There is NO God!

There are a whole lot of things that I find incredible to exist in reality if indeed there is a God. If there is one, and being an agnostic, I can't exclude the notion entirely, this God must have put this reality on auto-pilot and has no actual connection with anything residing within it. Bad things happen inexplicably to good people because there is no ethereal oversight to prevent it from taking place. That is if God exists. If not, then bad things happen to good people because there was never anything ethereal that could have prevented it to begin with.

Originally posted by MacKiller
That's right, you heard me, He doesn't exist.
If there was a God, 911 would still JUST be a telephone number.
If there was a God, little children wouldn't be dying of cancer while their parents become homeless to pay for his therapy.
If there was a God, innocent bystanders wouldn't be frequently heard on the 6 o'clock news.
If there was a God, bad things wouldn't happen to good people.

What god are you refering too? Am I to assume that it is the Christian version?

If a 'god' exists then perhaps it does not care about cancer victims or aids patients or hungry children or you or me. Perhaps we are not as important as we pretend to be. Perhaps 'it' CAN'T care. Does a rock care that it is a rock? Does it care if it is used as an instrument to bludgen a life or destroy property or dam a stream? A rock does not care because it does not have consciousness; it can not tell between 'I' and 'other', rock and not rock. This does not mean that it does not exist, but rather that it does not exist unto itself.

I'm always amazed at the arrogance displayed on these threads. All these people feel so smug hiding behind their terminals trashing their Savior.

But God knows who you are and you won't be denying Him when you're bowing before Him.
What are you going to say when He asks you, "Why did you deny Me?"
You'll be a blubbering mess begging for your soul when God says, "You had your chance and you chose to deny me. You have no excuse."
Then what will you say? Will you lie to the Almighty and say, "I was deceived, My Lord. I didn't know."? Will you grovel before Him and beg Him for eternity?

How will your arrogance help you then?
I mean what does showing contempt for God on these threads do for you anyways? Does it make you feel like you have some kind of power or control? Do you use your contempt for God to inflate your inadequate egos?
Mankind is so pitiful. It's really no wonder why God allows Satan to bring anguish into your lives. I mean on one hand, you deny God to everyone that will give you the opportunity, and then on the other hand, you whine and complain and wonder why God doesn't protect you from Satan's destruction. You actually blame God for the pain you, yourselves invite into your lives?!
Your stupidity is astounding.

Originally posted by MacKiller
That's right, you heard me, He doesn't exist.

If there was a God, 911 would still JUST be a telephone number.

If there was a God, little children wouldn't be dying of cancer while their parents become homeless to pay for his therapy.

If there was a God, innocent bystanders wouldn't be frequently heard on the 6 o'clock news.

If there was a God, bad things wouldn't happen to good people.

This list can go on forever, but I think I made my point.

Hmmm, I guess first of all, it helps if one defines what they think God is, before they say what he does and doesn't do.

Although you don't think there is a God, what are you saying there isn't? (If that makes sense!) In other words, what do you think God is, that makes you not believe there is one?

I'm not into religion and no i dont really believe in 'God'- but i do believe God is something- like nature all around us.

I think that having something to believe in is good- and that it can help people.
My dads friend nearly two years ago was dianosed with a brain tumour- 2 years on his is doing ok- he has been in for major surgery that was life threatning and come through it- and he turned to religion in a big way- and i believe it has helped him- his girlfriend is now pregnant and they are moving on to a better place.

I also believe in postitive thinking- i believe im never going to get cancer- and i am not.

To say there is no God is harsh- yeah its your opinion- but i think its quite a sore point in some peoples lifes- like i said Religion gives people something to believe in- everyone has a right to do it.

We need Raphael_UO in here...that dude's smart. And sublime, I agree with you. That's just ignorance. Asking those questions because you don't understand them isn't ignorance, it's questioning...but using them as a basis for not believing is ignorance. If you want to see another example of this thread...look at my thread titled, "Still not understanding". It's basically the same thing.

Originally posted by Herman
We need Raphael_UO in here...that dude's smart. And sublime, I agree with you. That's just ignorance. Asking those questions because you don't understand them isn't ignorance, it's questioning...but using them as a basis for not believing is ignorance. If you want to see another example of this thread...look at my thread titled, "Still not understanding". It's basically the same thing.

Most of the things I could have said in this thread have already been said. There is a difference between your thread and this one. Perhaps the difference is subtle, but they are not the same.

There is nothing I can say that will prove "God is." I learned long ago that debating the existance of God usually turns into a "Is not. Is too. Is not. Is too." argument. Oddly enough, I learned that lesson while debating the "Is not." point of view.

