he has some of these tendencies, he hasn't really acted on them in office. While not what I would consider an ideal president, he is far from this socialist pahriah that people make him out to be. Like others have pointed out, he is more of a corporatist.

Now, with that said, I would like to turn this professor's lesson around.


What if, instead of normalizing grades, he gives the top ten percent of the class a "grade credit" of 10 points to their final grade taken from 2 points from the bottom 90 percent. The idea behind this is to give the top percentage free time in order to help tutor and guide the less optimal students.

However, that top ten percent then decides to use that free time to go to the movies. Or maybe the bars. Maybe a few do help.

My point being that the same arguement of morality and greed taking over (the one that many conservative white knights like to champion as to why socialism fails) is the SAME reason why tax cuts to the upper percent of Americans DO NOT WORK.

Both are failed systems when taken a to their literal interpretations. A mix of both is kinda required.

reply to post by SpaceJockey1

Of course OWS is now being used to DIVIDE to lower & middle classes, where the focus should have been 100% on corporate greed and Govt corruption.

Any movement will be co-opted in an attempt to divide and conquer, and going from your complete lack of knowledge about OWS, it's obviously working on you 100%

OWS is focused on corporate greed and Govt corruption, but the corporate owned media won't tell you that, so you come here misinformed, and spout that stuff as fact, and your followers will believe it as fact because THAT'S HOW PROPAGANDA WORKS.

Beyond that, nothing Obama has done in office with the exception of the bank bailouts, was socialist. The only "socialist" policies he has are giving out socialist bailouts to failing banks to cover their bad investments at YOUR expense.

The united states is a Fascist entity by definition.

Anyways, you make some great points and are half way there, I just think you've been misinformed as to what OWS was all about. Don't fell bad, you are not alone here or in the US.

reply to post by Marthiarn

What if, instead of normalizing grades, he gives the top ten percent of the class a "grade credit" of 10 points to their final grade taken from 2 points from the bottom 90 percent. The idea behind this is to give the top percentage free time in order to help tutor and guide the less optimal students.

Better yet.

The professor allows the top 10% to gamble on the marks they think they will make. When that gamble fails, and they are under the scores they assumed to make, the professor takes points away from the bottom 90% and gives it to the top 10% to cover their bad gamble.

That's essentially what happened with the bank bailouts, socialism and fascism coming together in a fancy new package, draped in the stars and stripes.

reply to post by apacheman

What most of the poor lack is access to capital, not ambition, drive, inventiveness or the willingness to work hard. The lack of those traits is most often found in those who let their money work for them in the gambling casinos of the stock markets, instead of actually doing anything productive for society.

Best post on the thread.

There's a few good things about socialism like free health care, I couldn't imagine not having health care.

But somehow I think socialism equals a society that depends more on the state.

I'm posting from Spain where socialism has just been buried and the conservatives have come out the wood work.

What is required for the next 10 years is Steponomics!!!

Nationalise the big banks for 10 years, cancel most of the debt.

Put the bankers on trial for all the money they stole from people and Government coffers and take it back and put the bankers in jail. Pass some laws and regulations. Dont allow banks to loan more that they have in reserve deposits!!

Outlaw lobbyism!!

Then there maybe hope for a better and fairer deal for folk!!

Socialism doesn't work? Tell that to China, they seem to make it work just fine as the U.S. is 1 trillion in debt to them and the U.S. is a capitalist run country. Theyre raking the the cash using MMO computer games to farm and sell digtal game loot and video game monies to trade for real cash and the western world is dumb enough to fall for it. Socialism seems to be working out for them just fine.

A Nation is its people, there cannot be a nation of individuals, that would be just a country filled with people.

So it surprises me that anyone who claims to love their nation would not want to support it, that is, to look after and nurture the populace as a whole, for the greater good of that nation.

Anyone who thinks "me me me" cannot claim to love their nation in my eyes because you put yourself above your nation, you will do what you feel you need to do to succeed and if the nation fails you'll just move abroad.

