It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
The Origins of man & the real meaning of religion.
page: 4share:
reply to post by autowrench
Actually, I am looking at the Biblical God as a whole, not just a nit pick here and there, looking at only the good things. I do believe in a benevolent and loving Creator/ess, but failed to find that in the Bible. One thing that really throws me a curve about the Christian religion is this: They believe three males created everyone, and everything. Now here is wisdom. A Female Creator could in fact create a male consort for herself, but a male could not create a women. Not one man alive can truly understand a woman's thinking processes, and what they really want, but, they can figure us men out pretty fast. And another thing.
I came into this world through a women's vagina , and waters, not from the loins of a man. Saying that the Divine is three males makes no sense at all. Where is the Mother, I ask?
He HIMself has provided the way to be made for us to be reconnected with our Creator - through Jesus Christ. That is the love, mercy and grace of an awesome GOD - the REAL,(as a whole - to use your own words) GOD of the Bible. You say that you "failed to find that in the Bible" ? Did you totally ignore the whole New Testament - the life of Jesus ? Did you ignore how many times GOD forgave Israel in the Old Testament - and STILL PROMISES them to this day, to be HIS holy people and that HE will save them once again - when Jesus comes back ? May I suggest that you read your Bible again (the Christian Holy Bible) and take special note of those very basic themes that I have pointed out. See if you can find them for yourself, friend.
Secondly, you oppose the way that people were made ? You say to the Creator of the whole universe that HE could never make a woman because He (being male) could never understand a woman ? That is an extremely narrow view of things - from an entirely limited frame of mind. (that is not an insult - let me explain).
How can we - as created - question the creator ?
Can a pot that is made turn around and question the potter who made it ?
Our very small brains cannot comprehend even the most basic stuff about our universe, so how can we seriously question the being that DOES understand even the most complex stuff about the universe ? - HE having MADE IT.
Here is some simple reading outlining some fundamental laws of our universe that we cannot understand/explain. Should we deny GOD exists because we don't understand how these things work - YET THEY DO WORK.
www.trans4mind.com...
I cannot find the wisdom in your argument at all. If that is the thing "that really throws you a curve" and holds you back from understanding that Jesus is the benevolent and loving creator that you believe in, then that is a very flimsy thread that you are clinging your eternal destiny onto my friend.
Now here is wisdom
Just for the record - I have been married a LONG time, and my wife is no closer to figuring me out than when we first met. !
Not one man alive can truly understand a woman's thinking processes, and what they really want, but, they can figure us men out pretty fast.
How did your mother become impregnated ? Was it from the loins of a man ? There has only been ONE immaculate conception friend.
not from the loins of a man
reply to post by conofhumans
Here is some basic info about the dead sea scrolls.........
www.centuryone.com...
Due to sin we are seperated spiritually from GOD, but we still intrinsically know HE is there.
An example to back up my claim - We are made to worship GOD (our creator). Because we are under the curse of sin, we natural DON"T worship GOD. But we still worship something - we can't help it. It is in our genetic makeup. What are things that we worship ?
money
power
sex
celebrities
food
comfort
material things
success
popularity
etc. etc.
NOT SAYING THAT THESE THINGS ARE BAD IN THEMSELVES - but when we worship them instead of GOD (which our sinful nature urges us to do) then they become a snare. We are made to worship - we HAVE to worship something.
It is great news that you feel that GOD is real and a part of us all. I encourage you to keep talking to your friend and ask her as many questions about Jesus (who is GOD) as you can possibly think of. Ask her to pray for you. Go with her to church one time and check it out. Ask the people at her church as many questions as you can. It's all good my friend. I would also encourage you to ask Jesus HIMself all the questions that you can think of (praying). Ask HIM to reveal HIMself to you. If you mean it, He will. Also friend, I encourage you to read the Bible.
Be blessed in your journey friend. Jesus says of HIMself, "Ask and you shall receive. Seek and you shall find. Knock and you shall enter".
Jesus is true and faithful. HE is the way, the truth and the life. No-one Knows GOD except by Jesus Christ.
Peace.
The gospel of Jesus is the ENTIRE Holy Bible friend. From the very first verse in the book to the very last verse in the book is the revelation of Jesus Christ ! Amen. The entire Scriptures are written about, written for, inspired by and through the Lord Jesus Christ. Even the details in the making of the tabernacle in the Old Testament points to the saving work of Jesus for mankind in HIS birth, death and resurrection. EVERY DETAIL IN THE BIBLE POINTS TO JESUS CHRIST SOMEHOW !
Where is the Gospel of Jesus? I have often wondered why Jesus couldn't just write his own teachings down instead relying on ordinary men to do it many years after his death.
Quite a number of papyrus and parchments found at Qumran have been proven to be written under psuedonyms and contradict the core themes in the accepted canon. The ones that you have listed above I believe fall into that catagory. They are classed as Non-Biblical.
Unless I'm mistaken which as a human we are falliable. The Gospel of Jesus is present in the Dead Sea Scrolls. As is the Gospel of Mary, and Thomas (the doubter)
Here is some basic info about the dead sea scrolls.........
www.centuryone.com...
