Unprovoked Police Brutality…Occupy Oakland? (Video)

I’m really trying to be reasonable and understand the mindset of OWS supporters and participants. I support the right to peacefully protest. However, I have yet to see the police break up a "peaceful" protest. Many at OWS can’t wrap their head around why the police shoot tear gas and rubber bullets at OWS protesters on occasion. Please check out this video and share your thoughts so those of us who are confused about this issue can be enlightened.



I have a few questions for you OWS supporters. I sure would like some honest responses to my questions below. I’ll give you my take first…..Based on this video, I believe that anyone who remained in the vicinity of this event and was shot with a rubber bullet and hauled off to jail got what they deserved. When you see people lighting stuff on fire, risking damage to people and property, throwing things at the police and creating basic civil unrest you know damn well the police are going to respond in force. The funniest part was the couple at the end complaining that their right to “peacefully protest” was violated!! Peacefully?? Seriously??

My questions are:

1) Why were trash cans lit on fire during a peaceful protest?
2) Does vandalism fall under the “peaceful protest” umbrella?
3) Why were the self-proclaimed “innocent” protesters throwing things at the police?
4) If you were at a “peaceful protest” and instigators showed up to start trouble would you leave or would you stay there in solidarity with those instigators and face the consequences of their actions?
5) Why were people wearing things over their faces? Was it so they wouldn’t be seen breaking the law on camera? Or was it because they knew their actions would elicit the use of tear gas?
6) Based on what you saw in this video, do you think the police were provoked?

And finally….

7) Do any of you see why OWS is getting a bad rap or do you want to stick with the whole “police state” argument? Be honest, folks!

reply to post by seabag


The guy with the violin at the end of the video answered you :

"Prefiero morir de pie que vivir de rodillas". (Spanish).

Translation :

"I'D RATHER DIE ON MY FEET THAN LIVE ON MY KNEES".

reply to post by Trueman


Who is on their knees? Me?

So you won't help me understand OWS? This isn’t a RANT. I mean, the questions are pretty straight forward. I read posts every day claiming the police are unfairly provoking violence. I don’t see it! I want someone to watch this video and explain to me how the violence was unprovoked.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Trueman

 

I read posts every day claiming the police are unfairly provoking violence. I don’t see it!

reply to post by FugitiveSoul


Seems to me everyone who supports OWS here at ATS can’t defend their rants and claims of police brutality….especially after watching the video I posted. Something always leads to the police crack down, though a lot of the videos don't show the whole story. That's called "editing" and propaganda!

I bet if someone threw stuff at any of you (anybody reading this) or lit trash cans on fire in your front yard you wouldn’t feel unjustified in using force. As a matter of fact, I bet you’d inflict more damage than rubber bullets cause. But if the Police do it, the people who put their lives on the line daily, then you have a problem?

Face it, OWS wants violence. They are baiting the police into conflicts so they can point fingers; they want this and the police are obliging.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Trueman

 

Who is on their knees? Me?

So you won't help me understand OWS? This isn’t a RANT. I mean, the questions are pretty straight forward. I read posts every day claiming the police are unfairly provoking violence. I don’t see it! I want someone to watch this video and explain to me how the violence was unprovoked.

You will continue not to see it . Why ? Simple .


They need pictures and videos and headlines reading "police brutality" to gain any public support

You see OWS is so disorganized so lost in its own movement , that reason and logic in there arguments is too much work.

Its easier to instigate the police to react , so they can capture video/pictures and slap headlines

"OMG Police Brutality"

Its the ony way to get public support and sympathy.

"I have no gas , please don't gas me " lol

its like going up to a lion and saying don't eat me im a human being with feelings. Not sure why im in your den though .


OWS is fading my support because of there mixed messeges , and lack or organization amongest the protesters, and the allowing watching of violent acts take place yet do nothing about it but cheer it on in many cases.

Yea i get paid 2500 a month to talk against the OWS hear me roar lol

reply to post by seabag


1) Why were trash cans lit on fire during a peaceful protest?

Is a burning trash can violent in any way?

2) Does vandalism fall under the “peaceful protest” umbrella?

No.

3) Why were the self-proclaimed “innocent” protesters throwing things at the police?

Which one of the people throwing things at Police proclaimed themselves as "innocent"?

