Denver Occupy... Group Just Elected Their First Leader

Originally posted by XPLodER

over 2 thousand countries.

Say WHAT?

2000 COUNTRIES?

How damn many planets has this mass insanity spread to? Allowing for an average of 200 countries per planet, that's 10 planets. Earth is a bit sub-standard in that respect, only having about 195 countries or so, depending on what day it is.

#Occupy the UNIVERSE!

Originally posted by XPLodER

1. a single occupy has grown to a world wide phenomonon

The 1917 flu pandemic was a world wide phenomena as well. That didn't necessarily make it a good thing...

2. people are debating in public the actions of wall street and govenments

SSDD. That's been the case for each of the 50 years or so I've walked the Earth. So far, not much done about it, though.

3. people are empowering themselves with action instead of feeling helpless in the face of big corps

There's action, and there's ACTION. Milling around in a herd and screaming at buildings is not the sort of "action" that will produce results.

4. people are deciding what the real problems are instead of fighting left right paradimes

See #2 above. People have been "deciding what the 'real' problems are" for at least the last 50 years, and I expect a lot longer than that. Still nothing gets done, because in the public at large, just as in OWS, no large enough group can all decide on the SAME problem to bring it to a focus.

5. the protestors have shown that people will not take criminal acts without prosicution.

I'll give you that one. Even I have seen the cops hauling unruly protestors off in flexicuffs. Seems to me an odd way to prove that the People won't tolerate criminal activity - you know, by being criminal and getting yourself arrested. I guess it works, though, as a practical demonstration.

6. by standing together the people are showing who holds the real power in sociity

Uh... yeah.... right... so, ummm... what are they going to DO with this alleged "power"? Perhaps more importantly, WHEN are they going to get around to doing it? Oh - PLEASE stop insinuating that OWS somehow speaks for "the People". It does not. If it did, there would be a fairly substantial portion at least of the People involved in it, rather than a microcosm of really vocal, really pissed off malcontents.

7. when and only when there is a comunity consensus will there be a list of demands.

This was perhaps the most amusing "point" in the list. A family of 4 can't even operate on consensus, especially if there are teenagers involved. How in the hell does a BIGGER group than that expect to reach a consensus, much less take action on that?

one idea whos time has come , can be stopped by no man

Why would anyone even try to stop it? Wouldn't it have to start first, before there was any need to attempt to stop it?

reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II


Then what is this?

The Declaration Of The General Assembly For The Occupation Of Wall Street!

As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!

*These grievances are not all-inclusive.

Adopted, voted on and passed September 29, 2011!
-------------

Our demands are crystal clear as they are spelled out quite clearly. Care to try again?

No message my arse!

Originally posted by oneness86
she will probably be assassinated sad to say

True, I fear for this bitch's safety.

Should have gone with a cat -- nine lives!

reply to post by relpobre000


There is absolute direction.
Do you understand how ineffective the lack of a movement is? This movement is entirely effective.
Actually 100 percent effective. It has maintained a news presence and opened a lot of peoples eyes. People are seeing a police state in action. They are starting to understand how these banks are screwing over Americans. They are learning about shady loaning. They are learning why career politicians are bad for this government. The are learning how a real protest should work, that you don't have to be cordoned off to the third step of some back street government building by permit only. You can occupy wherever you want to get your message out.

They are learning about the giant conflict of interest between big business and government.
They are watching this movement take off and also give rise to other types of occupy movements at grassroots/local levels that address other important problems. New york is the only Occupy protest still going on about Wall Street the majority of them have switched to the bigger problems in government. This is really effective. This is the real deal. This the face and start of the movement Americans have been waiting for. We are just waiting for the rest of you guys to catch up.

reply to post by XPLodER


I have a lot of pictures from our local Occupy of random people stopping to drop off food and money. Several times a day.

reply to post by relpobre000


Oh come on. We come here to deny ignorance. A movement this big can't be pinned with the actions of so called members. 99.9 percent of the group wouldn't support these things so they aren't representative. That kind of stuff happens with every movement. Actually every group of people.. ever. There is a story of a tea party member trying to kill a guy with kids in his car by ramming him while driving and again while parked, just for a having an Obama bumper sticker. I'm not stupid enough to think that guy represents the entire tea party. Stuff happens.