You are absolutely correct my friend ! GOD IS intertwined into our core being - our DNA. That's how HE made us - in the image of HIMself, in HIS own likeness. When HE created us HE breathed HIS OWN SPIRIT into us - giving us life (that is our spiritual being). We are made of body, soul (our mind) and spirit.
I've had a recent discussion with with a friend about the topic of God, and Christianity. Shes a hardcore pentacostal girl. I come from a background of no belief. I simply feel that "God" is entertwined into our DNA sequences. Thus the beauty of the whole thing. I honestly think in the future science will reveal "God" as a tanglible part of all things.
Due to sin we are seperated spiritually from GOD, but we still intrinsically know HE is there.
An example to back up my claim - We are made to worship GOD (our creator). Because we are under the curse of sin, we natural DON"T worship GOD. But we still worship something - we can't help it. It is in our genetic makeup. What are things that we worship ?
money
power
sex
celebrities
food
comfort
material things
success
popularity
etc. etc.
NOT SAYING THAT THESE THINGS ARE BAD IN THEMSELVES - but when we worship them instead of GOD (which our sinful nature urges us to do) then they become a snare. We are made to worship - we HAVE to worship something.
It is great news that you feel that GOD is real and a part of us all. I encourage you to keep talking to your friend and ask her as many questions about Jesus (who is GOD) as you can possibly think of. Ask her to pray for you. Go with her to church one time and check it out. Ask the people at her church as many questions as you can. It's all good my friend. I would also encourage you to ask Jesus HIMself all the questions that you can think of (praying). Ask HIM to reveal HIMself to you. If you mean it, He will. Also friend, I encourage you to read the Bible.
Be blessed in your journey friend. Jesus says of HIMself, "Ask and you shall receive. Seek and you shall find. Knock and you shall enter".
Jesus is true and faithful. HE is the way, the truth and the life. No-one Knows GOD except by Jesus Christ.
Peace.
reply to post by 1king2rulethemall
Whoever presents objective evidence. So for example, the bible claims there was an exodus of thousands of people from Egypt to Israel. But since there's ZERO archeological evidence (aka OBJECTIVE evidence), we can conclude it never happened as told in the bible. And that's a FACT
It shouldn't be the ancients becausse they also believed in mermaids and sea monsters...or other ridiculous stuff like people surviving in whales
That's why only objective evidence (and the bible isn't objective evidence) is important...
You really need to learn the difference between objective and subjective. The Old Testament also claims humans just popped up in their current form without evolution, and we know for a FACT that's not what happened. And there's no geological evidence for a global flood...just local floods people back then mistook for a global one
In short, if you claim the bible is 100% correct, you are simply ignoring facts. Even worse, you also have to accept other nonsense like people surviving inside whales, which we KNOW is complete and utter nonsense
Please people, stop trying to dumb down others by repeating stuff that's demonstrably wrong
Ahhh. So who gets the job of descerning what is fact or fiction ? What they got "wrong" or what they got "right" ?
Whoever presents objective evidence. So for example, the bible claims there was an exodus of thousands of people from Egypt to Israel. But since there's ZERO archeological evidence (aka OBJECTIVE evidence), we can conclude it never happened as told in the bible. And that's a FACT
Should it be us - far removed from the ancient days ? Or should it be the peoples, nations, generations that actually lived in the times that the Holy Bible was recorded ? Shouldn't it be the people who were closest, both geographically and chronologically, to the original source, that determine what is fact or fiction ?
It shouldn't be the ancients becausse they also believed in mermaids and sea monsters...or other ridiculous stuff like people surviving in whales
That's why only objective evidence (and the bible isn't objective evidence) is important...
So....... taking that into context, the history of Israel supports the Old Testament account. The "myths and legends" of most ancient civilizations support a global flood, which in turn, supports the Old Testament account.
You really need to learn the difference between objective and subjective. The Old Testament also claims humans just popped up in their current form without evolution, and we know for a FACT that's not what happened. And there's no geological evidence for a global flood...just local floods people back then mistook for a global one
In short, if you claim the bible is 100% correct, you are simply ignoring facts. Even worse, you also have to accept other nonsense like people surviving inside whales, which we KNOW is complete and utter nonsense
Please people, stop trying to dumb down others by repeating stuff that's demonstrably wrong
find it astounding that you can believe this story, which has been discredited by EVERY scientific authority related to such a study, yet categorically deny the Holy Bible, which is proven scientifically, astronomically, archeologically, historically, mathematically, testimonially, and physically, AND MOST OF ALL - PROPHETICALLY.
Please friends, check out the Bible - it explains in detail what we need to know.
Be Blessed.
Great!! can you send me a link from a real science orginization that will back up all of your claims about the bible I have been waiting so long and have been so disappointed in the past. I am hoping this time all that you claim will be true
reply to post by MrXYZ
So for example, the bible claims there was an exodus of thousands of people from Egypt to Israel. But since there's ZERO archeological evidence (aka OBJECTIVE evidence), we can conclude it never happened as told in the bible.
PLEASE READ THIS WEBPAGE !!!
en.wikipedia.org...
