Chemtrails are terraforming earth for the aliens!

Originally posted by Nobama
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

that's not an fallacy, it's fact..

what is??

more than half of your posts are directed towards chemtrails, why? why does it bother you so much that people believe in chemtrail theories?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and better yet, what makes you think a "chemmie" is or ever has listen to you?

Because htey keep replying, so I know they are reading my posts

however I presume you mean what makes me think I have ever managed to convince a chemmie they are wrong?

I have no such thought - I hope it is the case, and I know of some people who have said they have changed their minds, so clearly some debunking somewhere is working. I am happy to have potentially contrivbuted to that.

If it hasnt' actually been the case then so be it - I live in hope

because all I ever see is you bloating about chemtrails and people disregarding you as a disinfo.

[

And why does that bother you??

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

And why does that bother you??

It doesn't you're just alot of fun to troll

oh and chemtrails are real you cant prove otherwise, trololol

reply to post by Nobama


Just as well I'm not trying to prove otherwise then - phew!

BTW - that "you can't prove they aren't" thing - it's called Argument from Ignorance - it's really not very clever.

I think it is extremely poor form that a few Chemtrail believers are trying to bully certain members off this forum. If points are raised, people are entitled to answer them. If claims are made, they can try to disprove them if they disagree, or simply disagree as is their entitlement.

But attacking someone for simply giving the opposite view Is completely against the whole spirit of a discussion board. It also suggests an inability to answer the points raised and that the real truth is somehow uncomfortable, but maybe that is just my interpretation.

Whatever, all the "why do you post here" "you are a troll" replies are very distasteful examples of cyber bullying. I would never trust a word said by anyone who's case was so weak they had to resort to it. Can't people just address the topic?

Isn't this idea of geoengineering with chemtrails an issue brought up in the movie The Arrival? I'm just saying. It's not like it's a new theory or anything.

I'm still on the fence about chemtrails, but OP is far from de-bunking here.

Just because someone says "aluminum", it does not mean that they are referring to elemental aluminum as is found in the earth's crust. Do you know anything of chemistry? You do know that aluminum can be complexed with other elements into larger molecules that have detrimental effects on life? You know complexed aluminum is used as deodorant because it inhibits bacterial growth?

Seriously man. If you're going to put up a "de-bunk" thread at least provide some real information. Not 3rd grade geology crap mixed in with insults. I've just started here, but all I've seen in your posts is confrontational language and poor attempts at de-bunking without any real information. That's just lazy and makes you look bad.

As I said, I don't necessarily agree with the article you refer to in OP. However, I do agree that anyone who spends so much time on a conspiracy forum trying to de-bunk a particular topic is... mal-adjusted and/or has dubious motives. It's obvious that you aren't doing this out of the goodness of your heart for the good of mankind.

reply to post by ShockTruther


Right - so you ask me not to insult your intelligence, and then proceed to insult mine all over the place, including my motives, etc.

Nice one!

I started a thread explaining why I debunk - it's still there if you want to argue about my motives - www.abovetopsecret.com...

How about you explain what yours are for attacking me for debunking??

Now as for this:

Just because someone says "aluminum", it does not mean that they are referring to elemental aluminum as is found in the earth's crust. Do you know anything of chemistry? You do know that aluminum can be complexed with other elements into larger molecules that have detrimental effects on life? You know complexed aluminum is used as deodorant because it inhibits bacterial growth?

I never mentioned "elemental aluminium".

If you knew much about chemistry yourself you would know that there IS NO ELEMENTAL ALUMINIUM IN THE EARTH'S CRUST as you seem to claim I said there is!! nice one again!!

Aluminium is so reactive that any elemental aluminium almost instantly oxidises in the presence of oxygen, and the aluminium in the crust is all tied up in various compounds - Aluminium oxide (Al2O3) is one, and feldspars are a family of minerals that comprise about 60% of the crust and contain aluminium.

The aluminium that is detrimental to plant life is actually Al3+ - ionic aluminium, which occurs perfectly naturally in acidic soils - 30-40% of arable soil is acidic enough to be affected by aluminium - see here.

And yes I know there is aluminium in many deodorants - would you care to tell us why you think that is relevant to chemtrails, whether preparing the world for alien habitation or not??

Originally posted by waynos

(But) attacking someone for simply giving the opposite view Is completely against the whole spirit of a discussion board. It also suggests an inability to answer the points raised and that the real truth is somehow uncomfortable, but maybe that is just my interpretation.

Whatever, all the "why do you post here" "you are a troll" replies are very distasteful examples of cyber bullying. I would never trust a word said by anyone who's case was so weak they had to resort to it. Can't people just address the topic?

This is true, and is the case in many posts/replies.
If you don't agree with the information provided...then please address the info that you disagree with.....not the fact that "hey, you disagree, therefore you must be a player in part of a conspiracy".....and then lend little or no rebuttal to the information provided.
This is the same as saying, "shut-up, we don't need any contrary opinions.".
....which does nothing to further the discussion in a meaningful way.

reply to post by Nobama

oh and chemtrails are real you cant prove otherwise, trololol

Here is a better idea, why don't you prove they are real? Now that's a challenge.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

One flaw with the so-called "aluminum debunking". You know what else is ubiquitous in our environment? Arsenic. Its present in our drinking water, in our soil, in the rain. Does that mean it is good for you? That in high enough concentrations, it wont have a negative health impact?

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Star for common-sense.