Also that video you posted is obviously a guy joking.

A leader of what. Seriously, what is he a leader of? Does he still need consensus of the people to make any decision or is he their puppet...... and so OWS decends into what i'ts suppossedly fighting.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
Oh come on. We come here to deny ignorance. A movement this big can't be pinned with the actions of so called members.

You're correct of course. Why should a movement be held accountable for the actions of its adherents? It is wonderfully convenient that when something bad happens people can claim it was just a bad apple. I can't think of a more apt verb than 'cherry-pick'.

I've addressed the claim about the movement 'creating awareness'. It's a cop out to rationalize the fact that nothing is happening. Large semi-organized groups are forming to hold signs and yell in public places about 10,000 different things. There's been no practical change and even less practical suggestion.

To those that think they can do whatever it is they're trying to do without leaders or a plan: Your naiveté is adorable.I think it's wonderful that people want to solve the all of the world's problems but a great deal of these people don't seem to live in the real world.

reply to post by relpobre000


We could be held accountable for those nefarious entities yes, but those elements who are committing rapes, assaults and thefts do not speak for nor represent this group as we have clearly condemned the actions of the few.

BTW, You are The 99%!

reply to post by relpobre000


Not 10,000. Just a handful of things that are consistent with a message. All pretty much in the same order.
And I meant "members." When you find me a bunch of actual protesters doing something wrong, and OWS backing them then I will agree. Until then you are embracing ignorance and doing so intentionally because I know you aren't that dumb. It is the same agenda of so many ATSers.

What people do in their life and on their time has nothing to do with the protests. There are members of the boys scouts and church that molest children.. There were members of the Tea Party that were racist and criminals that attempted murder for political reasons. You and I both know that they don't represent the whole and that the groups don't approve of their actions. I can handle people arguing because they disagree with a movement, but I loathe people trying to mislead and not being fair.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


You're right. I am unjustly making broad generalizations (when I have called out others for doing the same thing). I know it's a little strange to change my tune in mid-stream but I am, very simply, wrong.

I feel that my other grievances with the movement are justified and (on other threads) much better articulated. I've repeated myself so much about the topic that I let myself get emotional and let logic fall by the wayside.

I disagree with the movement wholeheartedly--both its methods and its goals. But arguing about it on the internet isn't accomplishing anything either. If there's one thing that we CAN agree on it's that we have the freedom to disagree, and that's okay.

reply to post by relpobre000


State what you are against and we will work towards including your requests so that we can truly and better represent the 99%! A door is being opened for you.

Before you answer the q ask yourself the following :

How has your life benefited from the policies over the last 25 years? Has your income decreased? If you lost your job today could you get another?

Originally posted by relpobre000
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

You're right. I am unjustly making broad generalizations (when I have called out others for doing the same thing). I know it's a little strange to change my tune in mid-stream but I am, very simply, wrong.

Wish more people on this page were capable of doing that. You have my respect.

If you had a chance to read any of my posts on the group you would see that I agree there are problems with the group, but for the most part it is good and on track. I have tried to call for more libertarians (as myself) and conservatives to show up to these bi partisan protests to give an equal showing and help direct it and educate. I mean a lot conservatives would rather hate than show up to a place (where they are welcome) and help prevent it from being hijacked by the radicals showing up. If liberals had known what the tea party was before beck and palin and fox news hijacked it.. they probably would have supported it.

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
reply to post by gimme_some_truth

 

If this is the sort of publicity they're going after, to look like total idiots with no clue as to what they are doing, then 'Yes', it did work.

How about saying something constructive? Is that so hard? It is easy to criticize from your obviously biased stance on OWS, but is it so hard to come up with solutions? What do you think they should do?

I will venture a guess that you, along with many others, could care less what the occupiers say or do because you are part of the problem. You will stand by and watch your country be torn apart by corporations and special interest groups and not lift a finger to stop it. Then you will criticize any movement to take back control without offering any constructive criticism that could lead to a more peaceful and productive movement.

