Elderly woman, priest pepper-sprayed during Occupy protest

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I think our elders are capable of making their own decisions on where to be. Further, you miss the point that this behavior from the police is uncalled for - it's not the protestors picking the fights, after all (in fact, #OSeattle has been pretty low-key this whole time.)

From the video posted above...the protestors are picking a fight.

They were asked to get on the sidewalk and off the roads...and they refused.

They shouldn't act surprised when they get the reaction they are TRYING to provoke.

reply to post by nathanscottecho


A user posted one here in this thread
www.abovetopsecret.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">ATS LINK

As well as his own thread specifically about the video:

ATS Link

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Stop using the most vulnerable in a twisted attempt to get headcounts and look bigger than you rightly are. Gently suggest the weaker members DEPART. Don't cynically put them into positions where getting hurt is almost a given and gee whiz

you aren't insinuating that the police forces decision to pepper spray peaceful protesters is a ploy deliberately by OWS are you? I mean, you've clearly expressed your distaste for OWS in other threads, but you can't honestly believe this was staged.

And i refuse to believe you honestly think Leaving is the smart choice. They are exercising their rights, the police are the ones in the wrong, and that's exactly the point, they want them to give up.

support their cause or not, it matters little, but the second you stop supporting their right to protest, you are no better than a communist you are so scared of.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters

support their cause or not, it matters little, but the second you stop supporting their right to protest, you are no better than a communist you are so scared of.

Where do you get the idea that communism doesn't allow protesting???

I'm not following that logic.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I think our elders are capable of making their own decisions on where to be. Further, you miss the point that this behavior from the police is uncalled for - it's not the protestors picking the fights, after all (in fact, #OSeattle has been pretty low-key this whole time.)

I'll respectfully disagree with you on the point of who is starting the fights. In some cases, you're right. However, after watching over a dozen of the camp raids live, start to finish, I have come to the conclusion that the police are more guilty of simply being there as a target than aggressive actions to start anything in motion for violence.

There are definitely exceptions to that...and the recent Berkeley video as well as the START of the evening Scott Olsen was shot are good examples. However, even that night in Oakland isn't that clear cut as the crowd menaced the police lines 6 different times through the course of events. They'd be run off by tear gas then slowly...deliberately..creep one foot at a time back up until they were again within a foot of the barricades and ignoring orders to move back. Pop...more tear gas, they'd fall back and it all started again. 6 times that cycle ran before I called it a night and went to bed just before dawn.

My point on my prior post is a VERY simple one. When you enter what is LIKELY to be a war zone or riot that evening, don't ask for or expect one tiny drop of sympathy when you get a nightstick upside the head or choke on the gas you KNEW was very likely to come. It's called foreseeable outcomes in legalese and it's the difference between feeling bad for the people hurt in the beginning and nearly rooting for the Police at this point in time.

body armor: check
gas mask: check
2 cans bear mace: check
31" extendable baton: check
makeshift shield: check

EVERYBODY! now lets go occupy for real, please?

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


The right to bear arms was drafted for a reason. But Americans are too cowardly to fire when necessary. The US military has done nothing to protect the constitution. Ultimately the republic needs the people to do their job. Oh well...lets hold hands.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by phishyblankwaters

 

Pretty crazy stuff. I started a thread on the video that shows this happening earlier today.

My thread is here:

Seattle Police Pepper Spray Peaceful Protesters [Video]

I see you had trouble uploading the pics from that source too. ATS wouldn't accept it

Here is the video.

Beware of foul language. Lot's of swear words.

edit on 16-11-2011 by Corruption Exposed because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-11-2011 by Corruption Exposed because: (no reason given)

Your video actually captures something I have been waiting to see happen. I have said it a few times now as protesters face off with police that sooner or later one of these cops will get yanked into a crowd. Well this time it happened, but it was the cop who yanked a protester into the crowd of cops. Check it out at the 1:15 mark.

