Will Russian Soldiers leave Chechnya?

Look people, Russia has never specifically targeted children before in this conflict with Chechnya. They have never gone in and threated to kill children. Whoever wants to sympathize with them fine, but get one things straight. The Chechnians blew up a school today and that is unforgivable. The directly targeted children and murdered children, which is unforgivable. They will *never* see peace after this situation and they can probably mark this one move as there biggest mistake for independence. Putin will use this event to unleash wrath upon them to the likes that they have never seen.

and Aelita, sorry i didnt wanna say the kids deserve it..it was russia in general, and deserving was a wrong way to say it, i say i can understand that they strike back in some ways [not against kids], its just that people always look at one side.
Also this ethnically cleansing was because the way they have been threated..like after ww2, it wasnt save to enter holland as a german..not like this, its just an example

Originally posted by jozuph
Also this ethnically cleansing was because the way they have been threated..like after ww2, it wasnt save to enter holland as a german..not like this, its just an example

All right, they got a rough deal from Stalin for collaborating with the Nazis, that doesn't give them the right to cut open stomachs of the local Russians, cut the guts out and stuff them with straw (and that's what they've been known to have done).

I'm sorry but Holland doesn't come close to this.

Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by jozuph
Russia has nothing to do there...

Russia has plenty to do there. Russians have been kidnapped, murdered and ethnically cleansed for years, and you know what, the Chechen republic is Russian territory. Leaving it to wahhabi, drug trafficers and kidnappers is not an option.

thats stupid, the Chechen republic is Russian territory, he its more then ovious that they dont like that isnt it, why give belarussians their country and not Chechia, russia is like the usa, always been also..

Originally posted by Aelita
The Chechen fighters are a mix of wahhabi extremists, on one hand, and plain gangsters on the other, and some in between. The cleansing of Chechnya from the Russian population began in the early 90-s and was 100% brutal. They had sovereignty within the RF, but those extremists elements had something else in mind.

No sympathy to this cause anymore... Enuff.

Thank you for pointing out that Islamic extremism is involved in this conflict. Once again we can be reminded where this particular brand of savagry is coming from. I'm waiting for Muslim apologists to try to defend this, but there is no defense.

And the Islamic takeover of Europe continues...

Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by jozuph
Also this ethnically cleansing was because the way they have been threated..like after ww2, it wasnt save to enter holland as a german..not like this, its just an example

All right, they got a rough deal from Stalin for collaborating with the Nazis, that doesn't give them the right to cut open stomachs of the local Russians, cut the guts out and stuff them with straw (and that's what they've been known to have done).

I'm sorry but Holland doesn't come close to this.

thats why i said, as an example, i dont wanna compare holland/germany back then to this..i see it simple, they want their own country, like more wanted and got. Now its the otherway around, their kids guts are being cut open..thats why i said, in this way things like this never stop....

Originally posted by jozuph
thats stupid, the Chechen republic is Russian territory, he its more then ovious that they dont like that isnt it, why give belarussians their country and not Chechia, russia is like the usa, always been also..

Belarus was a SEPARATE republic of the Soviet Union, with borders and administrative structures to this effect. Chechnya was a subject of the Russian Federation, populated by a few different ethnicities. The Russian Republic didn't have any jusrisdiction over Belarus, but it did over one of its provinces, which is Chechnya. What's so difficult to understand here.

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Thank you for pointing out that Islamic extremism is involved in this conflict. Once again we can be reminded where this particular brand of savagry is coming from. I'm waiting for Muslim apologists to try to defend this, but there is no defense.

And the Islamic takeover of Europe continues...

I don't think this is an Islamic issue.. it seem to be a Chechen nationalist thing. Plus, Chechnya isn't even in Europe.

[edit on 3/9/04 by muppet]

Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by jozuph
thats stupid, the Chechen republic is Russian territory, he its more then ovious that they dont like that isnt it, why give belarussians their country and not Chechia, russia is like the usa, always been also..

Belarus was a SEPARATE republic of the Soviet Union, with borders and administrative structures to this effect. Chechnya was a subject of the Russian Federation, populated by a few different ethnicities. The Russian Republic didn't have any jusrisdiction over Belarus, but it did over one of its provinces, which is Chechnya. What's so difficult to understand here.

well i thought i was the same situation, still it doesnt really metter, under the ussr you saw everything as your province..

Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by jozuph
thats stupid, the Chechen republic is Russian territory, he its more then ovious that they dont like that isnt it, why give belarussians their country and not Chechia, russia is like the usa, always been also..

Belarus was a SEPARATE republic of the Soviet Union, with borders and administrative structures to this effect. Chechnya was a subject of the Russian Federation, populated by a few different ethnicities. The Russian Republic didn't have any jusrisdiction over Belarus, but it did over one of its provinces, which is Chechnya. What's so difficult to understand here.

well i thought it was the same situation, still it doesnt really metter, under the ussr you saw everything as your province..

Originally posted by jozuph
well i thought it was the same situation, still it doesnt really metter, under the ussr you saw everything as your province..