It seems to be missing from many "debunkers".

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

One flaw with the so-called "aluminum debunking". You know what else is ubiquitous in our environment? Arsenic. Its present in our drinking water, in our soil, in the rain. Does that mean it is good for you? That in high enough concentrations, it wont have a negative health impact?

Aluminum is 7% of the Earth's crust, (ranging from 1% to 30%) naturally, everywhere.

Arsenic is under 1ppb normally in soil and water (0.0000001%), and highly contaminated soil is still only 1000ppb (0.00001%).

Not the same thing at all.

Yes, EVERYTHING is toxic in sufficient quantities, even oxygen and water.

Sources:
www.spectrumanalytic.com...
www.eco-usa.net...

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Absolutely - same with Oxygen, and iron, and even water (and I'm not talking about drowning - drinking too much water can kill you)

Almost everything is toxic if you have too much of it, and things that are not actually toxic can kill you in other ways - such as inert gases that can suffocate if there's too much of them and so not enough oxygen.

Aluminium toxicity to humans is known, and apparently is a threat to people with renal problems, and has also been noticed in people who had dialysis with some high-aluminium water in England -

Aluminum toxicity was originally described in the mid-to-late 1970s in a series of patients in Newcastle, England, through an associated osteomalacic dialysis osteodystrophy that appeared to reverse itself upon changing of the dialysate water to deionized water (ie, aluminum-depleted water).

- from a page of the link above

According to this page on testing from that same link, blood testing is essentially useless. However testing for an increase in blood levels after the specified treatment to release it from tissue & bone can show how much is stored in those - the specified increase is 200 nano-grams per millilitre of blood - ie you take the blood level before treatment, then an hour after - if the level has increased by that 200ngm then you have a positive clinical indication of aluminium poisoning - the test is:

90% specific and has a positive predictive value of 85% for aluminum toxicity.

So where are all the people exhibiting aluminium toxicity??

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Thank you, that was exactly the point I was trying to make. I am certainly not claiming chemtrails are real-i dont claim to know either way. I simply want to make it known that just because it is in the environment does not mean it is safe.

As to the previous poster who rebutted my claim, dilution is irrelevant. The point is that, just becuase something is naturally occurring does not mean it is safe. And dilution certainly doesnt mean anything unless you qualify it with the information of at what level it becomes toxic.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


All around us as far as I'm concerned.

I'm 29, and have noticed that most who aren't doing their damnedest to stay healthy are having many issues, such as memory loss, and a lack of critical thinking (mild cognitive-impairment). You haven't noticed how people on the whole seem to be more run-down and in poor health as the years roll on? I can't say for certainty that this is related to chemtrails and aluminum toxicity, but it certainly seems to be a product of the rise in pollution, and bioaccumulation of these substances, at least in part.

And I thought thats what automobils were for to get the general masses to help speed up the process?????

reply to post by unityemissions


I'm 52, and I'm certainly more run down than I was 30 years ago!!

But no - I haven't noticed any great problem - pollution and respiratory issues are certainly problems for some, but the air is actually better now than when i was a kid - as a personal example, I used to go to a highschool next to a bus depot, and on cold mornings the smoke of diesel busses was a major health hazard - but diesel busses now are cleaner burning than they used to be.

AFAIK air quality around the western industrialised world has improved over my lifetime - awareness of pullutino is massively increased, organisation such as Greens & others have actually mobilised public opinion in many good ways on the environment.

S&F

I think the only aluminum that is hurting people, is the aluminum pipe that chemmies smoke from

Sorry, I could'nt help it

Keep up the good work ATG......I enjoy your threads.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
As to the previous poster who rebutted my claim, dilution is irrelevant. The point is that, just becuase something is naturally occurring does not mean it is safe. And dilution certainly doesnt mean anything unless you qualify it with the information of at what level it becomes toxic.

It means it is safe in the dilutions that it naturally occurs at. So natural levels of aluminum or arsenic in our food and water are non-toxic.

The dilution of aluminum is of special interest though. You could drop a million tons of aluminum oxide every year and it would not have one jot of impact on the existing quintillions of tons already there.

But it you dropped a ton of arsenic out of a plane, then it would be a major disaster.

Dilution is actually the only thing that is relevant when talking about toxicity.

www.atsdr.cdc.gov...

The average adult in the U.S. eats about 7-9 mg aluminum per day in their food.

So 7-9 mg of aluminum per day is perfectly natural. Humans have evolved to be tolerant of aluminum because there is so much of it everywhere, in our food, air and water.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Thank you, that was exactly the point I was trying to make. I am certainly not claiming chemtrails are real-i dont claim to know either way. I simply want to make it known that just because it is in the environment does not mean it is safe.

However to make het claim that it is dangerous, as the article I was lambasting in the OP does, you have to show that the elvels being found ARE dangerous - simply identifying aluminium and barium and even strontium in blood and air and water is maningless - they all occur naturally.

As to the previous poster who rebutted my claim, dilution is irrelevant. The point is that, just becuase something is naturally occurring does not mean it is safe. And dilution certainly doesnt mean anything unless you qualify it with the information of at what level it becomes toxic.

the reverse is also true - as above - you cannot claim that aluminium is dangerous because aluminium toxicity exists - you have to qualify it with the level at which it is toxic, and the level at which it is encountered.

so far, AFAIK, there has been nothing in the way of toxic levels of aluminium or barium identified by any of the tests by various chemtrail believers.