There is nothing I can say that will prove to anyone God exists. I believe because at a time when I was hopeless, I spoke words to a prayer I learned as a child. I did not believe in God when I spoke these words, but He believed in me. He saw that I knew this prayer was my last hope and He answered.

What does that mean to someone who doesn't believe in God? Not much.

I do not have answers for why things happen. I have spent time in a hospital ICU waiting to see if my son would survive. The doctors did their thing. I prayed. In the next area was another child that had the same virus as my son. His parents prayed. My son survived, but the child next to my son did not. I didn't have an answer for that child's parents. I still wonder why my son lived and the other child did not.

Things happen which test our faith. How we respond is our choice.

The book of Job is the "things happen" book in the bible. It is an example of how "bad things could happen to good people".

Raphael

First of all I beleive in God.

Proof... look around you, everything and anything is God !


Why do bad people do bad things... Freewill !

Oh yeah, remember that, God gave us free will to do what we please.

I think that's why bad things happen.

just my thought... you may proceed now !

oh yeah... I pray for the non-beleivers too, good luck.

Originally posted by MacKiller
There is NO God!
That's right, you heard me, He doesn't exist.

First of all, if you are wanting to have a discussion on this matter, I would have started out differently. This type of post would have been well placed in the "Rants" topic. Imagine what the response would be if I started out a new thread with "All you sinners will BURN IN HELL! BURN, BURN, I TELL YOU!"

As you can see, ranting is like a train blowing it's whistle. It makes a large steam cloud and lots of noise, but it doesn't actually move the train down the track. You have to harness that energy into something constructive to get any work done.

I think the issues that you are dealing with is the apparent chaos that seems to afflict innocent people. This all goes back to the point that God doesn't want robots, he wants free-thinking people. What God desires most is for you to love him. Not out of obligation, or necessity, but because you choose to do so on your own.

What would you call someone that I had chained in my basement. A person that did as I said or they would be punished? A slave. Even if I had good intentions. Say I locked them in my house so they couldn't go outside where bad stuff could happen to them. They would only stay because they had no choice. In these situations, it's impossible to expect this person to have any true, lasting fondness for me. If what I want the most is true love and respect, then I have to be willing to take a risk that I won't get it. I have to let go.

God gives people free will, so that they can develop a true, lasting love for him. True, some people choose not to do that. Should God stop them from robbing a bank, or shooting someone? That would be interfering with their choices, and ruin any possibility of them loving God. Yes, God desires that even the "bad" people choose to love him, and has made it possible for them to be forgiven for their actions, no matter what they have done.

God will give you gentle nudges the way a man would send poems and chocolate to a girl he loves. Little reminders that say, "I really love you. Do you love me?", but he won't (usually) "smite the wicked". I'm sure you would think a man would do anything to protect his sweetheart from harm. That's true, but to God, everyone is a potential sweetheart, so no one can have their freewill revoked. So as long as people make bad choices, we have suicide bombers, and bank robbers in the world.

I have seen a lot of people putting (a conscious) god and freewill in the same sentence, but I do not see how this is in the least bit possible. If god is omnipotent (aka all knowing) then he knows the future. If this is so then the future already IS and your life, your decisions and actions, are already predefined. Hence one does not have freewill if an omnipotent conscious god exists.

You can't have your cake and eat it too because once you do the cake turns into poo.

Well if you ignore God and do not believe in Him, how can he help if you dont embrace?? People say "if there is a God, why all the wars", well if man ignores God and refuse to accept Him then we are all doom. Remember the true of Knowledge that Man wasnt meant to eat from(gave man knowledge of Good and Evil)?? well, we ate from it and this is why we have bad things in the world.

checkers- man is not THAT bad, okay? It would seem that God finds people who can back up their resoning with why she doesn't exist extremely interesting. Jesus freaks, not so much. But that's just a guess. and infinite- that story is totally a fabrication, do you really think god would feel that we are too weak to handle truth?

If God is all loving, then God accepts many points of view, even those against him. So pish posh with the "God doesn't help you because you don't accept God" crap. That's all it is, stupid, pointless, redundant chatter.

HUmankind is not inferior. I am in no way inferior to my God. I do not bow to her, she does not bow to me. We embrace. Sure, I admit that he is smarter, wiser, more loviing and forgiving, etc. But that does not make me any less important. Why is there evil? Because we've got evil inside of us. If you say that things like 9-11 happen because there is no god, then you're obviously playing into the weakness that is fate, assuming that if God exists, God controlls everything. HUmans DO have power eh? A human can save the world without the help of God, and one can destroy the world without the help of Satan.