4) If you were at a “peaceful protest” and instigators showed up to start trouble would you leave or would you stay there in solidarity with those instigators and face the consequences of their actions?

I have a feeling most people would stay, judging by the amount of people that stayed during the G20. The problem with leaving for these people, is that an agency could shut down any protest by merely adding some provocateurs.


5) Why were people wearing things over their faces? Was it so they wouldn’t be seen breaking the law on camera? Or was it because they knew their actions would elicit the use of tear gas?

Could be hired people by Government agencies or Police provocateurs. There is a precedent already set, being that this has happened in many protests throughout the Western world. Perhaps they are wearing masks because they don't want to be identified...

6) Based on what you saw in this video, do you think the police were provoked?

Were the protesters provoked? The Police lines aren't exactly the most friendly exchange of communication.

reply to post by seabag

I bet if someone threw stuff at any of you (anybody reading this) or lit trash cans on fire in your front yard you wouldn’t feel unjustified in using force. As a matter of fact, I bet you’d inflict more damage than rubber bullets cause.

But if the Police do it, the people who put their lives on the line daily, then you have a problem?

And if the provocateurs are the Police themselves? That means they set the trash can on fire just to use force....

reply to post by yourboycal2


Ok...so you believe OWS instigated the violence in this video? So do I. I want someone to defend OWS after seeing the vid. You see, they often edit the video to only show the police reaction and then use it as propaganda.

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by seabag

 

1) Why were trash cans lit on fire during a peaceful protest?

Is a burning trash can violent in any way?

2) Does vandalism fall under the “peaceful protest” umbrella?

No.

3) Why were the self-proclaimed “innocent” protesters throwing things at the police?

Which one of the people throwing things at Police proclaimed themselves as "innocent"?

4) If you were at a “peaceful protest” and instigators showed up to start trouble would you leave or would you stay there in solidarity with those instigators and face the consequences of their actions?

I have a feeling most people would stay, judging by the amount of people that stayed during the G20. The problem with leaving for these people, is that an agency could shut down any protest by merely adding some provocateurs.


5) Why were people wearing things over their faces? Was it so they wouldn’t be seen breaking the law on camera? Or was it because they knew their actions would elicit the use of tear gas?

Could be hired people by Government agencies or Police provocateurs. There is a precedent already set, being that this has happened in many protests throughout the Western world. Perhaps they are wearing masks because they don't want to be identified...

6) Based on what you saw in this video, do you think the police were provoked?

Were the protesters provoked? The Police lines aren't exactly the most friendly exchange of communication.

Thanks for answering my questions. Bare with me. I can't do the nice quotes because I'm on my phone. 


1) Burning a trash cans is civil disobedience..an arrest-able offense in every state.  

2) Then why did they vandalize someones property (trash can)?

3).     Everyone on ATS claim OWS are innocent protesters. The video clearly shows otherwise, right?

4).      So if you stayed you'd expect to encounter the police, right?


5) Could be! But it's more likely what I said. 

6)      They aren't there to share kind words, they're there to stop civil disobedience. In fact, when you see police in riot gear you know what's coming, right?

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by seabag

I bet if someone threw stuff at any of you (anybody reading this) or lit trash cans on fire in your front yard you wouldn’t feel unjustified in using force. As a matter of fact, I bet you’d inflict more damage than rubber bullets cause.

But if the Police do it, the people who put their lives on the line daily, then you have a problem?

 

And if the provocateurs are the Police themselves? That means they set the trash can on fire just to use force....

I've seen video of police in plain clothes at OWS. Do you have video of police infiltrating OWS in plain clothes inciting violence? Please share.

I've been able to talk to two of the Oakland protesters. From what they tell me it's one group that keeps doing the vandalism, fire starting and throwing things at the police. They claim this group isn't part of the protest, that they come in, faces already covered, do their damage get a response from the police and fast foot it out of there.

Originally posted by seabag

1) Why were trash cans lit on fire during a peaceful protest?

To keep warm?? I don't know. If it's an arrestable offense then those setting the fire should have been arrested, not tear gas, pepper spray, and shoot the rest of the protesters with rubber bullets.

2) Does vandalism fall under the “peaceful protest” umbrella?

No, I don't believe it does.

3) Why were the self-proclaimed “innocent” protesters throwing things at the police?

Read my opening paragraph.

