Will Russian Soldiers leave Chechnya?

Originally posted by Flyboy211
Russia one day must wake up and say to itself, enough is enough no more of being under the thumbs of petty criminals, thugs who don't have the true interest of Russia at heart. Corruption somehow someway MUST be eliminated, then and only then can Russia get back on it's feet properly.

I have long held the unpleasant opinion that the only way for this to happen is for Russia to become a fascist state. After the departure of communism, and the Church being complacent, I don't see any other ideological force to get the job done.

No i think it can be done under a government that's democratic, just they'd need to be very hard line and unrelenting against criminal activity and corruption.

What Russia needs is to re-finance itself again, a good idea you Aelita suggested was to nationalize the oil industry. Get more money in to the government and set small goals for itself and to the public and them act on them.

That way the government will eventually restore the public's faith, alienate itself from the mafia and other thugs and gain big support against suppressing criminal activities. I know it's not as easy as that but that's a step in the right direction.

A government for the people!

Originally posted by Russian
I know very well that Putin will launch a mass attack on these scums. This will be his excuse and I wish it comes faster.

Russian:

I also feel that an attack must be launched. What happened to innocent Russian people this few years (theatre, future chechyan president, Moscow subway, the two planes last month) is unacceptable, if you want a war DECLARE IT, don't pick off civilians. Cowards.

Not all muslims are terrorists,
but all terrorists are muslims.

Don't sit in silence,
Don't live with fear.

[edit on 4-9-2004 by Ezekial]

Originally posted by Trader
The problem is what do we call these people.

You call these people gutless, cowardly, inhuman monsters to kill and maim innocent people, especially innocent, harmless and helpless children.

Are they freedom fighters, desparate for a homeland, or 'terrorists', taking innocent children hostage.

You can't even begin to consider these barbaric criminals "freedom fighters". They've gone beyond "terrorists". They are no better than an overflowing garbage bag. What do you do with overflowing garbage bags? You take them out, that's what you do.

It's not easy when the issue is so emotive...

There exists no issues when children's lives become involved. When Russia does something, and most definitely she will, there'd better be not one negative comment said about her actions. The person doing the protesting will have become garbage themselves for being sympathetic to the terrorist garbage.

[edit on 4/9/04 by Intelearthling]

Originally posted by nativeokie
No matter how bad you feel your situation is (Chechens) when they take over a school and murder children then they have lost all right to expect a peaceful solution or

sympathy from the rest of the world.

It is time to crush these people, they blew that school up this morning with those kids inside. They killed kids on the first day and they held them for 3 days with suicide

belts, land mines and guns.

I hope they all go to their god in pieces!

So from what i understood, anyone who kidnaps/kills children then he should go to his god in pieces!. Fine, lets start with the Russian they killed lots of Chechnya kids, but as always all in hush hush. The Chechnya don't have a media to show you the crises except what you saw from kidnapping kids. But as usual you always listen to one side and leave the other.

You reminded me with my mother, when we were kids my older brother used to beat me up when we go out side, when i get home i have to let him pay back (thinking my mother would protect me) but when beat him back, she (my mother) thinks i'm the one who started it!! and i get the blame.. and when i tell her he started it first she doesnt believe me.

These might be a good info to you:

Human Rights Situation in Chechnya
Unpublished government statistics confirm the high risk of abuse civilians face in Chechnya. According to an unpublished report on criminal activity in Chechnya, in 2002 1,132 civilians were killed, or between five and eight times the murder rate for Russia, and between ten and fifteen times the murder rate for Moscow.3 A second unpublished report, providing crime statistics for the first months of 2003, stated that for January and February there were seventy murders, 126 abductions, and twenty-five cases in which human corpses were found. Accompanying the statistics were detailed descriptions of more than 185 crimes in Chechnya committed in January and February 2003; in many, federal forces are implicated.