So very nice job Officers, you just showed first hand what I have been waiting to see happen. As you keep showing more and more protesters just how it is done, they will eventually begin using your own tactics on you. Then what will you do? Like it or not, the population outnumbers police, mayors, congressman, presidents, bankers.

I can tell you now... protesters are learning something from every protest. I don't need a news article or a youtube video to prove it, all you need is your own two eyes. Go back and look at the protesters from Seattle's G20 in 1999. Now go look at the protesters in Pittsburgh at the G20 in 2009. Now go look at the G20 protesters in Toronto in 2010. Now go and check out all the recent protest from OWS. Do you see it? Do you see the slow evolution of defensive protesters? Do you see the progression? From unarmed people to gas mask wearing, ear plug having protesters? What are you gonna do when protesters just assume violence will occur and actually prepare for the worst by making shields? Do you think your protective headgear will help you when 500 protesters open fire with paintball guns to match your rubber bullets? Protesters are learning.. the cops are teaching. Sooner or later this is all going to have to come to a head.

Originally posted by gunshooter
body armor: check
gas mask: check
2 cans bear mace: check
31" extendable baton: check
makeshift shield: check

EVERYBODY! now lets go occupy for real, please?

The problem however is that Occupy has the wrong target. People are occupying parks in major cities while protesting about the Federal Government. So the only people they are a nuisance to is their own local Government and regular people who's support they want. Your not going to get the attention of Congress, the Senate or anyone else whos attention you need to get. This is why I came up with this idea Occupy Capital Hill

I can tell you now... protesters are learning something from every protest. I don't need a news article or a youtube video to prove it, all you need is your own two eyes. Go back and look at the protesters from Seattle's G20 in 1999. Now go look at the protesters in Pittsburgh at the G20 in 2009. Now go look at the G20 protesters in Toronto in 2010. Now go and check out all the recent protest from OWS. Do you see it? Do you see the slow evolution of defensive protesters? Do you see the progression? From unarmed people to gas mask wearing, ear plug having protesters? What are you gonna do when protesters just assume violence will occur and actually prepare for the worst by making shields? Do you think your protective headgear will help you when 500 protesters open fire with paintball guns to match your rubber bullets? Protesters are learning.. the cops are teaching. Sooner or later this is all going to have to come to a head.

reply to post by MrWendal


So what exactly is the point or end game here? To continue to escalate and learn to defend against each new level on the way up? I must be reading you wrong here, because it sure sounds like you're quite content to just keep raising the ante in the ultimate tactics competition. You know? There is a fatal (literally) flaw to your thinking on that and assumptions that learning tactics will ultimately win the day.

OWS can never, ever in any way, shape or form BEGIN to match the force and power of the combined efforts of the U.S. Government, state and local authorities. The cops we are seeing in the major anticipated conflicts are NEVER all that are out there, or even the majority of them. You're ONLY seeing the number they deem the minimum necessary to restore order and mitigate public relations damage from the action being taken at all.

Now, if you actually manage to get the upper hand on ONE cop, dozens will converge and likely beat into brain injury, every protester they have to get through to reach their fallen comrade. That's not hyperbole, it's among the tactics you haven't seen....yet. I hope OWS never does. IF OWS were to over-power the whole group of cops, THEN you will see how many are REALLY deployed, including those reserves sitting clear out of sight. There is, absolutely and totally, NO WAY TO WIN. Not in the ultimate confrontational way some might suggest.

To OWS leaders, facilitators or whatever the heck the leadership cadre want to call themselves to hide from liability, please don't push the camp followers into proving how right I absolutely *KNOW* I am about this. Don't get innocent kids killed for a damn political statement. It'll make OWS NO BETTER than the U.S. leaders getting people killed overseas. In fact, it'll be even worse. Much worse.

Originally posted by Carseller4
Nice that these old people are getting a chance to relive the 60's!

Looks like they are having a great time!