I can only comment on what I see and as I see it.

Of course there will be people at the bottom who refuse to work, likewise there will be people at the top who refuse to pay taxes, these are the abusers of the system, they should not be regarded as the system but outside it.
We are all part of the society, if you break societies rules you should no longer get the benefits of it.

Don't want to pax tax into the system that you're benefiting from... get out!! We don't want you.
Don't want to work and do your part.. fine, but don't expect free healthcare, benefit handouts, waste removal etc etc and everything else that comes from that society.

reply to post by Mister_Bit


What a wonderful post!

Thank you.

I'm sick and tired of people who (like you say) go "me me me screw the nation". They are a product of deliberate brainwashing done by the well heeled elite. United we stand... You know the rest! So TPTB want to break the unity.

Originally posted by Marthiarn
After a long time lurking (6 years almost), this is the thread that has made me snap and finally post.

All I see is ignorance from the side of the "conservative white-knights" bashing Obama for socialist tendencies. While I agree he has some of these tendencies, he hasn't really acted on them in office. While not what I would consider an ideal president, he is far from this socialist pahriah that people make him out to be. Like others have pointed out, he is more of a corporatist.

Now, with that said, I would like to turn this professor's lesson around.


What if, instead of normalizing grades, he gives the top ten percent of the class a "grade credit" of 10 points to their final grade taken from 2 points from the bottom 90 percent. The idea behind this is to give the top percentage free time in order to help tutor and guide the less optimal students.

However, that top ten percent then decides to use that free time to go to the movies. Or maybe the bars. Maybe a few do help.

My point being that the same arguement of morality and greed taking over (the one that many conservative white knights like to champion as to why socialism fails) is the SAME reason why tax cuts to the upper percent of Americans DO NOT WORK.

Both are failed systems when taken a to their literal interpretations. A mix of both is kinda required.

edit on 24-11-2011 by Marthiarn because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-11-2011 by Marthiarn because: (no reason given)

Thanks for adding some rational and measured thoughts to the discussion - hope you decide to contribute more often!

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Socialism doesn't work? Tell that to China, they seem to make it work just fine as the U.S. is 1 trillion in debt to them and the U.S. is a capitalist run country. Theyre raking the the cash using MMO computer games to farm and sell digtal game loot and video game monies to trade for real cash and the western world is dumb enough to fall for it. Socialism seems to be working out for them just fine.

China is not socialist, they are authoritarian captialists
naturalorder.ufm.edu...
www.homepagedaily.com...
www.foreignaffairs.com...

Singapore is also another example of this. China is "socialist" in certian social aspects but their economy is not.

Originally posted by ANOK


People have to realise they don't need the private owner to give them a 'job'.

The machinery is there to be used, we are the labour. The lack of 'jobs' is simply part of the artificial scarcity of resources required for capitalism to maintain profits. We suffer whenever the capitalists have to reduce production in order to maintain a profit.

edit on 11/23/2011 by ANOK because: typo

So I guess that the Machinery just magically appears?
Where does the money come from to first create the machines, then to host and power the machines and so on?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Funny, as every year they become more and more capitalist in nature and action.

Originally posted by Anusuia
The new health care system that your current administration introduced is not a good socialist model if it makes everyone by health insurance . That is not socialist in my books .

Please explain .

Actually "ObamaCare" was not introduced by Obama. Before Obama there was this governor, a Republican named Mitt Romney who was a proponent of said health care policies.

Originally posted by ILikeStars

Originally posted by Anusuia
The new health care system that your current administration introduced is not a good socialist model if it makes everyone by health insurance . That is not socialist in my books .

Please explain .

Actually "ObamaCare" was not introduced by Obama. Before Obama there was this governor, a Republican named Mitt Romney who was a proponent of said health care policies.

I believe "HillaryCare" was before "RomneyCare".