The light of the Gentiles mentioned in Isaiah 42

1 "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles"
-Who is this "servant" who will bring forth judgement to the gentiles.
Im guessing Christians dont interpret this "servant" to be Jesus, since Jesus is a "son" or "God in the flesh".
Pay special attention to the word "servant".... this servant is key to the fulfillment of the following :


4He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
Who was this servant who would not fail in his mission, of setting judgement in the earth? And what was "his law" that was awaited by the isles?


6I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
-Again, this concerns the gentiles. Jesus declared in his own words that he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.


11Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains.
-This is good news for the villages that "Kedar inhabits". Kedar, as you know is a son of Ishmael. Furthermore, I interpret "wilderness" to mean the wilderness that Ishmael entered with his mother. So it appears that this part is relevant to the Ishmaelites....



16And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them..
-The blind are those who were living in the spiritual darkness of paganism and idolatory. Who were those people who came out of the darkness, and entered a new life of worshipping the God who chose Abraham.

To summarize, this particular chapter seems to be addressing the gentiles, i.e- Non-Israelites. It is prophesied that they will be removed from darkness and brought into the light of the way of God. These gentiles are given a "light", through a servant of God.

IMHO, this servant was none other than Mohammad.
Reading the whole thing in context....I cant think of anybody else who was declared as a servant, who God said He upholds and declares as His "elect".... who also had an impact on the people of Kedar and the "wilderness".
Those who came out of the darkness were those who Mohammad brought out of idolatory and paganism. So darkness was indeed made light before them, and they were led in new paths that they had not known, by worshipping the God of Abraham.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


That is the Father talking about the Son. His coming again is not just to gather the elect, it's also to judge the nations.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

That is the Father talking about the Son. His coming again is not just to gather the elect, it's also to judge the nations.

"son" or servant? That verse begins with "Behold my servant, whom I uphold"....
Does it mean that Jesus is another "servant" of God?
Because Jesus cant be both a "servant" of God and be part of the trinity, in other words God.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Have you never heard of the "suffering servant"?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


And just what does "suffering servant" prove anway?
That Jesus was indeed another "servant" of God?
Do you really think servant = son, or servant = God?

And if Jesus is indeed the suffering servant, how can the servant be part of the trinity, and therefore God?

New International Version (©1984)
"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

He was sent to bring salvation and so He was both a son and a servant. God so loved the world he sent His Son to the cross for us.

reply to post by 547000

He was both a son and a servant.

...but is he also God? Or a part of the trinity, therefore God?
You guys are making this up as you go along, aren't you?

Yes, there are verses where he is referred to as a "son", but Im scrutinizing the so called the messianic verses of Isaiah. If Jesus was a son, it should have just read ... "Behold my son, whom I uphold".

Instead it says "servant", and you are just reading things into it and modifying christian doctrine to arrive at the conclusion that he is both "a son and a servant".... just to suit what you want Isaiah 42 to be.

My guess is that its someone else.... who influenced the people of Kedar and "wilderness",(most probably a reference to the same wilderness that Ishmael dwelt in.) Because there is no good reason to just include them in the text. We know that at no point in Jesus' life did he do something for these people.

Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. It also says the the Word was God. Either you accept it or you don't. Nothing else to say. You're disregarding it all because you think God wouldn't glorify Himself from humble origins.

reply to post by 547000

Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. It also says the the Word was God. Either you accept it or you don't. Nothing else to say. You're disregarding it all because you think God wouldn't glorify Himself from humble origins.

Lets save that for another thread, and focus on the words of Isaiah 42.
God is assigning a servant with a particular mission to a particular people....and it doesn't appear to be who you call "son of God" or a part of the trinity. Either you accept it or dont.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

And just what does "suffering servant" prove anway?
That Jesus was indeed another "servant" of God?
Do you really think servant = son, or servant = God?

And if Jesus is indeed the suffering servant, how can the servant be part of the trinity, and therefore God?