And how are the people of today any different - they believe in aliens. Using your own criteria (again) as a measuring stick - YOU FALL SHORT ONCE AGAIN.
It shouldn't be the ancients becausse they also believed in mermaids and sea monsters...
Then show me the facts. You have talked and talked but have produced no credible evidence to "demonstrably" (your own word) support your claims. In all of your arguments I have presented legitimate proofs against them, enough to at least query your sources, but you dismiss them without "objective" (your own word) analysis. Your credibility is waning quickly. You are not practicing what you preach (pardon the pun).
The Old Testament also claims humans just popped up in their current form without evolution, and we know for a FACT that's not what happened.
So you are saying - that 95% of the ancient civilizations, covering the majority of the planet - who all confirm in their historical stories the event of a great flood - which all happened at the same time - over the majority of the planet at the same time - "mistook" the great flood which effected the majority of the civilizations at the same time on the majority of the planet, at the same time - as local flooding ? Your credibility is paper thin by now friend.
And there's no geological evidence for a global flood...just local floods people back then mistook for a global one
Can you prove "demonstrably" and "objectively" that the great flood didn't happen, by the way?
Like........ there was no exodus. The jews are still in egypt today being horrifically oppressed. Shouldn't we save them, or at least send them some donations to help their plight ?Or some Hallmark cards ?
Please people, stop trying to dumb down others by repeating stuff that's demonstrably wrong
Facts which you cannot "demonstrably" or "objectively" provide.
In short, if you claim the bible is 100% correct, you are simply ignoring facts. Even worse, you also have to accept other nonsense like people surviving inside whales, which we KNOW is complete and utter nonsense
For your information - Luke Skywalker survived inside the carcass of a Taun-Taun on the planet Hoth for several days. So there.
reply to post by 1king2rulethemall
Funny how the wiki article about Israel only cites the bible as source for the exodus, not a single reference to archeological findings
Not true, scientists don't claim aliens exist. They say given the size of the universe its likely, but so far, we have ZERO proof of alien life. Only uneducated people, and people who don't care about objective evidence state otherwise. But yeah, those people still exist, and you fall into that category of people who don't need objective evidence to believe something.
It's been linked a dozen times, you've ignored it every single time...so not sure what's the point...but here you go: LINK
All backed up by OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE, evidence we don't have for for aliens or stuff like people surviving in whales
If we didn't have evidence, and any counter-evidence speaking against the theory, it wouldn't be classified as a scientific theory.
For crying out loud, they are talking about LOCAL floods. And of course every major civilization suffered from local floods. But they did NOT talk about the same time period. For crying out loud, most of those cultures didn't even live at the same time...Mayans, Egyptians, Byzanthines, the Greeks, Chinese, Japanese, Australian Aborigines...all lived at different points in time.
No, you're showing an incredible lack in knowledge about basic history
Of course we can!!! A global event like that would leave behind geological evidence on a massive scale...but there's none of a global flood!
Again, only the bible claims there was an exodus, there's zero archeological evidence
Oh, we provided plenty, you just act like the monkeys below every time your BELIEF is shown to be wrong:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e1e2710c4d6d.jpg[/atsimg]
Yes, and Star Wars is FICTION, just like large parts of the bible. Thanks for pointing that out
Funny how the wiki article about Israel only cites the bible as source for the exodus, not a single reference to archeological findings
And how are the people of today any different - they believe in aliens. Using your own criteria (again) as a measuring stick - YOU FALL SHORT ONCE AGAIN.
Not true, scientists don't claim aliens exist. They say given the size of the universe its likely, but so far, we have ZERO proof of alien life. Only uneducated people, and people who don't care about objective evidence state otherwise. But yeah, those people still exist, and you fall into that category of people who don't need objective evidence to believe something.
Then show me the facts. You have talked and talked but have produced no credible evidence to "demonstrably" (your own word) support your claims. In all of your arguments I have presented legitimate proofs against them, enough to at least query your sources, but you dismiss them without "objective" (your own word) analysis. Your credibility is waning quickly. You are not practicing what you preach (pardon the pun).
It's been linked a dozen times, you've ignored it every single time...so not sure what's the point...but here you go: LINK
All backed up by OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE, evidence we don't have for for aliens or stuff like people surviving in whales
If we didn't have evidence, and any counter-evidence speaking against the theory, it wouldn't be classified as a scientific theory.
So you are saying - that 95% of the ancient civilizations, covering the majority of the planet - who all confirm in their historical stories the event of a great flood - which all happened at the same time
For crying out loud, they are talking about LOCAL floods. And of course every major civilization suffered from local floods. But they did NOT talk about the same time period. For crying out loud, most of those cultures didn't even live at the same time...Mayans, Egyptians, Byzanthines, the Greeks, Chinese, Japanese, Australian Aborigines...all lived at different points in time.
Your credibility is paper thin by now friend.
No, you're showing an incredible lack in knowledge about basic history
Can you prove "demonstrably" and "objectively" that the great flood didn't happen, by the way?
Of course we can!!! A global event like that would leave behind geological evidence on a massive scale...but there's none of a global flood!
