Now what a story this is! ..what a doctor said infront of an abortion

Originally posted by banishedfromthisarea

Originally posted by bkaust
Go push your agenda elsewhere. This makes me so mad. You have NO idea, seriously. All respect lost for you Heineken.

If you have a position, state it.

Pro Choice. I can completely understand WHY some women choose the option to abort. I used to think I could get one. As i've gotten older, personally, I couldnt, but it's not up to me to push what I think onto another woman who is not in the same place mentally as me. A lot of people just seem to Assume abortion is for promiscuous women and 'accidental' babies. What about women who have been sexually abused? 'adopt?' Not to get sexist, but men have NO idea how hard MENTALLY as well as physically it is to birth a baby, let alone how intrusive the 9 months lead up and 6 weeks after birth can be. It was the hardest thing i've ever done and 15 months later i'm only now moing on from how wrong the birth of my child went, I won't go into detail but if a women that had been raped or repeated sexual abuse had my birth - they could be more than completely scarred by this. I think people shouldn't think of abortion as a 'quick fix' thats for sure, but it some instances it can be necessary. I'm sorry, its quite an emotional topic for me so this is probably as clear as I can get on 5hrs sleep and my daughter crawling over me!

More than anything I just take offence to posts like heinekens because it seemed like he was just simply pushing HIS belief on others, with no personal reason as to why. Just a 'hey guys abortions bad, you do it, you're a murderer' For the women that TRULY need them, its not an easy choice.

reply to post by Annee

most doctors/scientists do not agree with you.

I don't care what individuals agrees with me...biology agrees with me.

Until you disprove the biological definition of the life cycle...you can not claim that life does not start at conception.

You can inject arbitrary philosophy and start talking about when life is "sentient"...but that is just a justification for your beliefs.

People are uncomfortable with saying that they support killing innocent humans...so they must justify it in some way. Trying to redefine when "life" begins is how abortionist attempt to justify their beliefs.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

It is damn scary that you are in the medical profession. ( I do believe you told me you were in another thread)

No one should ever want to "actively kill" something...that is just twisted.

So do you think people should not have a right to voluntary euthanasia?

Anyway, I cant understand why you are not OK with active killing, but OK with passive killing (not providing help). Its omission bias logical fallacy. Why should it matter if an act is passive/active, it if has the same consequences? Morality is determined by consequences, not by level of pasivity.

Let's deal with reality...and not go off into fantasy worlds...ok?

Its an important hypothetical question. You refuse to answer it, because it will show you have no basis for why life should be valuable and have rights without containing mind. Because its human mind which gives human life value. You are your mind. And life without mind (human or nonhuman) has no value, or certainly has less value than human person (human life with mind).
What about aliens? Should we kill intelligent aliens just because they are not human?

reply to post by puzzlesphere

You are being ludicrous with those questions, and deliberately misinterpreting my experience.

No, I'm trying to point out that there are not "accidents"...that again is just an excuse. If you have sex...it may end up in pregnancy regardless of what precautions you put in place. There is no "accidents"...there is consequences to your actions.

I don't believe in killing a human as taking responsibility of your actions. If so...everyone would just kill people that they owe money to...and say "See...I took responsibility for my actions and resolved the issue".

I suppose you believe in no sex before marriage, and never had sex before marriage yourself?

No and no...but thanks for making more assumptions.

But I knew in advanced that if my girlfriend did get pregnant (and there were some close calls) that we would take responsibility for our actions, have the baby and raise it the best we could. And yes, we did discuss this before we had sex....shocking huh?

One final time... a foetus in not a human life, by any currently accepted definition. You are welcome to think otherwise, but the literature and general belief and laws in most societies suggest the majority think contrary to your opinion.

Do you need to see the biology links again...because an the entire institution of LIFE sciences disagree with you.

PLEASE...go ask a biologist when "LIFE" begins....I guarantee you he won't say "When brain waves are present". That is societies and the medical industries excuse to legalize abortion...and you seem to have bought it.