Throughout the past year, the Russian government sought to limit the flow of information from Chechnya. It barred outside scrutiny of the conflict by refusing to renew the mandate of the OSCE Assistance Group to Chechnya, forcing its closure, and by refusing to arrange visits to the region by several U.N. special mechanisms. The government also denied Human Rights Watch access to the region for the tenth time since the outbreak of the conflict in 1999. Finally, the government harassed several Chechen human rights advocates, one of whom subsequently "disappeared" after being taken into custody.

New Killings and "Disappearances" in Chechnya
"Russia has a sorry record on accountability for abuse in Chechnya," said Andersen. "And meanwhile, there is no official record of the atrocities that are being perpetrated.

The U.N. Human Rights Commission in Geneva must prevail upon Russia to invite special U.N. investigators on extrajudicial executions and torture. They can establish an official record of these abuses."

The War Through My Eyes
I was in a neighbor's basement, in Urus Martan. We were there because they fired rockets at us. It was bad in the basement. It was dangerous. It was cold and dark and damp. We were there for a long time. Mostly our relatives. One small girl, the daughter of the people whose house it was, went deaf because of the shelling. I was scared.
�Saidat, Age 10

The War Through My Eyes
They were bombing and our neighbor's house was destroyed. People were crying. I was very scared. I remember Russians shelling our neighborhood, and one man and one girl was injured. The heel of the girl's foot and the man's leg were blown off. Those were my neighbors, people I knew.
�Makka, Age 8

Interviews with Relatives of the �Disappeared� in Chechnya (RealVideo, 6.1Mb)
This video was produced by Human Rights Watch, the Memorial Human Rights Center, and Witness. In it, the relatives of three "disappeared" people tell how their loved ones were detained, and describe their fruitless search efforts. Hundreds of people have "disappeared" since the armed conflict in Chechnya started in September 1999. As the conflict grinds on, "disappearances" have become an ugly part of everyday life. In April 2002, Human Rights Watch published a report documenting 91 "disappearance" cases that either took place or came to light in 2001; In March 2001, Human Rights Watch documented 113 cases.

[edit on 5-9-2004 by fanoose]

Originally posted by fanoose

Originally posted by nativeokie
No matter how bad you feel your situation is (Chechens) when they take over a school and murder children then they have lost all right to expect a peaceful solution

So from what i understood, anyone who kidnaps/kills children then he should go to his god in pieces!. Fine, lets start with the Russian they killed lots of Chechnya kids, but as always all in hush hush. The Chechnya don't have a media to show you the crises except what you saw from kidnapping kids. But as usual you always listen to one side and leave the other.

It's sad fact that children, at times, get caught up in acts of war, but the recent happenings at a Russian school was nothing less than a cowardly, murderous atrocity. Not one political motive was present.

Why does one group of people have to revert to taking hundreds upon hundreds of children, along with their parents and teachers, captive for three days without food and water, sneering at these little kids, threatening their lives as they laugh at these children's suffering, and forcing them to drink their own urine to quench their thirst and then in the end, killing these little ones?

The answer may lie in their ruthless, evil hearts. They have an inability to communicate their griefs to the government of Russia to find a peaceful solution, so they must terrorize and kill children that pose them no threat at all to get thier point across. Well they certainly got their point across.

On top of that, they are spineless cowards to have gotten a group of people with a history of no regards for any human life to do their evil deeds.

Now they have really shown the entire world what they're made of, and it doesn't have any place in a world that tries to find common ground so that we, as a world community, can look foward to a peaceful future.

It is very well possible that will get thier long sought after peace sooner than they would want... Rest In Peace, in other words, but that will be impossibe if you're burning in Hell.





[edit on 5/9/04 by Intelearthling]

The last news from Europe 1 --France give 394 childrens dead
700 bless� --donc 60% grave !

I am OK whit build319--mess. 3.9.04 AT 09:46!
The problem ---Putin is not Bregniev he is also manipulated by
the russian mafia!


chapo