Like........ there was no exodus. The jews are still in egypt today being horrifically oppressed. Shouldn't we save them, or at least send them some donations to help their plight ?Or some Hallmark cards ?
Again, only the bible claims there was an exodus, there's zero archeological evidence
Facts which you cannot "demonstrably" or "objectively" provide.
Oh, we provided plenty, you just act like the monkeys below every time your BELIEF is shown to be wrong:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e1e2710c4d6d.jpg[/atsimg]
For your information - Luke Skywalker survived inside the carcass of a Taun-Taun on the planet Hoth for several days. So there.
Yes, and Star Wars is FICTION, just like large parts of the bible. Thanks for pointing that out
Originally posted by 1king2rulethemall
I couldn't be bothered to quote the entire post. But, by your own definition, you're a nonesensist. An idiotist. A foolist.
By definition, anything you don't agree with (understand) makes some one an 'ist', pretty much makes you a stupidist.
Sorry - but I have trouble dealing with morons...
reply to post by MrXYZ
Funny how the wiki article about Israel only cites the bible as source for the exodus,
We weren't talking about scientists. You were referring to ancient civilizations and their beliefs. I was merely stating that the present civilization still has comparative beliefs.
Not true, scientists don't claim aliens exist.
I have provided counter-evidence for everything that you have presented, yet you claim it all to be "psuedo-science". How is that "objective" ?
If we didn't have evidence, and any counter-evidence speaking against the theory, it wouldn't be classified as a scientific theory.
I am not the one refuting the "basic history" of the nation of Israel.
No, you're showing an incredible lack in knowledge about basic history
I have counter-evidence to suggest otherwise - but you will automatically label it and discredit it as "psuedo-science" even before you see it - not very "objective".
Of course we can!!! A global event like that would leave behind geological evidence on a massive scale...but there's none of a global flood!
BY THE WAY.......
YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY QUESTION......
HAVE YOU, MRXYZ, READ THE CHRISTIAN HOLY BIBLE IN ITS ENTIRETY ?
reply to post by BagBing
By definition, anything you don't agree with (understand) makes some one an 'ist', pretty much makes you a stupidist.
But, using your own (flawed) definition - You disagree with GOD. Does that make you a satanist ?
reply to post by 1king2rulethemall
No, didn't ignore it all all. Just know who the real authors are, that's all.
Just as I fail to find any wisdom in posts made my Bible believers and self styled mouth-pieces for what they think is God, but is actually something else altogether. Friend, I ignore nothing. I have been researching the Bibles and the Christian religion for 25 years. People who believe in a book written by men, and changed so many times, I feel sorry for. Check these links, and you may find some wisdom:
The True Authorship of the New Testament
WHO WROTE THE NEW TESTAMENT?
Christ's Coffin Found
The Rapture
Did you totally ignore the whole New Testament - the life of Jesus ?
No, didn't ignore it all all. Just know who the real authors are, that's all.
I cannot find the wisdom in your argument at all.
Just as I fail to find any wisdom in posts made my Bible believers and self styled mouth-pieces for what they think is God, but is actually something else altogether. Friend, I ignore nothing. I have been researching the Bibles and the Christian religion for 25 years. People who believe in a book written by men, and changed so many times, I feel sorry for. Check these links, and you may find some wisdom:
The True Authorship of the New Testament
WHO WROTE THE NEW TESTAMENT?
Christ's Coffin Found
The Rapture
reply to post by 1king2rulethemall
In that case their history isn't backed by facts and they chose to go with a fictional history that's demonstrably wrong...
No, you haven't presented any objective evidence...your pseudo-science isn't based on facts. Like I said, take the Exodus for example. You insist it happened without presenting objective evidence, and no, the bible isn't objective evidence.
No, because as we now know, you clearly don't care about facts
Well, if that pseudo-science crap is all you have, of course I will
Had to at school, so yeah...I read the whole thing, including thew nice genocide and rape sections
That's because it is their only history ! They don't have five different histories that you can pick and choose from - THEY HAVE ONE HISTORY AND IT IS BIBLICAL ! (for crying out loud).
In that case their history isn't backed by facts and they chose to go with a fictional history that's demonstrably wrong...
I have provided counter-evidence for everything that you have presented, yet you claim it all to be "psuedo-science". How is that "objective" ?
No, you haven't presented any objective evidence...your pseudo-science isn't based on facts. Like I said, take the Exodus for example. You insist it happened without presenting objective evidence, and no, the bible isn't objective evidence.
I am not the one refuting the "basic history" of the nation of Israel.
No, because as we now know, you clearly don't care about facts
I have counter-evidence to suggest otherwise - but you will automatically label it and discredit it as "psuedo-science" even before you see it - not very "objective".
Well, if that pseudo-science crap is all you have, of course I will
HAVE YOU, MRXYZ, READ THE CHRISTIAN HOLY BIBLE IN ITS ENTIRETY ?
Had to at school, so yeah...I read the whole thing, including thew nice genocide and rape sections
reply to post by autowrench
No, didn't ignore it all all. Just know who the real authors are, that's all.
roman piso
"Christs coffin found" ? It is a movie made by James cameron, not a serious documentary
here's the link
"The rapture" ? I couldn't find ANY information on who Aristobulus (Roger) Allen is at all, so The credibility of that particular article is extremely transparent to say the least.