Carseller for a name kinda sums up what you are about . A crook and a person who fiddles figures .
The woman att 85 / 84 is a woman who lived through WW2 you idiot . She was not a 60s child .

Your disrepectfull stupidity does not surprise me from the idiot generation .

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I take it that you like the idea of a world that is more a concertration camp rather than a world were people live in peace and are free to pursue love life and happiness .

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Okay guys, support Occupy or don't support Occupy but the games are over and the playtime is behind us. Elderly people, Children, Pets and others who cannot or will not handle violence or conflict well HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS NEAR OCCUPY at this point.

Every camp is a potential combat zone with EACH OTHER if not the constant threat of police raids. The whole movement has taken a dark turn and heading into ugly places as a group and at full speed.

There is SO much negative about OWS today from polls to perverts but I'll just focus on the topic for the thread here by saying I simply have NO sympathy for the people in the cross fire any longer. A week or more ago? It was a mix... Some camps were peaceful and even positive in atmosphere and some were already war zones. Now EVERY ONE OF THEM can go from peaceful singing to violence, ambulances and CS gas in moments and with *NO* warning whatsoever.

Those who are there now bought their ticket to the party with their eyes wide open. They're in it for better or worse...and arrest is a near certainty. Injury is oossible if not likely in many locations and a snoot full of CS gas to clear the sinuses just goes with the territory.

OWS.... Show some CLASS and some good common sense. Be the bigger people here and have SOME compassion. Stop using the most vulnerable in a twisted attempt to get headcounts and look bigger than you rightly are. Gently suggest the weaker members DEPART. Don't cynically put them into positions where getting hurt is almost a given and gee whiz....is that Occupy people almost waiting with cameras to cover it?? The public has just about had all it can stand of Occupy. Grow up guys.

no offense, but this authoritarian "youre weak go home you dont belong here" crap is exactly what they are protesting against.

if you dont get it, then dont pretend to.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
So what exactly is the point or end game here? To continue to escalate and learn to defend against each new level on the way up? I must be reading you wrong here, because it sure sounds like you're quite content to just keep raising the ante in the ultimate tactics competition. You know? There is a fatal (literally) flaw to your thinking on that and assumptions that learning tactics will ultimately win the day.

OWS can never, ever in any way, shape or form BEGIN to match the force and power of the combined efforts of the U.S. Government, state and local authorities. The cops we are seeing in the major anticipated conflicts are NEVER all that are out there, or even the majority of them. You're ONLY seeing the number they deem the minimum necessary to restore order and mitigate public relations damage from the action being taken at all.

Now, if you actually manage to get the upper hand on ONE cop, dozens will converge and likely beat into brain injury, every protester they have to get through to reach their fallen comrade. That's not hyperbole, it's among the tactics you haven't seen....yet. I hope OWS never does. IF OWS were to over-power the whole group of cops, THEN you will see how many are REALLY deployed, including those reserves sitting clear out of sight. There is, absolutely and totally, NO WAY TO WIN. Not in the ultimate confrontational way some might suggest.

To OWS leaders, facilitators or whatever the heck the leadership cadre want to call themselves to hide from liability, please don't push the camp followers into proving how right I absolutely *KNOW* I am about this. Don't get innocent kids killed for a damn political statement. It'll make OWS NO BETTER than the U.S. leaders getting people killed overseas. In fact, it'll be even worse. Much worse.

I am not getting anyone killed and I am not saying, "go out and do this". What I am saying is, from a distance you can see a progression in defense with every new protest video that pops up. I am not suggesting, implying or advocating anything at all. I am simply making an observation.

Do you not see the progression I am talking about?

In another thread that showed a video of protesters who had their arms linked together. Police began jabbing them with their batons. As I watched that video, I knew what I would do in that situation and I even posted the same remark. If it were me, this is what would happen. Sooner or later, someone is gonna do it, and I was right. Someone did do it, only this time it was a cop. Seeing as how there has been a progression of defensive tactics from protesters, how long do you think it will be until one of these protesters actually does it?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Why are you sitting there watching dozens of camp raids during this time . Whats wrong in your head . You are not a well adjusted person if you are spending your time painstakingly watching camp raids .