A lot of people think they are "Smarter" than the 99% because they support the status quo. I am here to tell you that common people have more intelligence than YOU give them credit for. They are fed up with their leadership and are attempting to do something about it. Their methods may be flawed, but their purpose is not. Say what you will about the people at OWS, but their message is easy to understand if you have ears.

There are so many things wrong that there could not be one concise singular focus other than a total removal of the corruption at every level. That might include a lot of people who spend their entire day looking for bad press to pass off as "The Norm" for protesters. I have no attachment to the occupy movement other than to say I agree our government is corrupt at every level and corporations, banks and the cia are out of control and need to be neutered.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II

 

Then what is this?

The Declaration Of The General Assembly For The Occupation Of Wall Street!

.....

No message my arse!

edit on 9-11-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)

That gives all appearances of being "The Declaration Of The General Assembly For The Occupation Of Wall Street".

This thread is about Occupy Denver. As you yourself are so fond of pointing out, NO ONE ELSE is authorized to speak for them.

Except, evidently, Shelby, who has been democratically elected their spokesman.

Speak, Shelby! Speak, girl!

ARF!

Good girl! Here's a treat!

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II

 

i think this is cool,
goes to show that corperations have no soul, no blood ect
the fact that a dog is more reliable than most politicians

well that is undeniable

so i love this and am smiling at the meeting of minds,

this is beautiful
xploder

I agree. But, protesting will get you nowhere. Am I not allowed to run my business the way I want ? People need to understand that corporations are not bound by government. Sure, they influence it big time. Protesting will not change it. They will just take they're money elsewhere. Greed rules most people. I don't have all the answers, but my suggestion is, we work to take over corporations, start our own business's, clean up corrupt government and work together ...

If you are used to making 600,000 a year out of your business. Hard times hit, the following year you make 300,000. What do you do ? Most of us would be happy with that amount of money. Business owners are not. They will lay off and cut back to get back to 600,000. I work for such a place that does it. Most do it. There in lye's the problem ....

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II

 

I did say it was a dumb stunt. So, we are in agreement as far as that goes.

Some groups, seem to not realize the difference between good publicity and bad publicity. This is going to come across as a joke at best.... in the eyes of many.


But as I said... It is a publicity stunt and political statement.

They wanted publicity and they got it. So, good bad or otherwise. It worked.

edit on 8-11-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)

the problem is the old politician way of doing politics : first to choose a leader !! a alfa gorilla with a big populist mouth to lead the group ... without a leader they are nothing because they don't know anything by themselves, they need a daddy to function .....

the problem is here : we do NOT want leaders, the people is the leader and votes for what has to be voted for !!!
No leaders, stop leaders !! that is the danger : leaders tend to become dangerous and decide for the people !
Hitler, Stalin, Mao, GWB, etc etc ...
We do not need leaders, just some spokesman, spokesperson ....

asking for a leader is just asking for someone they will and can manipulate afterwards, is reducing the power of the people into one person they will maybe maybe listen to ... it's acting like a pater familias deciding for the kids and for everything, we do not have to choose someone as our leader for them, not for us also, they just have to start choosing themselves for the people in general, legitimation by the people !!!

The fact they did vote for that dog is just a good vibe sneer to the powers in place thinking they still can manipulate the people and ask for legitimation !!!
we do not have to legitimate us, we are the people !!!! G-d damned !!!

reply to post by nenothtu


The difference with Shelby.. unlike most democratically chosen leaders... is Shelby can "speak" without lying.

Good dog indeed

Originally posted by Resinveins
reply to post by nenothtu

 

The difference with Shelby.. unlike most democratically chosen leaders... is Shelby can "speak" without lying.

Good dog indeed

once they are choosen, those leaders play their own game, their own agenda !! you cannot vote them out hé, can you ?
you can vote them in but not out !!! that is not a real democracy then !!
we do not need leaders any more, finished !!! we need people that are just EXECUTING the decisions we as people have been voting for : the EXECUTIV power.
But we as people decide and vote for everything on each level !!!