I have been a revived Christian since april this year, and I have easily found sound, irrefutable, historical, scientific, mathematic, prophetic, auto-biographical, physical, emotional and spiritual evidence to prove irrevocably that Jesus is the GOD of the bible and HE was put to death for our sins, and rose from that death to offer all of mankind the chance of eternal life.
Friend, I ignore nothing. I have been researching the Bibles and the Christian religion for 25 years.
Simple as that.
reply to post by MrXYZ
Jewish exodus - encyclopedia brittanica
Jewish encyclopedia
Wikipedia - jewish exodus
encyclopedi.com
New World Encyclopedia
All reputable, objective sources would you agree ?
Look, it is obvious to me that we are stuck on a boat and rowing with only one oar. I think it is time for me to get off the boat now, and step back onto dry land.
Let me leave you, if I may, with two things for you to think about.
1.
Has faith in atheism ever broken someones addiction to drugs?
Has faith in atheism ever broken someones addiction to alcohol?
Has faith in atheism ever gotten someone through the death of a loved one?
Has faith in atheism ever gotten someone through the horrific trauma of rape, or murder?or other atrocities / tragedies?
Jesus changes lives. Jesus lives - Jesus loves - Jesus saves. Ask the millions of people who know HIM and walk with HIM every day.
2.
For discussions sake, lets assume that you are married and have three daughters. Tragically, your wife loses her life early - leaving you alone to raise three young children. Your youngest daughter approaches you, and through tear filled eyes looks up at you. In between sobs she asks, " Daddy, is mommy in heaven ?" and you reply, " No, mommy is just plain and utterly dead, sweetheart. There is nothing left of her but dust. Sorry about that."
That would be terrible wouldn't it ?
May I respectfully suggest - now you are much smarter by your own standards - that you re-read the Christian Holy Bible and try to understand exactly what it is saying. Approach it objectively AND subjectively, feverishly searching for the hope that it offers. Then maybe you can avoid such a terrible answer to your hypothetical children.
Till we meet again MrXYZ.
Peace and respect,friend.
In that case their history isn't backed by facts and they chose to go with a fictional history that's demonstrably wrong...
Jewish exodus - encyclopedia brittanica
Jewish encyclopedia
Wikipedia - jewish exodus
encyclopedi.com
New World Encyclopedia
All reputable, objective sources would you agree ?
Look, it is obvious to me that we are stuck on a boat and rowing with only one oar. I think it is time for me to get off the boat now, and step back onto dry land.
Let me leave you, if I may, with two things for you to think about.
1.
Has faith in atheism ever broken someones addiction to drugs?
Has faith in atheism ever broken someones addiction to alcohol?
Has faith in atheism ever gotten someone through the death of a loved one?
Has faith in atheism ever gotten someone through the horrific trauma of rape, or murder?or other atrocities / tragedies?
Jesus changes lives. Jesus lives - Jesus loves - Jesus saves. Ask the millions of people who know HIM and walk with HIM every day.
2.
For discussions sake, lets assume that you are married and have three daughters. Tragically, your wife loses her life early - leaving you alone to raise three young children. Your youngest daughter approaches you, and through tear filled eyes looks up at you. In between sobs she asks, " Daddy, is mommy in heaven ?" and you reply, " No, mommy is just plain and utterly dead, sweetheart. There is nothing left of her but dust. Sorry about that."
That would be terrible wouldn't it ?
May I respectfully suggest - now you are much smarter by your own standards - that you re-read the Christian Holy Bible and try to understand exactly what it is saying. Approach it objectively AND subjectively, feverishly searching for the hope that it offers. Then maybe you can avoid such a terrible answer to your hypothetical children.
Till we meet again MrXYZ.
Peace and respect,friend.
reply to post by BagBing
By definition, anything you don't agree with (understand) makes some one an 'ist', pretty much makes you a stupidist.
Using your own definition.........
1.I periodically don't agree with my wife, and regularly fail to understand her - does that make me a wifeist ?
2. If I am a sadist - does that mean I don't agree with, or understand being sad ?
3. If I am a racist - does that mean that I don't agree with, or understand racing ?
4. If I am a sexist - does that mean that I disagree with and don't understand sex ?
AND SAVE THE BEST TILL LAST...........
5. If I am a scientist - does that mean that I don't agree with, or understand science ?
reply to post by 1king2rulethemall
All your links cite the bible and NOT objective archeological evidence...so they're simply stating what religious Jews believe based on their book...not based on archeological finds that would back up their claims. In short, it's all nonsense until you present archeological evidence!
What does any of that have to do with the evolution of man??? Psychiatry cures addiction to drugs too, so does acupuncture and hypnosns...hell, there's even meds. Of course atheists get over the death of loved ones, and you can get over trauma just fine without religion. I know, because I was pretty much dead twice (as in my heart stopped). Totally got over it
Of course religion can have a positive effect on people, but it doesn't verify the claims of a book that's DEMONSTRABLY wrong.