The point is it goes to show He's referred to as a "servant", amongst dozens of other titles throughout scripture. Servant here in Isaiah is merely a title. Christ came to do the Father's will and not His own, the 2nd coming He will come in glory, not humility.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

...but is he also God? Or a part of the trinity, therefore God?
You guys are making this up as you go along, aren't you?

God the Son sent to do the will of God the Father, but the power and anointing of God the Holy Spirit.

Is this really the first time you've heard this?

Isaiah 9:6:

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

bible.cc...

biblebrowser.com...

All you have is OT prophecy that the Messiah would bring salvation to the gentiles. We know from the NT that Christ did this, He opened up salvation to the world.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

The point is it goes to show He's referred to as a "servant", amongst dozens of other titles throughout scripture. Servant here in Isaiah is merely a title. Christ came to do the Father's will and not His own, the 2nd coming He will come in glory, not humility.

Of course, "servant" becomes merely a title, when you have already concluded that Isaiah 42 is referring to Jesus. In reality, a servant is one who does the task assigned by his master. So Isaiah 42 refers to a person who is indeed a "servant" of God, who will carry out the will of his master.

If it was Jesus being referred to, you would have read "Behold my son".

God the Son sent to do the will of God the Father, but the power and anointing of God the Holy Spirit.
Is this really the first time you've heard this?

No. But its the first time Im hearing from christians that "servant" in Isaiah 42 was merely a title.

All you have is OT prophecy that the Messiah would bring salvation to the gentiles. We know from the NT that Christ did this, He opened up salvation to the world.

You fail to address the part about the people of Kedar and the wilderness. It is very much there in Isaiah 42.
Now, at what point in the bible did Jesus ever concern himself with them. Or will you tell me that he will do so once he gets back?

reply to post by 547000

Isaiah 9:6:
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Wait. Who is the one who will be called "everlasting Father"? Jesus?
But I thought Jesus was the "son" part of the trinity.
If Jesus is called "everlasting Father", then it means the trinity is Father - Father - Holy Spirit
Yet another blow to the false doctrine of "trinity".

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


1 "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles"
Which is exactly what Mohammad did. He brought judgement by changing the way of life for the gentiles in Arabia. If not for Mohammad,that region would have probably still been in idolatory.... and today, its people would have naturally been condemned as idolaters and pagans. But through Islam they have turned into strict monotheists who recognize Jesus as the messiah.


4He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
Mohammad brought in Abrahamic monotheism in a land where paganism and idolatory was the way of life.
God, through Mohammad erased the paganism and idolatory prevalent in Arabia...


11Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains.
If nothing else convinces you, then please tell me.... why Kedar? Why the wilderness? The places most associated with Ishmael, that other forgotten son of Abraham. Clearly this refers to a particular group of people.

Does this not have prophetic significance?...especially in a chapter that talks about gentiles being given a "light" and having darkness turned into light.

If it was someone other then the Ishmaelite prophet, why of all names, was Kedar mentioned???

and this is the best part...following "And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them."

17They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods.

In the very next verse, we read about the graven images that people will be greatly ashamed of.
The same graven images that Mohammad destroyed.

Were not the people who Mohammad conquered ashamed of their "graven images" or idols, before they submitted to the One God?

Bear in mind, that we are dealing with a verse referring to Kedar. If it is not Mohammad, himself a Kedarite who stood apart from the idolatory, who else can it be? Which other biblical character utterly vanquished idolatory among the people of Kedar and the "wilderness"?

You are in error.

Jesus, the Word of God is doing the talking in Isaiah and he is definately not talking about Mohammed. Now I will show the testimony that Jesus gave regarding the true servant, John the Baptist, who is the forerunner of the anointed (Messiah).