I don't care what the "law" says...the "law" is not science...an abortion doctors opinion is not "science"...biology is science. Biology clearly states when life begins...at conception.

Like I said...making something legal doesn't make it "right".


Answer one question directly without dodging it...do you deny that biological life begins at conception?

I do not care if people believe life begins at conception or not. I do not care if people think Abortion is murder. Fact is... it is my pregnancy, my body, my baby, my life so STFU and mind your own business. Unless you (the pro lifer) are going to financially and emotionally support the mother and the baby, then you have absolutely no say in the decision she makes. End of story.

reply to post by Annee

I choose abortion over "pot luck" that a baby would get a good home and live a happy life.

What a silly argument.

I choose to kill my baby instead of it having the possibility of not having a perfect life.

Maybe poor people should just kill their all their kids (out of womb), because their life probably isn't going to be as good as rich kids.

reply to post by BigDogLittleDog

An animal is not sentient, an animal does not comprehend that it is alive, therefore killing an animal for survival is not a realistic comparison.

Fetus is not sentient and does not comprehend it is alive, so its a realistic comparison. Higher animals are actually more sentient than fetuses.

OP.. Great story, you really hit all the hateful, murderess, women right between the eyes with it!! I love the response "its my body" and all the other feminist crap that these murdering females hide behind. SICK, but most people think there is nothing wrong with it, just goes to show how disturbed society is.

Originally posted by MrWendal
I do not care if people believe life begins at conception or not. I do not care if people think Abortion is murder. Fact is... it is my pregnancy, my body, my baby, my life so STFU and mind your own business. Unless you (the pro lifer) are going to financially and emotionally support the mother and the baby, then you have absolutely no say in the decision she makes. End of story.

LOL. What a load of crap, just because its "your body" does not make it OK. You will have to answer to the maker and i would not want to be you.

Originally posted by discharged77
OP.. Great story, you really hit all the hateful, murderess, women right between the eyes with it!! I love the response "its my body" and all the other feminist crap that these murdering females hide behind. SICK, but most people think there is nothing wrong with it, just goes to show how disturbed society is.

Oh god. Let me grab you a stepping stool so you can hop off your high horse..
"hateful"?
How pathetic.

reply to post by puzzlesphere

On going back and searching purely in biology collections, I must say that there really doesn't seem to be much of an opinion on the matter from the biologist’s standpoint. In my quick search I found nothing referring to the definition of human life, or to abortion.

You are trying to seperate "human" life from all other life???

We are not special, we are just animals.

We don't kill our own, we view that as a society as being wrong....agreed?

Then all that is left is to determine when life begins...since we are animals...why would you need an alternate definition for "life" for humans than all other animals?

Biology clearly defines this as life begins at conception...check any basic biology book.


But this doesn't work well with wanting to justify abortion...because this forces people to admit that they are ok with killing babies for any and all reasons...including very selfish reasons of "It would ruin my life". So that is why medical professionals (who directly financially benefit from abortion) have tried to redefine the point at where life begins.

it's all justification...for monetary purposes on the medical professionals part...and so people who have abortions or support abortions don't feel like they are monsters who kill babies. If they can in their head, I doubt in their heart, can say "I didn't kill a baby...it was just a clump of cells"...then they can lie to themselves that they didn't just commit a horrible act.

Originally posted by discharged77

Originally posted by MrWendal
I do not care if people believe life begins at conception or not. I do not care if people think Abortion is murder. Fact is... it is my pregnancy, my body, my baby, my life so STFU and mind your own business. Unless you (the pro lifer) are going to financially and emotionally support the mother and the baby, then you have absolutely no say in the decision she makes. End of story.

LOL. What a load of crap, just because its "your body" does not make it OK. You will have to answer to the maker and i would not want to be you.