What would be terrible is to lie to your children! Of course with small children it's difficult sometimes, but that shouldn't make us lie to them. My parents never did, and I turned out just fine
The fact that religion can give comfort doesn't change the fact that large parts of the bible are DEMONSTRABLY WRONG
All your links cite the bible and NOT objective archeological evidence...so they're simply stating what religious Jews believe based on their book...not based on archeological finds that would back up their claims. In short, it's all nonsense until you present archeological evidence!
1.
Has faith in atheism ever broken someones addiction to drugs?
Has faith in atheism ever broken someones addiction to alcohol?
Has faith in atheism ever gotten someone through the death of a loved one?
Has faith in atheism ever gotten someone through the horrific trauma of rape, or murder?or other atrocities / tragedies?
Jesus changes lives. Jesus lives - Jesus loves - Jesus saves. Ask the millions of people who know HIM and walk with HIM every day.
What does any of that have to do with the evolution of man??? Psychiatry cures addiction to drugs too, so does acupuncture and hypnosns...hell, there's even meds. Of course atheists get over the death of loved ones, and you can get over trauma just fine without religion. I know, because I was pretty much dead twice (as in my heart stopped). Totally got over it
Of course religion can have a positive effect on people, but it doesn't verify the claims of a book that's DEMONSTRABLY wrong.
2.
For discussions sake, lets assume that you are married and have three daughters. Tragically, your wife loses her life early - leaving you alone to raise three young children. Your youngest daughter approaches you, and through tear filled eyes looks up at you. In between sobs she asks, " Daddy, is mommy in heaven ?" and you reply, " No, mommy is just plain and utterly dead, sweetheart. There is nothing left of her but dust. Sorry about that."
That would be terrible wouldn't it ?
What would be terrible is to lie to your children! Of course with small children it's difficult sometimes, but that shouldn't make us lie to them. My parents never did, and I turned out just fine
May I respectfully suggest - now you are much smarter by your own standards - that you re-read the Christian Holy Bible and try to understand exactly what it is saying. Approach it objectively AND subjectively, feverishly searching for the hope that it offers. Then maybe you can avoid such a terrible answer to your hypothetical children.
The fact that religion can give comfort doesn't change the fact that large parts of the bible are DEMONSTRABLY WRONG
reply to post by 1littlewolf
Not trying to be contentious but the book is older than 2000 years. The dead sea scrolls have proven that the book of Isaiah is over 1000 years older than the known books of which Isaiah was copied. Cave number four has produced the Isaiah scroll in complete and accurate condition.
To say that the Hebrew and Greek literature is misinformation is actually your own non professional opinion. Those of us that believe the bible is truth do so with the knowledge that it is theology. Being theology is not to say that it has misinformation in it because then we would have had to know that it is bogus. How can you make a statement like that without showing us where the misinformation truly is? I have known men who have dedicated their life in studying the Hebrew and Greek literature and are very well accepted scholars. Both Gentile and Jewish.
Now that is not to say that we all agree on the deity but that is another subject altogether. There is a lot of evidence to doubt Sitchin's work and it is blogged on the internet in full view of anyone who wishes to read it. Simply Google his name and read for yourself. The man was a novelist and by no means a reputable scholar. The Hebrew and Christian bibles have stood the test of time and I believe that it will never be proven to have misinformation.
Not trying to be contentious but the book is older than 2000 years. The dead sea scrolls have proven that the book of Isaiah is over 1000 years older than the known books of which Isaiah was copied. Cave number four has produced the Isaiah scroll in complete and accurate condition.
To say that the Hebrew and Greek literature is misinformation is actually your own non professional opinion. Those of us that believe the bible is truth do so with the knowledge that it is theology. Being theology is not to say that it has misinformation in it because then we would have had to know that it is bogus. How can you make a statement like that without showing us where the misinformation truly is? I have known men who have dedicated their life in studying the Hebrew and Greek literature and are very well accepted scholars. Both Gentile and Jewish.
Now that is not to say that we all agree on the deity but that is another subject altogether. There is a lot of evidence to doubt Sitchin's work and it is blogged on the internet in full view of anyone who wishes to read it. Simply Google his name and read for yourself. The man was a novelist and by no means a reputable scholar. The Hebrew and Christian bibles have stood the test of time and I believe that it will never be proven to have misinformation.
reply to post by MrXYZ
Do not know much about floods either global or local but here is something very interesting. Did you know that in 1953 Edmund Hillary climbed Mt. Everest? Found the following article and found it very interesting --
When they climbed Mt Everest in 1953, Edmund Hillary got up to the 26 000 foot level and he began to find sea shells. Some stuff they found up there were Petrified clams and Sea shells packed together. Millions of them. Interesting thing about these clams, that are even found of top of Mt Everest, the clams are petrified and dead, I believe, and closed. Well you can walk along the beach and pick up a whole train load of sea shells but you hardly ever find a matched pair. And you never find them closed. The only way this could happen is these had to be buried alive. ..... How do you get these on top of Mt Everest? In case you don't know, Mt Everest is a little ways from the beach. Secondly, clams don't climb mountains very good. So what happened to these petrified claims anyway? Some places they are ten feet thick in the world. ..... Well the only way I can think of this to happen is for an awful lot of clams to be buried instantly. I think during the Flood of Noah ..... What do you think?