No, that's not the case at all.

The damn Russian Oligarchs sitting there in the parlaiment are making money off of that war! They sell Soviet weapons to the rebels. If anyone tries to sop them they will be killed. Who do you think killed the new Chechen leader not long ago and why? So until they are stopped Russian troops are probably going to be in Chechnya, they wont let Chechnya separate.

[edit on 3-9-2004 by AD5673]

Originally posted by AD5673
The damn Russian Oligarchs sitting there in the parlaiment are making money off of that war! They sell Soviet weapons to the rebels. If anyone tries to sop them they will be killed. Who do you think killed the new Chechen leader not long ago and why? So until they are stopped Russian troops are probably going to be in Chechnya, they wont let Chechnya separate.

Real oligarchs are not in the Parlaiment and they don't profit from the realitively small arms trade with the Chechens (there are not direct sales anyway). I don't think the oligarchs ordered a hit on Kadyrov, there was more likely infighting in Chechnya itself.

And yes, I think the oligarchs are evil.

I'm praying for the oil proces to go down so that the current system in Russia collapses.

Originally posted by Aelita
I'm praying for the oil proces to go down so that the current system in Russia collapses.

What sort of system would you like to see in Russia? (just wondering.. I'd like to learn more about what Russia is like these days..)

[edit on 3/9/04 by muppet]

Originally posted by muppet

Originally posted by Aelita
I'm praying for the oil proces to go down so that the current system in Russia collapses.

What sort of system would you like to see in Russia? (just wondering.. I'd like to learn more about what Russia is like these days..)

I would like to see a system that cares about its citizens. I'm not sure how many people on this board are aware how rough a deal was handed to the retirees who depend on the govt pension (which they earned anyway during their productive years) to survive. Medicine and medical care costs are rising despite being nominally free. The remote regions of the RF are in collapse. The list can go on and on.

When a Russian businessman buys Chelsea (the famous British soccer team), you have to wonder just to what degree the Russian folks have been robbed.

You can bash me all you want but the oil reserves need to be nationalized. Ordinary people aren't getting much of this wealth anyway, and I don't care if Khodorkovsky can't afford another $50M mansion in London.

Organized crime needs to be stopped.

Originally posted by Aelita
You can bash me all you want but the oil reserves need to be nationalized.

Not bashing you at all.. I think you are absolutely right! Sure, the oligarchs could claim they modernized an otherwise terribly inefficient industry, but in reality that could, and probably would have happened anyway.

Natural Resources = National Resources , I say!

[edit on 3/9/04 by muppet]

I firstly want to say that my thoughts and i hope all the board members are with the children and families who have suffered under this horrible, grotesque, savage and brutal act of terrorism, may all who've lost their lives rest in peace.

I'm sure Aelita will agree with me on this when i say that Russia has a BIG problem with corruption at the moment, particularly organized crime and the Mafia. They are the cancer of any society and especially Russia's. When i was listening to the report by ITN reporter Jonathan Manyon, one of the things he talked about was the problem with corruption among the Russian military officers who apparently have given information to Chechens in the past among other things.

Russia one day must wake up and say to itself, enough is enough no more of being under the thumbs of petty criminals, thugs who don't have the true interest of Russia at heart. Corruption somehow someway MUST be eliminated, then and only then can Russia get back on it's feet properly.

Now back to the subject at hand, after this recent atrocity i doubt Putin will withdraw from Chechnya. My personal feeling on the matter is that Putin may organize his forces better and may actually strike back harder at Chechnya, this isn't the best solution but considering Russia's suffered this attack i don't know what they can do.

I was watching CNN and a guy from Stanford University in America said that Putin needs to address the issue of the nationalists and extremists. That he should negotiate more with the nationalists who truly want freedom for Chechnya and through negotiation attempt to sever their ties from the extremists who only want chaos and mayhem. I think this appoach may be more effective rather than sending in columns of T-72's, SU-25's, AK & PK infantries and simply rolling over Chechnya.

My thoughts are with the Russian people and with you Aelita.



[edit on 3/9/04 by Flyboy211]

Russia will never leave Chechnya until every terrorists is killed and the region has peace again. What i hope will happen now is that Putin launches a massive attack on Chechnya and make the terrorists suffer huge causlties. Also I hope when they come into Chechnya they kill every man, women, and child there. Why? Becasue the women are terrorists too and when the children grow up they will also follow the parnets lead.

Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by jozuph
thats stupid, the Chechen republic is Russian territory, he its more then ovious that they dont like that isnt it, why give belarussians their country and not Chechia, russia is like the usa, always been also..

Belarus was a SEPARATE republic of the Soviet Union, with borders and administrative structures to this effect. Chechnya was a subject of the Russian Federation, populated by a few different ethnicities. The Russian Republic didn't have any jusrisdiction over Belarus, but it did over one of its provinces, which is Chechnya. What's so difficult to understand here.

Chechnya to Russia is like Idaho to to USA.

I know very well that Putin will launch a mass attack on these scums. This will be his excuse and I wish it comes faster.