4) If you were at a “peaceful protest” and instigators showed up to start trouble would you leave or would you stay there in solidarity with those instigators and face the consequences of their actions?

No, I'd drag them kicking and screaming to the police barricade and tell the cops these are the instigators.

5) Why were people wearing things over their faces? Was it so they wouldn’t be seen breaking the law on camera? Or was it because they knew their actions would elicit the use of tear gas?

Why are the cops covering their faces, badges, and nameplates? So they won't be seen breaking the law?

6) Based on what you saw in this video, do you think the police were provoked?

Of course they were provoked. However, I've seen ample incidents where they weren't provoked.

7) Do any of you see why OWS is getting a bad rap or do you want to stick with the whole “police state” argument? Be honest, folks!

I don't know about a bad rap. I personally feel they're protesting in the wrong spot. Every occupy protest in this country needs to be in D.C.. And yes, I will continue to believe the police state argument.

Originally posted by Simon_Boudreaux
I've been able to talk to two of the Oakland protesters. From what they tell me it's one group that keeps doing the vandalism, fire starting and throwing things at the police. They claim this group isn't part of the protest, that they come in, faces already covered, do their damage get a response from the police and fast foot it out of there.

Can I ask an honest question?

It appears to me that every bad thing or incident that happens regarding OWS seem to be explained as always being somebody else at fault. Am I the only one who is noticing this argument? It's always a "Bad Apple" agitator, or right wing police plant infiltrators or the result of an isolated incident.

I don't know about a bad rap. I personally feel they're protesting in the wrong spot. Every occupy protest in this country needs to be in D.C.. And yes, I will continue to believe the police state argument.

I agree this should be taken to Washington DC but if this was truly a police state as many here are trying to claim then the protesters would have either all been hauled off to camps or shot on the spot for threatening the state...

Originally posted by seabag

I've seen video of police in plain clothes at OWS. Do you have video of police infiltrating OWS in plain clothes inciting violence? Please share.

Nice trick question. The cops never advertise they're cops when they're provocateurs. That's why they cover their faces. It's usually protesters with a good eye or ear that catches them at their act. I saw one live feed where there was a protester on a bike that kept going up to the barricade and talking to the cops. Even saw a few cops talk back to him. Other protesters went up to the barricade to talk to the cops and the cops started slapping the barricade with their sticks yelling for them to get back. The crowd started yelling the guy on the bike was a provocateur and he quickly pedaled out of there. If the guy doing the live feed was recording as well( not sure if live feeds record also) then I'm sure the video is out there somewhere. I'll do a little bit of searching and see if I can find it.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Can I ask an honest question?

It appears to me that every bad thing or incident that happens regarding OWS seem to be explained as always being somebody else at fault. Am I the only one who is noticing this argument? It's always a "Bad Apple" agitator, or right wing police plant infiltrators or the result of an isolated incident.

That's why I said it was what I was told. I don't take it as gospel. I have no doubts there are some bad apples in the protests. I have watched a lot of the live feeds and seen the protesters call out people for being instigators. I think the protesters out there for the right reasons need to start helping the cops weed the troublemakers out.

I agree this should be taken to Washington DC but if this was truly a police state as many here are trying to claim then the protesters would have either all been hauled off to camps or shot on the spot for threatening the state...

It may not be a police state yet but, I believe we are well on our way.

just a bunch of punks who all ran when the LEOs struck back....

reply to post by HomerinNC


Nah dude.. you're blind.. the leos are just cowards who rely on numbers for their intimidation tactics....

The answers are right in the video, as they have been in most videos of wrong doing by supposed occupiers... posted while salivating. The protesters in this video are screaming at the people setting the fires to stop to put them out. The scenes on the day of the general strike of a group of people attacking a Whole Foods Market were also scenes of protesters surrounding the offenders and trying to stop them.

But, you don't want to see that, you want to be right. It's all good as long as the dirty, entilist hippies look bad, right?

Originally posted by Resinveins
reply to post by HomerinNC

 

Nah dude.. you're blind.. the leos are just cowards who rely on numbers for their intimidation tactics....

It's not all LEOs, just as it isn't all occupiers.

The first cop this video shows was the guy on the bike I was referring to..turns out he IS a cop. It doesn't show the incident at the barricade though, just a couple of the cops dressed as protesters then in their uniforms.

Since I can't get it to embed




Guess I didn't embed right(first attempt at it)