Now isn't that something? I don't know if these clams flew or crawled or what happened but there they are. Oh! Maybe it was a flood or a great upheaval of the ocean floor. Don't really know do we?
Do not know much about floods either global or local but here is something very interesting. Did you know that in 1953 Edmund Hillary climbed Mt. Everest? Found the following article and found it very interesting --
When they climbed Mt Everest in 1953, Edmund Hillary got up to the 26 000 foot level and he began to find sea shells. Some stuff they found up there were Petrified clams and Sea shells packed together. Millions of them. Interesting thing about these clams, that are even found of top of Mt Everest, the clams are petrified and dead, I believe, and closed. Well you can walk along the beach and pick up a whole train load of sea shells but you hardly ever find a matched pair. And you never find them closed. The only way this could happen is these had to be buried alive. ..... How do you get these on top of Mt Everest? In case you don't know, Mt Everest is a little ways from the beach. Secondly, clams don't climb mountains very good. So what happened to these petrified claims anyway? Some places they are ten feet thick in the world. ..... Well the only way I can think of this to happen is for an awful lot of clams to be buried instantly. I think during the Flood of Noah ..... What do you think?
Now isn't that something? I don't know if these clams flew or crawled or what happened but there they are. Oh! Maybe it was a flood or a great upheaval of the ocean floor. Don't really know do we?
reply to post by MrXYZ
Have been reading your viewpoints and would ask this question from you. Which large portions of which bible is bogus? The reason I ask is that I am interested to learn why some portions of some bibles are true and some portions are not true. We have Hebrew literature and Greek literature and both contain inside and outside literature which is so vast that we could not fathom the space that it could take.
If you are interested in Biblical Archaeology there is a biblical archaeological society which you can subscribe to a monthly magazine. It is edited by Hershal Shanks (Jewish) and contains so much Hebrew historical and archaeological evidence that most people are not even aware of and would be astounded to read. It also contains much Egyptology findings and really is worth the read if that is your interest. A good portion of the magazine spills over into Christian interests also. Have a good day
-- .
Have been reading your viewpoints and would ask this question from you. Which large portions of which bible is bogus? The reason I ask is that I am interested to learn why some portions of some bibles are true and some portions are not true. We have Hebrew literature and Greek literature and both contain inside and outside literature which is so vast that we could not fathom the space that it could take.
If you are interested in Biblical Archaeology there is a biblical archaeological society which you can subscribe to a monthly magazine. It is edited by Hershal Shanks (Jewish) and contains so much Hebrew historical and archaeological evidence that most people are not even aware of and would be astounded to read. It also contains much Egyptology findings and really is worth the read if that is your interest. A good portion of the magazine spills over into Christian interests also. Have a good day
-- .
reply to post by Seede
What do I think? I think your "Noah's flood deposited them there" argument relies on the supposition that Mount Everest has always been as high as it is now and that a rising ocean level is the only means by which sea life could have gotten to such an altitude. I also think it shows that you haven't taken the time to try and research the origins of the mountain, which would have taken you all of sixty seconds, so you're just playing the "I don't know how this happened, so God did it" game.
Who is "we" exactly? You may not know, because you never took the time to find out, but geologists do.
When they climbed Mt Everest in 1953, Edmund Hillary got up to the 26 000 foot level and he began to find sea shells. Some stuff they found up there were Petrified clams and Sea shells packed together. Millions of them. Interesting thing about these clams, that are even found of top of Mt Everest, the clams are petrified and dead, I believe, and closed. Well you can walk along the beach and pick up a whole train load of sea shells but you hardly ever find a matched pair. And you never find them closed. The only way this could happen is these had to be buried alive. ..... How do you get these on top of Mt Everest? In case you don't know, Mt Everest is a little ways from the beach. Secondly, clams don't climb mountains very good. So what happened to these petrified claims anyway? Some places they are ten feet thick in the world. ..... Well the only way I can think of this to happen is for an awful lot of clams to be buried instantly. I think during the Flood of Noah ..... What do you think?
What do I think? I think your "Noah's flood deposited them there" argument relies on the supposition that Mount Everest has always been as high as it is now and that a rising ocean level is the only means by which sea life could have gotten to such an altitude. I also think it shows that you haven't taken the time to try and research the origins of the mountain, which would have taken you all of sixty seconds, so you're just playing the "I don't know how this happened, so God did it" game.
Now isn't that something? I don't know if these clams flew or crawled or what happened but there they are. Oh! Maybe it was a flood or a great upheaval of the ocean floor. Don't really know do we?
Who is "we" exactly? You may not know, because you never took the time to find out, but geologists do.
reply to post by iterationzero
Whoa there Mr. Zero,
No need to play the get mad game. You may be so brilliant as to know just how Mt. Everest came into being but I'm sure the rest of us dummies do not know. Why do the rest of us dummies not know? Simply because we were not there and neither were today's geologists and neither were you. Where does that leave you? Your right back in the theological pot the same as all humans are. You tell the ATS readers in your 60 seconds spiel just where is your proof that the marine fossils which are at over 29,000 feet came as the result of land upheaval.