Join a hobby or a sailing club or a football club , just get out of your dungen and live a life in nature , in the air , with real people .
Oh boy !! this stuff is sick ..im out already . You guys are sick .A degenerate bunch of sickness .
To hell with it all . Create the hell you live in for all is the motto isn't it ..you live in hell , so you wish everyone to be in your hell .

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


But all camps have remained peaceful? The turn you speak of is the coordinated evictions by the police. I would say it's good they get more media coverage, but we don't have real media anymore. It's kinda sad, the stress of being aware of media lies is probably taking years off of every ATSers life.

I wonder if I can get a lawsuit going. I have hypertension due to constantly being infuriated by fox news, hand list of lies to judge, receive bailout.

reply to post by MrWendal


I agree.
They supposedly have marches and stuff, but they really need to move in onto some different areas.

Interview with the woman for any interested.

What did I learn from this thread? Well, the OP was quite well played.
Then I learned that only able-bodied ruffians should protest because they are expecting a fight.
The only common thread that links the violence at all of the occupy camps is the police.
Yes, they are following orders. You need to look at those issuing the orders.
Are they the downtrodden masses who have found their livelihoods being dismantled piece by piece in the name of profit for the few, or are the people issuing the orders part of 'the few'?

So, elderly people, you have no right to protest for you will be assaulted by the police.
Young people, you have no right to protest for you will be assaulted by the police.
Pets (???), you have no right to be with your companions for they and you will be assaulted by the police.

Police? You can do exactly what you like without any fear of disciplinary action because "you were following orders." Good on you! Go to a library, and look up "I was only following orders." No? Why not?

But the protesters were 'told' to move back. To some arbitrary point beyond where they were stood. They were moved because it was easier to see who 'the ringleaders' were. They were moved because it made it easier to see who would resist (they were beaten and arrested for protecting their rights and the constitution).
They were moved because it gave the police an excuse to say they were "not following their orders."
They were moved because some rich person was afraid.
Wake up.

The only, ONLY common thread in the violence in the whole occupy movement has been the police.
Where there are police in riot gear there will be violence. They guarantee it.

Originally posted by Anusuia
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Why are you sitting there watching dozens of camp raids during this time . Whats wrong in your head . You are not a well adjusted person if you are spending your time painstakingly watching camp raids .

Join a hobby or a sailing club or a football club , just get out of your dungen and live a life in nature , in the air , with real people .
Oh boy !! this stuff is sick ..im out already . You guys are sick .A degenerate bunch of sickness .
To hell with it all . Create the hell you live in for all is the motto isn't it ..you live in hell , so you wish everyone to be in your hell .

Umm.. Huh? Okay, the first part of your reply made sense, so I'll just stick to that and leave the second half...somewhere.

I've been watching the OWS events for two reasons. One, I know people in at least 2 of the camps and I spent a week 24/7 in one of those. I say at least because I'm not sure about a couple of my cousins in Northern Cal. It wouldn't shock me to see one of their faces at Berkeley or Oakland one of these nights as a passing shot.

This is also history in the making, one day at a time. I was also watching near 24/7 during and just after the fall of the Berlin Wall, in the days leading up to the 1991 war, the 2003 invasion of Iraq and Egypt's recent revolution. It isn't obsession, it's a very rare opportunity few get once in a lifetime. We, as a society, have had a few of them depending on when we were each born for how many years of the changes since 1989 we've been around to watch.

In the case of OWS, I'm also building a video record of whats happening. My son was with me for part of my time in St Louis (It's always been ABSOLUTELY 100% non-confrontational in everything they do...and a model for others to follow for that) and will some day appreciate having a record of what his younger friends won't know as a first hand event at all.