People call me blasphemous because I talk about God in such a casual light. But if God is such a caregiver, why would you speak of them inf ear? Would you rather your children fear you, or speak with you on the same level? And even if your child hated you, would you still love it? Athiests are no better than you jerky community church leeches, sod on't go walking around with your heads high and your pompous Jesus-loving propoganda. In the end, God would probably rather go grab a latte with the chilled out ones that don't believe in him rather than the fanatics that turn against those who don't convert to their beliefs.

God and I go out for pizza on Saturday afternoons sometimes, she told me to tell you guys to chill.

[Edited on 9-7-04 by Scat]

NO God

Oh, well at least you have a good argument.

Anyone else care to hear more than two word answers?

Originally posted by Jonna
I have seen a lot of people putting (a conscious) god and freewill in the same sentence, but I do not see how this is in the least bit possible. If god is omnipotent (aka all knowing) then he knows the future. If this is so then the future already IS and your life, your decisions and actions, are already predefined. Hence one does not have freewill if an omnipotent conscious god exists.

You can't have your cake and eat it too because once you do the cake turns into poo.

When I was younger, I used to picture our lives being like a large maze. Each choice of direction in the maze was a choice we make in life. While living in the maze, we only see the choices we make. I used to imagine God having an aerial view of the maze; able to see not only the choices we were making, but the choices we didn't make, as well as choices past the ones we didn't take.

Now that I am older, and know something about "many worlds quantum theory" that maze became more interesting. As a "parallel we" is actually making all the choices, even those "this we" didn't make.

In this light, I do not believe "If this is so then the future already IS and your life, your decisions and actions, are already predefined. Hence one does not have freewill if an omnipotent conscious god exists." is a logical conclusion.

"Many worlds quantum theory" also allows for the cake to not only be eaten, but also not eaten.

.
To me these angry, short tempered, judgemental Gods, all sound pretty small potatoes to me. Maybe it's a testosterone problem or something. An infinitely powerful and commanding god is most likely going to be pretty sublime.

If that is all a so called God can come up with he/she/it needs to work on his program.

Some of these God's sound like they have an anger management problem.
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To those Evangelical Christians: Please stop telling people they are going to hell. It just makes you sound crazy. You believe what you believe because you feel it to be true, not because you have evidence. The followers of Jim Jones and Marshall Applewhite had faith too, but that didn't make them right. These people were willing to kill themselves because they believed so much. When you say that you can't prove God exists, yet continue to attack others, you sound crazy. I cannot prove that invisible flying monkeys don't exist, but even if I believed that they did, It would be wrong for me to abuse you for not agreeing with me. Just take it easy.

M'kay. Well. I didn't really read what everyone had to say, but I did read a few responses and I must say I disagree with a lot of them. I don't mind what all of you think, but I would just like to state my opinion.

So, what you're saying on this post is that there's no God because he would have prevented all of the bad stuff from happening? Well maybe you should get the facts before you speak it out.

When the earth was created, God created man and woman. The world was basically *perfect*. There was one tree though that the people couldn't eat from. Then Satan comes along in the form of a snake and tells the woman to eat from the tree. She does and so does the man. It all goes basically downhill from there.

As you see, it wasn't God's fault that the people did what he told them not to. It was the man and woman's fault. So, basically everything wrong that happens in this world is our fault, not God's.

Also- if there is no God, how did we get here? I mean, there's the whole evolution theory, but seriously. Think about that for just a second. We were created in the image of God, so to speak. Our eyes are in a perfect spot. They're right there next to each other, right in front of us so we can see. Our ears are in a perfect spot on the sides of our head so we can hear. Our mouth and nose and hands and feet... Everything. They're all built in such a detailed way. Do you really think evolution could do that? I mean, imagine if our teeth were on the bottom of our feet or on our legs... wouldn't that be just a bit weird? You really have to think about this stuff. Science isn't everything. They don't know everything even though they may say they do.

I'm not saying science is wrong all the time either. They have found out some pretty interesting stuff. But there are things you have to have faith to believe in. Not just an experiment.

Yeah, so basically I'm not trying to convert anyone or insult anyone. It's just my opinion and hopefully I made some sense.

Thanks for reading what I have to say.

-hannah

Well, although I believe in a creator, not evolution, I can back up some of it. See, evolution works upon the theorie that we are all a genetic accident (basically). Someone developes a mutation, it accidentally helps them survive, and they re-produce. They have offspring etc. etc. The things that did not have the trait died off because they couldn't survive as well. To me, that's B.S... If evolution were true, we wouldn't all be the same. We would all have stuff in slightly different places. We would all vary alot more in our height, and strength. There would also probably be organisms that are alot closer to our intelligence. And if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys!?

This thread is retarded.