The National geographic Society claims that the Mountain is being pushed up at about the rate of 1.6 to 3.9 inches per year. At the rate of 4 inches per year it would have taken well over 49,000 years to attain its present height. The problem is not the height it is today but the rate that it took to attain this height. The reason it is a problem is that the marine fossils could have had ample time to escape the sudden destruction at the 4 inches per year rate. This leaves two other possibilities and they are as follows. At the onset it up heaved at a tremendous rate and then settled gradually to the rate of today or it was the result of a flood which is recorded in both the Hebrew literature and outside literature.
So now, you are so brilliant and above reproach, suppose you tell us dummies the rate of upheaval and why the marine life was caught in such a destruction. Geologist admit that they theorize this phenomenon but apparently you also know more than the geologist know. If geologists are entitled to the theological process then why are not Christians entitled to the same? Or is it because you simply hate Christianity?
So as you can understand, it's not a simple matter of what you want it to be but also what it could have been. I did not accuse you in anger because I realize that you have a problem with your attitude towards others. Perhaps if you would cool your temper and rationalize other people's opinions you would also learn to not insult others. By the way I did not write that article but for your information I do theorize that the flood of Noah is the reason for the petrified marine life on Mt. Everest and many other places in the world.
Whoa there Mr. Zero,
No need to play the get mad game. You may be so brilliant as to know just how Mt. Everest came into being but I'm sure the rest of us dummies do not know. Why do the rest of us dummies not know? Simply because we were not there and neither were today's geologists and neither were you. Where does that leave you? Your right back in the theological pot the same as all humans are. You tell the ATS readers in your 60 seconds spiel just where is your proof that the marine fossils which are at over 29,000 feet came as the result of land upheaval.
The National geographic Society claims that the Mountain is being pushed up at about the rate of 1.6 to 3.9 inches per year. At the rate of 4 inches per year it would have taken well over 49,000 years to attain its present height. The problem is not the height it is today but the rate that it took to attain this height. The reason it is a problem is that the marine fossils could have had ample time to escape the sudden destruction at the 4 inches per year rate. This leaves two other possibilities and they are as follows. At the onset it up heaved at a tremendous rate and then settled gradually to the rate of today or it was the result of a flood which is recorded in both the Hebrew literature and outside literature.
So now, you are so brilliant and above reproach, suppose you tell us dummies the rate of upheaval and why the marine life was caught in such a destruction. Geologist admit that they theorize this phenomenon but apparently you also know more than the geologist know. If geologists are entitled to the theological process then why are not Christians entitled to the same? Or is it because you simply hate Christianity?
So as you can understand, it's not a simple matter of what you want it to be but also what it could have been. I did not accuse you in anger because I realize that you have a problem with your attitude towards others. Perhaps if you would cool your temper and rationalize other people's opinions you would also learn to not insult others. By the way I did not write that article but for your information I do theorize that the flood of Noah is the reason for the petrified marine life on Mt. Everest and many other places in the world.
new topics
-
This should be plastered all over the airwaves
Mainstream News: 4 hours ago -
Oh, Good Gosh. “Kremlin Warns Stay Away from Greenland.”
World War Three: 6 hours ago -
Archbisop Vigano Warns of Deep State and Deep Church
New World Order: 6 hours ago
top topics
-
This should be plastered all over the airwaves
Mainstream News: 4 hours ago, 15 flags -
Archbisop Vigano Warns of Deep State and Deep Church
New World Order: 6 hours ago, 10 flags -
Oh, Good Gosh. “Kremlin Warns Stay Away from Greenland.”
World War Three: 6 hours ago, 10 flags -
Fire insurance in LA withdrawn months ago
General Conspiracies: 14 hours ago, 9 flags -
A Flash of Beauty: Bigfoot Revealed ( documentary )
Cryptozoology: 12 hours ago, 7 flags
active topics
-
This should be plastered all over the airwaves
Mainstream News • 32 • : Flyingclaydisk -
Oh, Good Gosh. “Kremlin Warns Stay Away from Greenland.”
World War Three • 19 • : fringeofthefringe -
Archbisop Vigano Warns of Deep State and Deep Church
New World Order • 4 • : marg6043 -
Dr. Demento
Music • 14 • : AlroyFarms -
Los Angeles brush fires latest: 2 blazes threaten structures, prompt evacuations
Mainstream News • 331 • : BeyondKnowledge3 -
Fire insurance in LA withdrawn months ago
General Conspiracies • 34 • : CriticalStinker -
The Truth about Migrant Crime in Britain.
Social Issues and Civil Unrest • 46 • : gortex -
Nigel Farage's New Year Message.
Politicians & People • 25 • : gortex -
Elon Musk Calls for Tommy Robinson to be Freed - and Takes a Dig at Starmer
Politicians & People • 19 • : gortex -
To become president, Zelensky had to learn Ukrainian
Political Conspiracies • 38 • : Imhere