1. Jesus said that John is more than just a prophet.
2. Jesus testified that John is a light.

" After John's messengers left, Jesus began to speak to the crowd about John: "What did you go out into the desert to see? A reed swayed by the wind? If not, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear expensive clothes and indulge in luxury are in palaces. But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. This is the one about whom it is written: " 'I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.' I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he." (All the people, even the tax collectors, when they heard Jesus' words, acknowledged that God's way was right, because they had been baptized by John. But the Pharisees and experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)" Luke 7:24-30

Straight from the Lord's own mouth, Jesus tells us that John is more than a prophet and of those born of a woman there is noone greater (including Mohammed). Jesus is himself the spirit of prophecy, so if someone was going to eventually come along and be greater than John - he would have told us, but he didn't. A person must have John's baptism to understand and acknowledge God's way is right. We go down in the water, then God draws us.

"If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid. There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is valid. "You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light. "I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me." John 5:31-36

Now, I know this is a hard teaching for my fellow christians because everyone teaches and preaches that the servant songs are about the Messiah. But the word Messiah is never used in the servant songs. Before you just dismiss this, I want you to please take into consideration, that if the baptism of the Holy Spirit Jesus gives is a true spiritual phenomena, then there must be a spiritual role for the forerunner. Everything Jesus did in the physical was done so we can enjoy and understand the spiritual.

Before Jesus can come to us, to cleanse us, the forerunner must come and announce his arrival. Some of you deep down know I am speaking to you spiritually. What identifies the servant who comes to us in a spiritual form is that he is headless:

He will not shout or cry out (because he can't)
or raise his voice (because he can't)
he has no beauty or majesty to atrract us to him (absolutely nothing there)
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him (absolutely nothing therre)

Here is a rare case, where I will step outside of the canon for you to consider and ponder something. I believe the Gospel of Thomas are true words Jesus spoke. Something Jesus states about John in the text proves to me beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they are Jesus' words and it is found in saying 46:

"From Adam to John the Baptist, among those born of women, no one is so much greater than John the Baptist that his eyes should not be averted. But I have said that whoever among you becomes a child will recognize the (Father's) kingdom and will become greater than John."

We find a familiar reoccurence in the canon about him being the greatest but it's the part about averting ones eyes, that aligns like hand and glove with the servant found in Isaiah:

He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. Isa 53:3

I had a vision almost 30 years ago. Not that you have to believe it but I'm going to offer it up for you to ponder. Having dreams and visions are quite normal for christians. I don't have many but when I do, they have a lasting impact with me.

I was lying in bed, on the edge of sleep, just spooning away with my husband. There was a nightlight on and the room was dimly lit. I was behind my husband all snuggled up with my arm draped over him when suddenly someone very gently picked my hand up by the wrist and lifted my arm up so that it was just there suspended. I wasn't asleep and it took a second to register, that if my husband is in bed next to me and my house is locked up - cont.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct


Cont...

who has a hold of my hand? I opened my eyes and slowly turned my head to look (let lightning strike me right now if I am lying) and there stood a man, dressed in blue, holding my hand so that my arm was suspended but he had no head...

I've never been more scared in my life. I thought I was seeing things, so I quickly turned my head and looked at my husband who was still lying there and only wanted the man to be gone when I looked back at him but he was still there holding my arm.

Totally frightened, I screamed and with every bit of strength I could muster, I yanked my arm away and he was gone.

Isaiah 53:1 says, "Who has believed OUR message and to whom has the arm of LORD been revealed?"

I believe. I rejected Jesus' servant, who announces his coming spirit. Had I not have, I could have experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit at a much younger age, instead of waiting until I was almost 40. But I didn't understand and it has taken many years to piece all of this together.

The angel Gabriel said that John would be filled with the Holy Spirit from birth (Jesus inside him). That he would bring back many to the Lord their God - and that he will go before the Lord in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of children to their father's and the hearts of father's to their children. Disobediance to the wisdom of righteousness to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Further it is recorded in Luke, that when John was named and his father's tongue loosed, the people were amazed at all the miracles associated with John's birth (barren woman having child, father seeing angel, tongue bound, tongue loosed). All throughout the country they were filled with awe and discussing all these events.... and they wondered:

"What is this child going to be? For the Lords HAND was with him." Luke 1:66