Oh lets take a step back here..
Would you care to explain to me who "the maker" is?
If your going to hit me with some religious opinion don't bother, because it is just that..an opinion

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by BigDogLittleDog

 

An animal is not sentient, an animal does not comprehend that it is alive, therefore killing an animal for survival is not a realistic comparison.

Fetus is not sentient and does not comprehend it is alive, so its a realistic comparison. Higher animals are actually more sentient than fetuses.

How the Hell do you know that?? What a load of crap, what hard science do you have to back that up? Some ultra-liberal-feminist garbage science, manufactured by some hate filled lesbians that hate families im sure. Abortion destroys women, but some of you are so brain washed that you cant see it, sad.

reply to post by Maslo

So do you think people should not have a right to voluntary euthanasia?

Anyway, I cant understand why you are not OK with active killing, but OK with passive killing (not providing help). Its omission bias logical fallacy. Why should it matter if an act is passive/active, it if has the same consequences? Morality is determined by consequences, not by level of pasivity.

If people want to kill themselves...more power to them.

I don't support doctors being able to kill someone...that is not their job IMO.

I never said I am ok with "passive killing"...I don't think treatment should ever be discontinued until brain, heart, and lung fuction can not be resusitated after exhaustive attempts.

Its an important hypothetical question.

No, it's not...it may be for you because you are dealing in philosophy. But I don't care about philosohpy in this discussion. Hey...What if consciousness never dies...what if we prove that it exists forever outside the body....should we than legalize murder??? See how silly this becomes???

Biology...prove that wrong and then you can say abortion is ok.

Originally posted by discharged77

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by BigDogLittleDog

 

An animal is not sentient, an animal does not comprehend that it is alive, therefore killing an animal for survival is not a realistic comparison.

Fetus is not sentient and does not comprehend it is alive, so its a realistic comparison. Higher animals are actually more sentient than fetuses.

How the Hell do you know that?? What a load of crap, what hard science do you have to back that up? Some ultra-liberal-feminist garbage science, manufactured by some hate filled lesbians that hate families im sure. Abortion destroys women, but some of you are so brain washed that you cant see it, sad.

And I take it you are one of the many ignorant, blind people that believe that there is a soul at the moment of conception, when it is merely a clump of cells and can biologically be defined as a parasite?
Is there evidence to support that?

Originally posted by MrWendal
I do not care if people believe life begins at conception or not. I do not care if people think Abortion is murder. Fact is... it is my pregnancy, my body, my baby, my life so STFU and mind your own business. Unless you (the pro lifer) are going to financially and emotionally support the mother and the baby, then you have absolutely no say in the decision she makes. End of story.

As a society, we have the right to voice our opinion on what type of people we believe should and should not be part of our society.

That is why Murder is illegal and murderers are put in prison...we don't think they are fit to be part of society.

I don't believe any woman that has an abortion or any doctor that performs an abortion are fit to be part of our society.

Yes, I am in the minority...most people are fine with women killing their babies...but that doesn't mean my voice can be silenced.

The baby is not part of your body...do what you want to your body...don't kill another human life to make your life easier...that is selfish.

reply to post by Maslo

Fetus is not sentient and does not comprehend it is alive, so its a realistic comparison. Higher animals are actually more sentient than fetuses.

You have no proof of this. The person who claimed animals aren't sentinet does not have proof either.

You are making logical leaps using assumptions...that is not science.

Anything that would inconvenience the modern American women is simply thrown away, babies, husbands, etc.. I can not believe that a women would use "it would ruin my life" as an excuse to have an abortion. Just goes to show that some people can not take responsibility for their actions, where in the hell is this sick society going too next? Pretty soon mothers will be wanting to kill their 1-2 Y/O children because there an inconvenience. The worst part about it is that there would be men that would support their right to do it.

reply to post by ka119


I love how you sit in wait for someone to bring up a religous argument and then you jump on it.

Straight out of the abortionist handbook...try to move it away from a scientific discussion and move it to a anti-religous argument.

reply to post by discharged77


How can fetus be sentient without the brain cortex?